What's your plan when Page 3 goes Live?

[Xandyr]

With the changes to MMs on Beta, I think MMs are on the right path (now if we could only get Angel Summoning!). What's your plans when Page 3 goes Live?

  I'm looking forward to respeccing my Thugs/Empathy for sure. May even finally dust off one of my Beasts and Demons as well.

[kelika2]

Because Powerhouse said this is just a part of mastermind changes coming I wont do much.  I dont wanna rethink, rework and retest 60ish masterminds to only redo it in a few months again.  And early on I found out that mastermind secondaries are not the best for survival/defense slotting.  Slotting for melee/smash/lethal defense is a nightmare with current IO sets and whats available for a mastermind.  and the 15% aoe defense mastermind IO that only really leaves ranged defense.   but /dark, /cold, /ff are generally maxed/high anyways

 

and other oddities like necromancy.  lethal/smash, energy/neg energy, fire/cold resists.  if i slot for lethal resist they will be over resist for smashing damage and only feels like im just slotting for one thing and not really worth it in my mind.

 

new and currently leveling masterminds will be tested and played around with tho

[Maelwys]

The main thing I'm changing is ensuring that there is at least one copy of the 3x Gladiator's Armor KB Protection set bonus in each of my builds. Because Henchmen gaining passive KB protection is a big thing.

Many of my MMs had multiple copies of the Blessing of the Zephyr KB Protection IO, but as that's not a true Set Bonus it's not inheriting to henchmen and whilst the Devs have mentioned potentially reworking global IO effects, that has wider repercussions and there's currently no indication that it'll happen any time soon.

 

On a few of my builds I'm also tweaking accuracy upwards, in order to try to get the T3 and T2 henchmen at the point where they're capping their hit rate vs +4 foes with minimal tradeoffs. But getting the T1 henchmen to that point is currently a losing battle (you need Supremacy, Tactics, ED capped accuracy in the pet PLUS at least +50 Global Accuracy from set bonuses) so I'm holding out for a buff (which currently there's no firm confirmation on, but I know that multiple Devs are very aware of the issue!)

 

I'm definitely going to have to revisit ATO slotting in the future whenever they decide exactly what's happening there. And I wouldn't be surprised if the set bonus inheritance figure gets tweaked again (e.g. from 40% to 50%) post-Christmas once the Devs can face adjusting the figure on endless powers again. Again though, these are suspicions rather than anything confirmed.

 

There are lots of changes in the short-term pipeline (and not just for MMs!) including plenty of stuff which the Devs have only hinted at and are keeping firmly under wraps, even from those on Closed Beta. So the biggest advice I can give is to keep a few respecs available.

[tidge]

For my Robotics/Traps MM (which I use daily): I will probably only respec to change the order of certain powers... I have Tough and Weave that I almost never toggle on so I may as well move those to 47 and 49.

 

My 3-bot build already includes more set bonuses than many others typically suggest... I don't rely on %damage in any of the MM attacks.... so I've got a number of set bonuses that other players may not have. I chose the set bonuses to improve the MM, so those bonuses generally transfer well to the henchmen (even at 40%).

 

Each tier of henchmen is slotted somewhere north of +60% Accuracy, and I run Tactics... so the ToHit nerfs hit my full-kit less hard than other players may experience. My testing on Beta in (mostly) even-level content showed that content takes me roughly 20% (max) longer to complete, even if I don't lose henchmen. If the T1/T2 HP nerf continues to be eliminated I am less worried about survivability. I've done some testing on Live where I play typical content with only two of the three T1s, and my completion times are on the order of 20% longer... which I'm not sure is the intention of the Beta changes, but it does appear to be the outcome.

 

I can't see that there is much I can do with my slotting to improve the performance of that MM: I considered adding Assault (for more henchmen damage) but I don't really have a power I am comfortable swapping out, especially with the ToHit penalties. If the ToHit nerf is reconsidered (and I don't think it will be, because it is a mathematical argument with limited consideration) I'd swap out Tactics for Assault.

 

The MM ATO slotting changes have no effect on this build; Maintenance Drone is 6xPreventive Maintenance and thus it will ever be. If I ever franken-slot it I wouldn't be putting MM ATO pieces in it.

 

There is a slight chance that opt for slotting a different set in one of my MM attacks. I don't have any +Accuracy bonuses from purples sets so if I end up believing that the henchmen need a little more +Accuracy, I might make such a change.

