Super Strength vs Street Justice

[Ultimo]

15 minutes ago, Triumphant said:

I very much doubt this is something that would be wanted, given player's frequent complaints about knockback.  But I think it would be more interesting to have a new power that is a toggle that boosts the knockback and damage by a hefty amount, but also drains a large amount of endurance to get the effect (in other words, your toon is putting a lot of effort into making the shockwave effect or whatever, which will quickly tire them).  Or something like a crashing T9 that affects this.  That way you really have to commit if you want to get that much juice out of it, and you can't just do it all the time.

Actually, I once suggested reworking Rage into a toggle with an effect similar to that.

[golstat2003]

13 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Actually, I once suggested reworking Rage into a toggle with an effect similar to that.

 

It should be a brand new power. Not replacing Rage with this.

[Ultimo]

24 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

 

It should be a brand new power. Not replacing Rage with this.

Ya, that was a bridge too far, it was just an idea I toyed with.

[icesphere]

Considering the amount of new powers devs are adding as a replacement to others (Rime vs Hoarfrost, Dark Obs vs Dark regen) I could see alternatives down the road. I also like the idea of enemies getting damage when knocked into walls, but then that may cause more annoyances in team settings. Then again, we already get annoyances with existing KB so I guess adding it for more solo play wont matter.

[Captain Citadel]

20 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Actually, I once suggested reworking Rage into a toggle with an effect similar to that.

I get wanting knockback to deal damage to make Super Strength feel more "super" but that's not how the game is designed. Even if it was somehow changed to do this (which I imagine would take tons of work and not be worth the effort) it's not how the rest of the game's combat model works. Knockback effects are not desirable because they're not conducive to crowd control. Knockdown effects are fine because they interrupt enemy attack chains without moving them out of range of the team or dispersing them away from AoE effects.

Super Strength could use a couple of changes to make it play more smoothly but it doesn't need buffs and it doesn't need more knockback.

At the absolute most, all Super Strength really needs is two things: an alternative power choice for people who don't like Rage, and an adjustment to Hurl to make it compatible with flying in the same way that Foot Stomp already is. Adding some damage to Hand Clap would be nice to have, but not strictly necessary. Hand Clap also has knockback so adding damage to it without also lowering the magnitude to knockdown would create its own problems.

We do not need a full rework of the powerset and we especially do not need more knockback. It's the kind of thing that's only really fun in a single-player game where you can't inconvenience other players because your normal attack chain just threw an enemy out of their range. This knockback change is not a good idea because it's a suggestion that would make the game more fun for you personally while making it less fun for almost everybody else, whether because they don't want more knockback in their powers or because people who don't play Super Strength would now not want to have anyone on their team using Super Strength either.

[Starhammer]

On 9/19/2025 at 7:52 AM, Shin Magmus said:

   These are the CoH forums.  Facts and logic don't belong here, only feels and vibes.

Facts and logic certainly belong, but feels and vibes are important enough they shouldn't be mocked. Without them, we're just engaging in convoluted methods of watching our computer do math.

So anyway, I largely agree with the OP's idea, though I think there's room for improvement in the implementation. Knockback needs to feel more relevant, but be less inconvenient. A built-in proc to make KB do some damage based on how much KB they suffer seems reasonable. It should not be a massive game changer, but enough to notice. More importantly though, I expect KB could feel more relevant by adding some visual effects... some scattered trash and a seismic path crack aura upon landing. Maybe even make the KB give the target a short duration AOE damage proc that only effects objects, so you can KB an enemy in a Mayhem Mission into a bunch of stuff and knock them through it. The value of this effect could be increased by making more of those destructible objects replace their scenery counterparts in normal maps. Not targetable directly, but subject to being smashed as collateral damage. Meanwhile, to mitigate KB being a pain in everyone's 5th point of contact (Let's be honest... not everyone's, mostly just melee characters, especially tanks), how about adding a Knockback Resistance infliction to taunt auras and melee attacks that do not themselves cause KB. That should reduce or eliminate the need to chase down KB'd foes. Love KB, Hate KB, or indifferent, these combined changes would give something for everyone.

