The case for Savage/Dark Armor

[Sarkany]

42 minutes ago, Snarky said:

okay, Dark Armor is about Resists.  And "Faux Defence" thru Fear, Stun, To Hit Debuffs.  And Stealth...

 

Cims will shred Resists.  Unless....     Resistance is its own Resistance Debuff Resistance.  That sentence is crap.  But accurate.  It means that a Resistance of 100 (even though you cap at 90) cannot be debuffed.  Except by unresistable resistance debuffs, which are very very very damn rare.  And why you will see my Dark Armor builds "over invested" in Resistances.  Food for thought.

Ok ok ok

 

so it’s not necessarily oppressive gloom that is so critical… it’s getting your psionic resist to 110% to use as your resist debuff defense?

 

that’s why you are slotting up obsidian shield

 

also makes rune of protection even more helpful 

 

 

Edited May 11 by Sarkany

[Snarky]

Just now, Sarkany said:

Ok ok ok

 

sonits not necessarily oppressive gloom that is so critical… it’s getting your psionic resist to 110% to use as your resist debuff defense?

 

that’s why you are slotting up obsidian shield

 

also makes rune of protection even more helpful 

 

 

Oppressive Gloom is a important layer to keep minions from attacking you.  No attacks, no debuffs, no damage.  = Defense.  

 

You need 100 Resistance, not 110.  

[High_Beam]

I run it on a stalker.  Crazy too cause yesterday I ran a DiB led by Snarky.

[Sarkany]

28 minutes ago, Snarky said:

Oppressive Gloom is a important layer to keep minions from attacking you.  No attacks, no debuffs, no damage.  = Defense.  

 

You need 100 Resistance, not 110.  

Ok got it

 

next question: does the 100%+ psionic resistance help ALL resistances ignore resist debuff or is it only nullifying psionic resist debuffs with the S/L resist using its own number against resist debuffs for S/L?

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, Sarkany said:

is it only nullifying psionic resist debuffs with the S/L resist using its own number against resist debuffs for S/L?

 

this

[Sarkany]

16 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

this

Ah.

Thank you. Then OG is the key difference

[Yomo Kimyata]

21 minutes ago, Sarkany said:

Ah.

Thank you. Then OG is the key difference

 

Well, in general yes, but maybe not for ITF.  Do not forget that Cim bosses have this, which provides stun protection:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=romans.praefectus.shout_of_command&at=boss_grunt

 

[Snarky]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Well, in general yes, but maybe not for ITF.  Do not forget that Cim bosses have this, which provides stun protection:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=romans.praefectus.shout_of_command&at=boss_grunt

 

Yes. Bosses tend to be less affected. Both your fear snd stun cloaks are mag 2. They do heavy lifting with trash.  Against the bosses you rely on your heavy resists and the best heal in the game.  

[WuTang]

6 hours ago, Snarky said:

Yes. Bosses tend to be less affected. Both your fear snd stun cloaks are mag 2. They do heavy lifting with trash.  Against the bosses you rely on your heavy resists and the best heal in the game.  

 

My Dark Tanker's secondary is Energy Melee, so he stacks the stuns pretty well, but I still find that Romans are super resistant to it. I believe with the tanker ATO res proc, he's above 100% on almost all....but I still have doubts about soloing an ITF with him. I practice on the +4 Romans in Cim and the few times I've ran him through an ITF.

[Jacke]

15 hours ago, Sarkany said:

I'll run a version with Oppressive Gloom 5 slotted. Stunning all minions would reduce incoming attacks and therefore defense debuffs.

 

You need a diversity of tactics to deal with enemy mobs.  Even just the minions.  Because a single thing like Oppressive Gloom's Stun Mez can be neutralised by...ah, I see @Yomo Kimyata beat me to mentioning Cimeroran Boss Power Shout of Command (sounds like a distressed yelling grunt).

 

9 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Well, in general yes, but maybe not for ITF.  Do not forget that Cim bosses have this, which provides stun protection:

 

https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=romans.praefectus.shout_of_command&at=boss_grunt

 

In fact, it's 15s of -10.38 Mag Mez Protection (as well as +173% Resistance to Sleep).  And the Cimerorans have a lot of Bosses who use it quite often.

 

There's other mob Powers similar to Shout of Command to provide Mez Protection.  Also ones similar to the Leadership Pool.

 

So even depending on a tactics like stealth (which I have in one way or another on ALL my Toons) can be very useful in a vast amount of cases.  But when using a tool, you have to know what can be used against it.  For stealth, that's mobs with greater perception inherently or given to them by mob leaders.  Or mobs that outright ignore stealth.  It's why my main AR/Devices Blaster takes Smoke Grenade at a high Level in all 3 builds (also the only Toon for which I have multiple builds, because maintaining them is a pain), because Smoke Grenade provides -Perception which can help (but isn't a panacea) against those mobs that make stealth difficult.

