Marine Affinity Brine question

[Maelwys]

Proc rate = PPM × ((Enhanced Recharge Time + Time To Activate) / (60 × Area Factor))

 

Cone Area Factor = [1 + (0.15×Radius) − (0.011×Radius×(360−Arc)/30)] × 0.75 + 0.25

On Shoal, that's [1 + (0.15×20) − (0.011×20×(360−90)/30)] × 0.75 + 0.25

=  [2.02] × 0.75 + 0.25 = 1.765

 

Which makes the activation rate of a 3.5PPM Proc in Shoal (without any local recharge) = 3.5 x ((15 + 2.17) / (60 x 1.765))

= 3.5 x (17.17/105.9) = 0.56746931067 = 56.75%

[Tankshock]

1 hour ago, Frosticus said:

Also shoal procs like garbage.

The above info is incorrect

 

Its actually 14.23% on Achilles/3.5 ppms

Do you maybe have it as a 360 attack rather than cone?

 

Bopper matches up with what Maelwys posted.

 

[Frosticus]

sorry had the wrong number in place,

but shoal is still being calculated incorrectly still.

 

Its IS a taoe, 20ft radius,15 sec base rech

30.82% chance for 3.5ppms

 

 

[Glacier Peak]

For anyone who wants to dip in further, here's a snapshot of what a Corruptor can do with a focus on -MaxHP from  stacks of Brine and Degenerative Interface. 

 

[Maelwys]

7 hours ago, Frosticus said:

sorry had the wrong number in place,

but shoal is still being calculated incorrectly still.

 

Its IS a taoe, 20ft radius,15 sec base rech

30.82% chance for 3.5ppms

 

Yes, it's a Targeted AoE, and it has 20ft radius and 15s base recharge.

But it's also only got a 90 degree arc (e.g. "Garden Hose") not a 360 degree one (e.g. "Water Balloon")

 

The reduced arc is why proc chance ends up at 56.75% rather than 30.82%.

 

 

[Maelwys]

8 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

For anyone who wants to dip in further, here's a snapshot of what a Corruptor can do with a focus on -MaxHP from  stacks of Brine and Degenerative Interface. 

 

 

Nice.

 

Might be worth highlighting that unlike Brine, Degenerative Interface's debuff value depends on the target's MaxHP rather than just inflicting the same flat value vs everything. And it's -3.5% (capping at -1000HP for AVs and GMs) per stack.

[Frosticus]

Ya, no, that's not how shoal works.

 

Run some tests, what you are saying isn't possible. It can't have an 80ft range, 20ft radius and 90 deg arc.

 

Its super apparent when you try it out that it has a low proc rate.

[Glacier Peak]

14 hours ago, Maelwys said:

 

Nice.

 

Might be worth highlighting that unlike Brine, Degenerative Interface's debuff value depends on the target's MaxHP rather than just inflicting the same flat value vs everything. And it's -3.5% (capping at -1000HP for AVs and GMs) per stack.

That's interesting! 

 

I've got mine set to do -551 MaxHP per cast on my Corruptor, so Defender numbers would be higher. Of course, no Scourge so why even play anything else! 😁

[Maelwys]

6 hours ago, Frosticus said:

It can't have an 80ft range, 20ft radius and 90 deg arc.

And yet; that's exactly how it's currently coded:

 

  

6 hours ago, Frosticus said:

Its super apparent when you try it out that it has a low proc rate.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time that a power was glitching in practice somehow, but the above is how it's set up.

I don't currently have Shoal on any of my Marine toons (because I rate Soothing Wave higher and something's got to give!) but a quick test on Brainstorm vs some trash mobs in Crey's Folly is suggesting a higher than 30.82% proc rate.





7 foes hit, 15 proc activations out of a possible 28.  53.6% Proc Activation Rate.

7 foes hit, 13 proc activations out of a possible 28.  46.4% Proc Activation Rate.

13 foes hit, 27 proc activations out of a possible 52. 51.9% Proc Activation Rate.

 

Edited Saturday at 10:47 PM by Maelwys

[tidge]

FWIW, I've found Shoal Rush to be a very reasonable source of %damage.

 

I wouldn't skip Brine, I typically have it slotted with 2x Accuracy/Healing.

[Frosticus]

I can't explain your results. Only post my own.

For clarity I'm on a defender. A different AT might be bugged?

With just 1 proc. Unedited video.

 

Over 9 spawns:

2/7, 2/12, 5/8, 2/8, 3/8, 3/12, 2/9, 3/10,  1/12

= 26.74% proc rate (close enough to the expected ~30% that I'm satisfied)

 

 

Edited yesterday at 04:11 AM by Frosticus

[Maelwys]

3 hours ago, Frosticus said:

I can't explain your results. Only post my own.

For clarity I'm on a defender. A different AT might be bugged?

 

I was on a MM, but CoDv2 is showing the same "cast time/radius/arc" setup across all of the ATs in both the UI and raw JSON code.

I know Proc rate can occasionally get a bit weird though and be very different to what a power's apparent AreaFactor is (e.g. Ground Zero's proc rate was bugged to about a quarter of what it should have been for a few weeks after i28p2).

 

FWIW, it is a bit odd that it has an Arc listed yet is flagged as a "true" Targeted AoE rather than as a ranged cone. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other powers that are the same way, even in the newer zanier powersets. It's possible that Shoal Rush was originally designed as a standard Cone at some point on Test and later changed to a TAoE and they forgot to remove it.

 

All that said... regarding the OP, I think Shoal is probably a decent pick if you don't have anywhere else to stick an Achilles Heel Proc. But I'd still consider it the most skippable power in Marine Affinity. It'd take me a lot to give up Brine, let alone Whitecap... but I'd drop Shoal in a heartbeat.

 

Edited yesterday at 07:32 AM by Maelwys

[Tankshock]

Thanks.  I get Soothing on an MM. Is it really that useful on another AT tho? What's its sell for you?

 

The ranged cone is definitely wonky.  Much harder to line up.

[Maelwys]

6 minutes ago, Tankshock said:

I get Soothing on an MM. Is it really that useful on another AT tho? What's its sell for you?

It's an uninterruptable self-and-allied-targets AoE heal.
Even leaving aside "teaming" and summonable Controller/Patron pets... there are enough escort/protect the NPC missions out there that it comes in handy.

And since it's a T1 pick, the other option is a -Def AoE... which, yes, can take a fair few procs; but there are often better places to stick an Achilles Heel -res.
 

Edited yesterday at 12:45 PM by Maelwys

[High_Beam]

Totally not skippable.

[Uun]

7 hours ago, Maelwys said:

FWIW, it is a bit odd that it has an Arc listed yet is flagged as a "true" Targeted AoE rather than as a ranged cone. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other powers that are the same way, even in the newer zanier powersets. It's possible that Shoal Rush was originally designed as a standard Cone at some point on Test and later changed to a TAoE and they forgot to remove it.

I haven't tested this, but in addition to the -def and -spd, Shoal Rush also triggers Frenzy/Rough Waters in Tide Pool. Perhaps the former is an AoE and the latter is a cone (similar to Fault in Stone Melee). 

 

I have both Shoal Rush and Soothing Wave on my Arsenal/Marine controller. I 3-slot Shoal Rush with Shield Breaker acc/rech & %dmg and Achille's Heel -res. I haven't parsed the combat logs, but my proc rate is definitely closer to the 26% calculated for a 360 degree arc than the 48% calculated for a 90 degree arc (factoring in the slotted recharge).