I also agree I would like to see Clap do some damage... and do a lot of damage to Fires, maybe even have a chance to extinguish them outright. Again, seeing some scattering garbage effects tied to it would make it feel more relevant too.

Hurl is pretty powerful looking at the numbers, but for me it feels like it takes too long to animate to be worth the damage it does. If it were an AOE though, or at least had a part of it's damage be AOE, that might make it much more desirable. I'd love to see it have a customization option to throw random large junk like pool tables and forklifts also. Here's one more idea for Hurl... probably more coding effort than it's worth, but would be thematically appropriate: Make Hurl a toggle you can only turn on when on (or near) the ground, with a relatively small end cost, like Combat Jumping small... But that just picks up the boulder. You then get a "Hurl part 2" power that actually throws the boulder (or forklift) that is available while flying if you have the toggle active. Making any attack while toggled on, Hurl or other attack, including auto attacks but not damage auras or self only buffs/heals, will detoggle Hurl.

I think the positive effects of Rage work well enough as is, and are enjoyed by enough of the playerbase I wouldn't want to see any major changes there.... aside from just getting rid of the crash. I hate crashes on powers, usually enough I don't even want to waste a slot on the power and debuff myself during combat.

That said, I would be happy to see a mutually exclusive alternative to rage... maybe a toggle that's a hybrid of Assault & Tactics, but for self only or a smaller AoE like only 30'

EDIT: If I could rebuild Super Strength, not only would I implement changes like these, I'd borrow a bit from how Fighting was rebuilt and have each attack that you have add a buff (or an effect) to other powers in the set. Some would make the others do more damage, others would increase the chance of stun, or improve the KB/KB Damage effects of other powers. Having Foot Stomp would add the AoE to Hurl... stuff like that. Make the whole of the set more than the sum of it's powers. Might be a little OP, but feels fitting for arguably one of the most iconic super power themes in comic history dating back to Samson, Goliath, Heracles, and beyond.

Edited Tuesday at 02:42 PM by Starhammer

[Captain Citadel]

Some of this stuff might be too complicated to be practically implemented, but I like these ideas.

I think the ones I like most are a customization option for Hurl to make it throw objects the way Propel does, and an alternative power choice to Rage. Not sure if Hand Clap could be coded to damage fires specifically but that would be a cool change. I don't know if there would be huge animation problems with "Propelling Hurl" but I would expect there might be. Propel probably works so well in the first place because it's just a portal ejecting a random object, nothing really has to interact with it animation-wise.

At this point I've been unable to put Hurl in my builds for so long that I would just settle for HC doing whatever it is they need to do to make it function while flying at ground height. I keep hearing people say "oh but the DPA is bad" or whatever and I'm just like "I need a ranged attack that fits my concept, man." I hate not having a ranged attack, lol.

I love that we have Laser Beam Eyes and that HC devs even coded an animation for Energy Torrent to be a second heat vision attack. Hell, the beam rifle FX looks so cool on it that I almost wish we had that same beam for the single-target version. I just specifically set out to play a character similar to Superman but stripped of all the extra powers, so I can't use heat vision.

I wanted to be able to use him in RP, and it's easier to write situations he can't just automatically win this way. So he can't really be harmed, and he can smash things up with his fists, or carry a jumbo jet on his back, but that's about it. No X-ray vision, no breath powers, no heat vision, none of that. He can't even run at super speed. I imagine he runs about as fast as Steve Rogers. He can break the sound barrier in flight, but I'm guessing even a man-sized object moving at those speeds near buildings would have very serious and unavoidable collateral damage due to shockwaves. So he probably only uses it for high-altitude long-distance trips.

Long story short, until Hurl gets tweaked, the only "ranged attack" I have involves flying from mob to mob very quickly. 😂