 

 

[Sarkany]

I am becoming obsessed with making this thing work on a solo 8/+4 ITF. To recap:

The build can easily handle 8/+4 in other settings... but not in a solo ITF. I think the problem I'm trying to solve for are the defense and resist debuffs causing a cascading defense collapse which overwhelms dark regeneration. The build is actually close to working and can manage tanking one group at a time... but if I overdo it, BOOM, cascading defense failure due too many attacks incoming.

 

Summary of mitigating tactics:

1) High resists to ignore resist debuffs. Problem: getting S/L resistance much above 82% on this build is difficult. Solution: Rune of Protection, Ageless (debuff resist), and potentially the archmage accolade (although only up 10% of the time for one minute... still, when combined with ROP, provides 100%+ resistances for 3 minutes (fills in ROP recharge time)

2) Oppressive Gloom to stun minions and reduce incoming attacks. I think it needs 5 slots but I'm going to drop Absolute Amazement for Rope a Dope. 2 reasons: (1) the price.... I'm not sure I'm ready to invest in that set for this build just yet and (2) rope a dope provide s/l resist which is pretty important on the ITF especially when it comes to added resist debuff resist. 

 

3) Defense with to hit debuffs. I still think this is a viable approach... or at least I'd like to continue experimenting with it. New idea is to adopt @Snarky's use of Darkest Night which quite handily provides a -10% to hit debuff and -22% damage debuff in an AOE on target. Also, it auto hits. I find this way more compelling than trying to make Cloak of Fear work which has really poor accuracy and really high endurance costs. I can get Melee defense to 43.5% on a new version of the build. Add in sitting in Darkest night and perhaps it makes the difference?

 

4) Rely on stealth to avoid some fighting (although this is more about speed than defenses)

 

5) Alternative Destiny option: maybe we DO run Barrier instead of Ageless? Then we rotate: ROP, Barrier, ROP, Barrier, ROP... and can throw in an archmage on the toughest fights on the tail end of Barrier timer? The problem is that aside from something like this solo ITF adventure, barrier doesn't do much for the build... 

 

New version to test (I have 1 saved respec left!):

 

 

Edited May 12 by Sarkany

[Uncle Shags]

Another option to consider, that might feel a little strange on a tanky melee toon, is to use movement. Kind of kiting-lite. If you stand there and let them surround you and beat on you the debuffs stack up. But if you hop and shimmy, change positions, and stay on the edges of their cluster it's more manageable. If they have to move they're not hitting you. The individual debuffs don't last long. Buying a little time to let them wear off can help. 

 

I think a lot of us think of melee as "plant your feet, take the hits, and swing until they're all dead." It doesn't always have to be that way?

Edited May 12 by Uncle Shags
Damnit I hate autocorrect...

[Sarkany]

1 hour ago, Uncle Shags said:

Another option to consider, that might feel a little strange on a tanky melee toon, is to use movement. Kind of kiting-lite. If you stand there and let them surround you and beat on you the debuffs stack up. But if you hop and shimmy, change positions, and stay on the edges of their cluster it's more manageable. If they have to move they're not hitting you. The individual debuffs don't last long. Buying a little time to let them wear off can help. 

 

I think a lot of us think of melee as "plant your feet, take the hits, and swing until they're all dead." It doesn't always have to be that way?

Yeah... this is how my blaster solos ITFs. I'm going to try  this again with the above build. Perhaps OG + Darkest Night + 84% S/L resists and 43.5% melee defenses are sufficient?

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 hours ago, Jacke said:

In fact, it's 15s of -10.38 Mag Mez Protection (as well as +173% Resistance to Sleep).  And the Cimerorans have a lot of Bosses who use it quite often.

 

There's other mob Powers similar to Shout of Command to provide Mez Protection.  Also ones similar to the Leadership Pool.

 

Exactly my point!  I love running mez effects on melee alts, but soloing a +4/x8 ITF while relying on mezzing Cimerorians is a tough row to hoe.

[Sarkany]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

Exactly my point!  I love running mez effects on melee alts, but soloing a +4/x8 ITF while relying on mezzing Cimerorians is a tough row to hoe.

Rough scene! So heard in OG being of limited help on this specific use case. 

 

My problem with cloak of fear is the low accuracy (I can design a version with about a 75% accuracy on +4s... which I worry is not great... nevermind the high endurance cost)... but I do like the idea of stacking the to hit debuffs with darkest night.

