KW Ferry - Suggestion

[Zep]

With Kallisti Warf going mainstream it just feels (to me) there should be a water (Ferry) pathway to PI and perhaps Talos. 

 

Yes, there is the Tram and the Sub, but with all the water, like going from SF to Marin, Vallejo, etc. 

[Glacier Peak]

Base Teleporter and Long Range Teleporter are options as well.

[Super Atom]

could see this being helpful for villains more than heroes tbh

[Zep]

How would villains go to PI or Talos? Just curious.

 

Or do you mean more in general like connecting to the Rogue Isles ferry system too?  That could work.

[Rudra]

1 hour ago, Zep said:

How would villains go to PI or Talos? Just curious.

They can't. Those aren't co-op zones. However, heroes can just hop on any tram in any zone and get to Kallisti Wharf. Villains have to go find one of the smuggler subs.

[Jacke]

Have to remember that Kallisti Wharf, though a Co-op Zone, is part of Paragon City.  Heroes (with Vigilantes) and Villains (with Rogues) don't fight directly, but there's Mobs that are a threat to both.  Sort of like a non-hazard version of the Rikti War Zone.

 

I think a Ferry link from Kallisti Wharf to Talos and Peregrine should be added.  As well, there should be a Arachnos Black Helicopter link to the Rogue Isles.  But not a link to the Rogue Islands Ferry line, as there are no direct ferry links between Paragon City and the Rogue Isles, as the distance is much farther and also crosses an political border where the two sides are at odds with one another.

 

 

On 7/5/2025 at 9:40 PM, Zep said:

How would villains go to PI or Talos? Just curious.

 

Or do you mean more in general like connecting to the Rogue Isles ferry system too?  That could work.

 

A Toon is limited in what Zone connections they can use based upon their current Alignment, even when there are connections.  So Villains can't use the Kallisti Wharf Tram as it only connects to Zones where they can't go.  If Kallisti Wharf has other links added, they would be similarly limited.  As well, Heroes (and Vigilantes) shouldn't be able to use Arachnos' Black Helicopters even when they can access the destination Zone, as Arachnos in general doesn't give access to them.

 

 

On 7/5/2025 at 10:51 PM, Rudra said:

However, heroes can just hop on any tram in any zone and get to Kallisti Wharf. Villains have to go find one of the smuggler subs.

 

This is sufficiently awkward for Villains without access to a SG Base with a Teleporter to Kallisti Wharf that I think an Arachnos Black Helicopter link should be added.

 

 

[Rudra]

5 hours ago, Jacke said:

On 7/5/2025 at 4:51 PM, Rudra said:

However, heroes can just hop on any tram in any zone and get to Kallisti Wharf. Villains have to go find one of the smuggler subs.

 

This is sufficiently awkward for Villains without access to a SG Base with a Teleporter to Kallisti Wharf that I think an Arachnos Black Helicopter link should be added.

Except like you said, Kallisti Wharf is part of Paragon City. And there is no way in hell Paragon City is going to let Arachnos just fly any of their Arachnos Fliers into Paragon City. Every time an Arachnos Flier makes a trip into Paragon City, it is some kind of assault or raid. So villains having to use a submarine to sneak into Kallisti Wharf from the Rogue Isles makes perfect sense.

 

Edit: Hells, none of the co-op zones give players full access from both sides. The only way for villains to get to the RWZ is with Vanguard's assistance. No Arachnos Fliers. The only way villains get to Dark Astoria is with a TUNNEL connection. Still no Arachnos Fliers. The only way for heroes to get to the Abyss is via submarine. (Edit again: Yes, I know villains take a sub to get to the Abyss too.) Each side has their co-op zones, but they are still territory held by that side. The exception is Ouroboros, which is a third party co-op zone, and even they can only be reached by using an Ouroboros portal. So any co-op is done by third party assistance or sneaking in. (Or SG base teleporters.)

 

Edited July 8 by Rudra

[lemming]

21 minutes ago, Rudra said:

Hells, none of the co-op zones give players full access from both sides.

The Black Helicopter now goes to The Hive.  Added this patch though apparently the ability was added quite some time ago, just not fully implemented.  And that is right past a lot of the city.  (Or a very circular route, but that means what sort of defenses are out there? Anything?

 

And Siren's Call is also more Blue than anything, but they still get here flying right past PI.

 

The sub is in KW, but I wouldn't add a ferry.

 

Access for KW, I'd add it via Ouro and the Tunnel systems.

 

[Rudra]

11 minutes ago, lemming said:

And Siren's Call is also more Blue than anything, but they still get here flying right past PI.

I'd argue that as a PvP zone, Siren's Call is contested territory. Regardless of whether it is more blue or red. As such, it makes sense for Arachnos to establish (and defend) an area where they can utilize their Arachnos Fliers in order to contest the area from Paragon City.

 

11 minutes ago, lemming said:

The Black Helicopter now goes to The Hive. 

WTF?! When did that happen?! (Edit: They even have a full on FOB making use of the abandoned buildings there now?!)

 

11 minutes ago, lemming said:

Access for KW, I'd add it via Ouro and the Tunnel systems.

Yeah, I can see making use of TUNNEL. Not so much Ouroboros though. As recently restored territory, Ouroboros doesn't really have any interest in fast access there. At least at this time.

 

Edited July 8 by Rudra

[lemming]

3 hours ago, Rudra said:

WTF?! When did that happen?! (Edit: They even have a full on FOB making use of the abandoned buildings there now?!)

As said, the latest page introduced it.    We'll have to get the dev in question to discuss the why and how's but the gist was that the Hive allowed villains before this page, there just wasn't a way for them to get there, however, that heliopad was already setup, just needed activating and some tweaks were needed.  Such as not having the police drones shooting rogues coming in via Eden.