[Neiska]

Continue to exploit the loopholes they missed and keep them to myself.

[tidge]

3 minutes ago, Neiska said:

Continue to exploit the loopholes they missed and keep them to myself.

 

Honestly, this is the best strategy. 

 

My personal assessment of the fraction of things folks complain about (for MMs) are 80% addressable by choices (power selection, slotting, playstyles),, 19% by adjusting expectations, with 1% (or less) in the category of something that absolutely effects performance, but at a near-trivial level.

 

I don't think anyone cares if my level 50 MM takes 20% longer to finished a x8 mission on Beta, because the changes are motivated by a hypothetical concern about MM players suffering in +3 (or higher) content. MM's already can play Incarnate content at +3 with no henchmen level shift, so it is a legitimate head-scratcher why eliminating the level shift in non-Incarnate content was seen requiring henchmen nerfs.

 

The set bonuses for henchs... that's nice, but it feels like being offered a kiss on the cheek after a slap to the face. At least offer a little bit of tongue!

[Neiska]

1 minute ago, tidge said:

The set bonuses for henchs... that's nice, but it feels like being offered a kiss on the cheek after a slap to the face. At least offer a little bit of tongue!

 

So far my take is - "Last big MM update we didn't break them enough, so we have made MMs 40% more convoluted, 20% more difficult to level, but to compensate we made them 10% better at this very small and niche part of the game that the majority of players don't do."

 

Nerf pet damage in order to give them the level shift. Reduced hit points. Seems to me they want to prop up secondaries that don't buff/heal the pets. Those of us who like to build/play defensively with the tankiest pets and mm possible to solo awesome things, this feels like a big middle finger. And at this point I have absolutely no faith in them making MMs "better," because from where I sit essentially the last 2 years of MM changes have made them weaker.

 

TLDR - "The Nerfs shall continue until you play the way we want with the power combinations we want. Want to do something else or do a different activity? F you. Double nerf for you in particular."

[Uun]

I'm not planning any respecs. I will make slotting changes to the upgrade powers now that they accept something other than endred and recharge. There are a few other minor changes required to powers that no longer accept the slotting I have. 

[tidge]

I'm not as sour on the proposed changes, and I'm sensitive that TPTB are focusing on some balance areas... but my general sense is that the parts of the game that are being considered exhibiting tunnel vision. In particular, there are some rationales tossed about "but better for MMs below level 22, and btw can we get some pylon tests or +5 content tests?" I'm not surprised about the tunnel vision, we had a crazy amount of rethink/rejiggering of Tanks because solo 50+ Tankers could finish some x8 content on average ~10 seconds faster than a Brute could finish. Heaven help us if a MM posted times close to those!

 

A simple example (hypothetical on my part)...

 

Thesis: Eliminate the level shift for (multiple) henchmen

Outcomes: Henchmen are not as easily hit by the level foes being faced by the MM, and they no longer have -ToHit adjustments due to level shift

 

Simple adjustment 1: reduce henchmen HP.

Unintended consequence 1: This was recognized as being somewhat out of alignment with how players actually USE henchmen, which is primarily in Bodyguard mode.

 

Simple adjustment 2: reduce henchmen base ToHit and damage

Unintended Consequence 2: Against level-less it is a big loss, against up to +3, toHit is something of a wash, but when the henches do hit they do less.... so obvious performance hit.

 

I understand... TPTB don't want MMs cakewalking through certain content, even if it is well recognized that some other ATs can do exactly that.

 

Writing only for myself: despite playing a MM every day, I don't think I'll ever roll up another MM. Most of it has to do with a general lack of variety when it comes to character theme. How many more Master/Mistress/Boss of _____ does the game need? When the Clowns are released... sure that would be funny, but I'd still have to play it, and MMs can be tedious to play, and not because of the "level shift". There is a small part of my mind  that looks at new secondaries and wonders how OP I could make them... but again, I'd have to PLAY them and having/measuring OP characters doesn't really appeal to me.

 

 

 

 

[TooManyButtons]

I probably won't be putting any ATOs in powers that aren't either attacks or pets, the slots just aren't there for me. If they made it so that all power sets had one power that could potentially serve as a mule for pet power passives, I'd be much more positive, but as it is some power sets continue to be harder to build.