 

Huh. What if I ditched both cloak of fear AND OG and instead added Dark Obliteration with a 5 slot ragnorak set with knockdown proc? Looks like the to hit debuff from it lasts 10 seconds and I can get the recharge to 11 sec without Ageless active. Accuracy is over 100% vs +4s and if I spam it, I can almost ensure -16% to hit debuff all around me, including bosses with some knockdown now and again. 

 

Still retaining the 44% melee defense with 82% S/L resist. I happen to have a ragnorak set lying around. Kinda feels like you need solid melee defense to take advantage of the to hit debuffs, no?

 

So game plan would be:

 

-sneak near group

-savage leap with proc goodness on nearest boss

-activate darkest night on nearest boss

-fire off dark obliteration

-click new boss/lt to attak

-Shred

-Rending fury

-Blood thirst (regain blood)

-dark obliteration

-Shred

-Vicious Slash

-Dark Regen if necessary

-Shred

-dark obliteration

etc

 

 

 

Edited May 12 by Sarkany

[Yomo Kimyata]

31 minutes ago, Sarkany said:

 

Huh. What if I

 Sounds like a plan.  I love the stacked mezzing of dark armor (and Darkest Night is so good it feels like cheating) but you propose a good strategy that I would consider making a specific build just for ITFs!

[Psyonico]

2 hours ago, Sarkany said:

My problem with cloak of fear is the low accuracy (I can design a version with about a 75% accuracy on +4s...

If you’re building for level 50 content, you only need to worry about +3s once you get your alpha slotted.

 

Regardless, I’d probably still go Dark Obliteration over Cloak of Fear, you get damage and .25% base extra -to-hit.  Granted, you’re likely to slot at least some -to-hit in CoF, but it probably about evens out.

 

 Just don’t forget that the -16% you’re planning on will be hit by the purple patch and against 54s will be more like 10.5%

[Sarkany]

4 hours ago, Psyonico said:

If you’re building for level 50 content, you only need to worry about +3s once you get your alpha slotted.

 

Regardless, I’d probably still go Dark Obliteration over Cloak of Fear, you get damage and .25% base extra -to-hit.  Granted, you’re likely to slot at least some -to-hit in CoF, but it probably about evens out.

 

 Just don’t forget that the -16% you’re planning on will be hit by the purple patch and against 54s will be more like 10.5%

For sure! All incarnates slots unclocked and equipped with top or next-to-top versions of each power.

 

I do need to run the patron arc, turns out.... but I'll have that done tonight

 

You know, it's the little challenges like this that keep me engaged in the game

 

EDIT: I also appreciate your Monty Python reference

Edited May 13 by Sarkany

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Sarkany said:

For sure! All incarnates slots unclocked and equipped with top or next-to-top versions of each power.

 

I do need to run the patron arc, turns out.... but I'll have that done tonight

 

You know, it's the little challenges like this that keep me engaged in the game

 

EDIT: I also appreciate your Monty Python reference

for the itf 4/8 dont forget the base buff machine.  getting the resistance buffs will help a bit, as will stocking your email with inspirations.  i have no idea how you will handle Rom.  GL

[Sarkany]

33 minutes ago, Snarky said:

for the itf 4/8 dont forget the base buff machine.  getting the resistance buffs will help a bit, as will stocking your email with inspirations.  i have no idea how you will handle Rom.  GL

Ha! fair. I could do Rom solo with my AR/nrgy blaster but that was definitely not +4. It could very well be that my damage won't be able to hack it. Let's just see if this is survivable first

 

I just completed setting up the build. I don't have much time tonight but I'll try tomorrow and report back

Edited May 13 by Sarkany

[Sarkany]

11 hours ago, Sarkany said:

Ha! fair. I could do Rom solo with my AR/nrgy blaster but that was definitely not +4. It could very well be that my damage won't be able to hack it. Let's just see if this is survivable first

 

I just completed setting up the build. I don't have much time tonight but I'll try tomorrow and report back

@Yomo Kimyata @Snarky @Psyonico

 

OK! Found small break of time to conduct a short test on the first ITF mission using the most recent build from above.

 

In short... IT WORKS!!! I can tank an entire room! Health bar bounces around, but dark regen keeps me alive. 

 

NEW PROBLEM: I don't have enough endurance to run everything. Darkest Night is power hungry! One option: dump the debuff defense version of Ageless for the +recovery version. Trying that next (because it doesn't cost a respec). My backup plan is to dump Manuevers and free up those slots for blue bar procs and recovery

EDIT: WORKS! Endurance problem solved even with the 90 sec version of Ageless. I can run this thing! The Romans are facing a new, undead god! One does need to pay close attention but as long as I don't make silly mistakes (e.g., not paying attention to green bar and miss a dark regen hit or fail to engage ROP when necessary etc) this thing sustainably works against +4/8 ITF.