 

[lemming]

Oh, and if you look at Siren's call, it's pretty much on the way to KW.    PI makes it odd, but on the other hand, redside has the north islands accessible, but as a different zone

[Rudra]

1 minute ago, lemming said:

Such as not having the police drones shooting rogues coming in via Eden.

The police drones never shot Rogues entering  the Hive.

[lemming]

18 minutes ago, Rudra said:

The police drones never shot Rogues entering  the Hive.

On live sure, but in testing they sure did.

[Rudra]

14 minutes ago, lemming said:

On live sure, but in testing they sure did.

I don't spend time in testing. So no idea what is going on there. However, I wasn't speaking about Live. I was speaking about on HC.

[lemming]

1 minute ago, Rudra said:

I don't spend time in testing. So no idea what is going on there. However, I wasn't speaking about Live. I was speaking about on HC.

HC == Current Live

[lemming]

Anyway,  looking at the map, and remembering Mayhem mission existence:

Arachnos Helicopters get access to Talos & Peregrine Island.

 

Longbow should setup a monitoring station on that point NE of Talos.

And of course, there's that matter of Arachnos in Faultline.   We're pretty sure they're running subs up that river past Talos.  (Sub nets are a known thing guys...)

 

Connections between zones only make more sense than the office building layouts in this universe.

[Rudra]

17 minutes ago, lemming said:

And of course, there's that matter of Arachnos in Faultline.   We're pretty sure they're running subs up that river past Talos.  (Sub nets are a known thing guys...)

If you want to go into the story, Arachnos was making use of subterranean waterways to access Faultline. And those waterways are found as part of going after Nocturne and Arbiter Sands. So story-wise, unless the devs want to add more such accessways to be exploited by Arachnos, that means of access can be considered shut down (post-Faultline arcs).

 

17 minutes ago, lemming said:

Arachnos Helicopters get access to Talos & Peregrine Island.

Mayhem missions give you a 15 minute window to raid Paragon City. (I've never seen the timer breach an hour, but I have seen it reach an hour.) And those mayhems are technically not constant things. (Yes, we as players can spam back to back mayhems, but story-wise, they aren't that frequent.) Even in some of the arcs where the NPCs are talking about taking an Arachnos Flier into Paragon City, like the Zig breakout where you have to free those three villains to be released into Mercy Island, it is stated that planning such a venture is a high risk endeavor and requires Arachnos (and its in-city contacts) to coordinate the raid in a window where Longbow at least will not be able to immediately respond. (Or the raid is done while Arachnos forces are fighting off Longbow so you can do the mission.) I can see Arachnos flying a low-level circuitous route to reach places no longer under Paragon City control (the Hive), but not just blithely flying into Paragon City itself without Longbow and hero support racing to oppose them. For that reason, I cannot see a Black Helicopter line going to Kallisti Wharf without Longbow and hero support descending en masse to stomp it out.

 

Edit: Hells, even Faultline can be considered contested territory since it is still technically at the start of the zone reclamation after who knows how long being abandoned territory as a hazard zone.

 

Edited July 8 by Rudra

[lemming]

I think I've said my bit and it doesn't matter much.

In anycase, we already have a sub in KW, adding a tunnel option for Blue & Red would be cool and Ouro would be very handy.  And with Ouro, hand wavium is easy

[Super Atom]

On 7/5/2025 at 3:40 PM, Zep said:

How would villains go to PI or Talos? Just curious.

 

Or do you mean more in general like connecting to the Rogue Isles ferry system too?  That could work.

 

sorry i forgot i said something on the forums

 

i meant the ferry system yeah, not them going to pi/talos. Blue's got a lot of ways there with the tram already, red could use more help. I don't oppose either idea tho for the record. 

[Zep]

Lots of interesting and good points.

 

I do wish to clarify though. When I suggest adding a Ferry to KW it is *not* because I believe it is required or needed. I have many (like most everyone playing the game) Red and Blue (and gold) toons and am well aware of the many, easy, ways to travel to/from KW.

 

I suggest and say a Ferry is needed entirely for esthetical reasons. Paragon is a Big New York/London/Tokyo/Paris/Shanghai/Dubai type city. Thus there are (or should be) suburbs, as well as other parts of the vast city itself to which both our intrepid Heroes (and the occasional dastardly villain) must travel, for sure, all the same we must not forget the many citizens and civilians that would need to move about the city on a daily basis.

 

Add to this the river, bay, delta, estuary, etc, upon which this borough (ward? district?) sits and well, how could such a touristic area (Statesman's statue and all) not have a ferry?

 

So, all in all, I call for a good sized, 'Historic' dock with multiple Ferries leading to various locations. Honestly I dont even care if they work to move characters, though it would be nice if they did. In keeping with the KW theme, Blue side could have the fancy, restored, shiny, historic Ferry Building (Like the one in San Francisco, though not filled with shops [as nice as they are]) and red side can have a beat up but well maintained and functional Ferry system rigged for open sea transport to get to/from the Rogue Isles.

 

 

[Rudra]

49 minutes ago, Zep said:

red side can have a beat up but well maintained and functional Ferry system rigged for open sea transport to get to/from the Rogue Isles.

I've already given my response(s) to this. So I'm following @lemming's example and calling it here.

 

Edit: Though if you want to capitalize on the tourist idea, adding some tourist "trolleys" (trolley-like vehicles that aren't stuck following set tracks, good examples can be seen in St. Augustine, Florida) and some tourist flights could be solid additions. Maybe some horse-drawn carriages for a slow, relaxing (, but also rather fragrant) tourist draw for the sights.

 

Edited July 9 by Rudra