 

BUT NEW PROBLEM (pt 2): The dark dwarves are stacking massive recharge debuffs on me... never noticed this before because my blaster solos this by flying.  Those debuffs prevent me from killing them.

 

Advice?

Edited May 13 by Sarkany

[Yomo Kimyata]

56 minutes ago, Sarkany said:

BUT NEW PROBLEM (pt 2): The dark dwarves are stacking massive recharge debuffs on me... never noticed this before because my blaster solos this by flying.  Those debuffs prevent me from killing them.

 

Every level 50 I run has at least 50% slow protection.  Best ways for me are to put the universal travel 20% slow protection in a travel power, and then I usually run a few sets of Winter-Os, but there are other sets as well:

 

https://homecoming.wiki/wiki/Category:Sets_that_improve_Slow_Resistance

 

[Psyonico]

On my phone, so I’m just looking at the screen shot. Looking at your build, trying to figure out how to help you with the -recharge.  First thing I noticed is that you could put the preventative medicine proc in spirit ward.  Because PM is a global that grants a proc, it works even if you don’t have the toggle running.
 

 You need to find a way to get the Winter’s Gift slow resistance IO into mystic flight.  You could potentially drop the KB IO, but that would leave you pretty low in the -kb area.

 

assuming one of those IOs in Stamina is the heal proc, you could potentially drop that one.  You may have enough global accuracy that you don’t need the kismet +to-hit IO, otherwise you’d likely have to drop one of the procs in savage leap.

[Sarkany]

5 hours ago, Psyonico said:

On my phone, so I’m just looking at the screen shot. Looking at your build, trying to figure out how to help you with the -recharge.  First thing I noticed is that you could put the preventative medicine proc in spirit ward.  Because PM is a global that grants a proc, it works even if you don’t have the toggle running.
 

 You need to find a way to get the Winter’s Gift slow resistance IO into mystic flight.  You could potentially drop the KB IO, but that would leave you pretty low in the -kb area.

 

assuming one of those IOs in Stamina is the heal proc, you could potentially drop that one.  You may have enough global accuracy that you don’t need the kismet +to-hit IO, otherwise you’d likely have to drop one of the procs in savage leap.

@Yomo Kimyata @Psyonico

 

EXACTLY THE ADVICE I NEED! Easy fixes! Will revise and test again when I have some free time!

 

I can drop a slot from Shred (costs some toxic/psi resist) to pick up the winter's gift IO. I like the fully proc'd out savage leap

 

I have the full Avalanche set slotted which is good

 

Ah! I only need 2 blistering cold slots in Boxing to get to 50% with the winter's gift IO... maybe I do need to drop that extra proc in savage leap... is 90% to hit on +4s sufficient accuracy ? That's where I land if I drop Kismet... kinda feels like I need to keep it, particularly to reliably hit Romulus. So I drop the Lethal Proc from savage leap?

 

EDIT: OK! Decision made! I'm going to drop the fun power transfer set off of Stamina and switch to a +end proc. The fun heal proc won't make or break anything vs dark regen and I'd rather have the extra lethal proc in savage leap

 

This build does end up with a massive toxic damage hole at only 39% resist (!) and a medium sized energy damage hole at 53% resist... but sacrifices must be made and the build does retain a 43.6% melee defense

Edited May 13 by Sarkany

[Sarkany]

OK! So after running that first ITF mission multiple times, I am now quite good at managing the first cave area. The build can manage that entire scene as long as one takes a bit of care in not biting off more than one can chew. In short: a pack of guys with 6 bosses is trouble if you don't eat a ton of inspirations.

 

I am still stuck, however, with all of those dark dwarf/nebula guys on the outside. This version of the build did way better on that score...  got through the first wave and then got waxed on the last wave.

 

One option: fight the first wave, kill a bunch, fly away and then return to fight them in smaller groups while letting debuffs go away. 

 

Another option: have Archmage Armor ready for the toughest fights in the ITF? I haven't grinded it out on this brute, so can't test.

 

OH! And of course I could go buy a P2W power

 

I'm not sure this is possible with Dark Armor brutes. i think the resists are just too low. Maybe a shield character (comes with defense debuff resistance) or a very high resist set (invul) would work way way way better. 

 

Sadness! I'm very confident I could handle +3 version. 

 

Still love the build and character. This is a pretty dang optimized version.

 

My next build is a BS/Shield stalker... can IT run a solo +4 ITF??? 

Edited Wednesday at 10:39 AM by Sarkany