+0

[VPrime]

So I play the 1-50 game on +0 diff.

 

Am I to understand that Masterminds are now even worse at completing +0 difficulty missions?

[Arbegla]

There's some math posted in the focus feedback forums about this very thing, but it really depends on how you view 'worse'.

 

Your T1 and T2s are going to do slightly (between 10% and 20% less) damage to +0s, but they are going to be between 15 and 30% more survivable due to the purple patch no longer affecting them as badly as it did before the patch. @Maelwys did some amazing spreadsheet work to work out exactly how things are now with the changes.

 

Edited to clarify information about the purple patch.

Edited December 4 by Arbegla

[Crysis]

By almost every experienced MM players definition, yes, in fact, at +0 you are going to worse than you’ve ever done before.  

 

In particular, if in the past you were already building for offense and had henchmen sturdy enough to solo +4/x8 while keeping them pretty much full time Aggressive/Follow, you will most assuredly notice that you now solo +0 -objectively worse- than you ever did before.  Then again, you were doing +4/x8 so…..sort of a straw man argument.

 

 

[Neiska]

1 hour ago, VPrime said:

So I play the 1-50 game on +0 diff.

 

Am I to understand that Masterminds are now even worse at completing +0 difficulty missions?

 

I feel this is appropriate for this context. 

 

[Maelwys]

1 hour ago, VPrime said:

Am I to understand that Masterminds are now even worse at completing +0 difficulty missions?

Vs +0s; Your T1 and T2 henchmen will both deal a little less damage than before vs even-level foes.
But they'll also be considerably more survivable vs those same foes. 
The T3 henchmen and the Mastermind themselves are unchanged.

That said... if you were intentionally fighting +0s because you typically struggle vs higher-level foes? Perhaps try fighting higher-level foes.
Vs +1s; your T1/T2 henchmen will only be dealing very slightly less damage; but still be more survivable.
Vs +2s; your T1/T2 henchmen will deal exactly the same damage as before, but still be more survivable.
Vs anything over +2; they'll deal more damage and be more survivable.
 

 

[ElectricKnight]

Yeah, I think the "considerably more survivable" is getting overlooked.  I mean, I'll find out when I log in, but I suspect my MM will be better than before.  Those -2 and -1 levels really have an affect, so even level pets should be nice.  And if the tweaks to damage feel too bad, I'd hope they'll tweak it.

[tidge]

18 hours ago, ElectricKnight said:

Yeah, I think the "considerably more survivable" is getting overlooked.  I mean, I'll find out when I log in, but I suspect my MM will be better than before.  Those -2 and -1 levels really have an affect, so even level pets should be nice.  And if the tweaks to damage feel too bad, I'd hope they'll tweak it.

 

I have some comments on "considerably more survivable".

 

Because of the (previous, negative) level shift outside of Incarnate content... T1 and T2 henchmen were more likely to be hit by enemies that were even level with the MM (and T3). If the player had previously accounted for the level shift and had capped the henchmen defenses for certain content, the new changes haven't really improved survivability.

 

Imagine if we gave all blasters a +3 bump in all defenses, but cut back damage by 3%... all Blasters would become "more survivable", but some wouldn't become "considerably more survivable."

 

The sky isn't falling... but +0x8 content does take longer, per my tests. 

 

Against level-less enemies... the T3 and T2 don't have a net change in how often they get hit, but when they are hit they are hit harder, and they hit back less often then before. Against this sort of content, it is more fair to say that they are "less survivable"... but this might be considered niche enough that TPTB don't care. I doubt most players would even notice, I expect when zone Invasions start up folks may notice their henchmen dying sooner but maybe not.

 

 

[Arbegla]

7 minutes ago, tidge said:

\

Against level-less enemies... the T3 and T2 don't have a net change in how often they get hit, but when they are hit they are hit harder, and they hit back less often then before. Against this sort of content, it is more fair to say that they are "less survivable"... but this might be considered niche enough that TPTB don't care. I doubt most players would even notice, I expect when zone Invasions start up folks may notice their henchmen dying sooner but maybe not.

 

I tested some level-less content after the patch (specifically GM solo-ing) and while I hadn't previously took on that specific GM before (P.E.A.C.E Keeper) I did notice my pets (T1 and T2) getting one shot more so then 'normal'. Granted, the PEACE Keeper also one shot my acid mortars, so that was an entirely new experience having those pets (which normally don't die, just time out) get destroyed too.

 

Maybe it was just the GM in question, so I'll have to see how Nemesis/Rikti/Zombies go once there is an invasion of them and people stick around long enough to form up a group. 1v1 'invasion' content is pretty easy to handle.

[Maelwys]

Whenever the T1/T2 MaxHP reduction was in effect, they were indeed taking more (proportional) damage from levelless enemies.
But that was reverted and didn't make it to Live, so it should be exactly the same as before (unless you've +HP/+resistance set bonuses in which case they'll be taking less...)

However they'll take anything up to 18% less damage from levelled enemies; and being able to withstand "more punishment" = "more survivable" (to me anyway!)

If you don't have heals/regeneration/etc to top up their health bars, there's an argument to be made that reducing their damage output reduces their survivability (because they can't kill stuff faster than stuff can kill them!) but given that's not true vs +2s and above, IMO it's hardly a huge issue. MM performance vs low-conning foes isn't exactly poor.
 

Edited November 26 by Maelwys

[tjknight]

21 hours ago, Maelwys said:

Vs +0s; Your T1 and T2 henchmen will both deal a little less damage than before vs even-level foes.
But they'll also be considerably more survivable vs those same foes. 
The T3 henchmen and the Mastermind themselves are unchanged.

That said... if you were intentionally fighting +0s because you typically struggle vs higher-level foes? Perhaps try fighting higher-level foes.
Vs +1s; your T1/T2 henchmen will only be dealing very slightly less damage; but still be more survivable.
Vs +2s; your T1/T2 henchmen will deal exactly the same damage as before, but still be more survivable.
Vs anything over +2; they'll deal more damage and be more survivable.
 

 

 

The post above sums it up perfectly. I've found my weaker Masterminds are much more enjoyable to play. I'm re-summoning my pets less often and can keep up with teammates in TF's and regular missions. I realize I'm in the minority here, but that's been my experience. My Masterminds are doing well and seem to be handling missions more smoothly. And I'll add that +0 is a cakewalk for Masterminds now, an absolute breeze. *ducks and hides*

[tidge]

10 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

If you don't have heals/regeneration/etc to top up their health bars, there's an argument to be made that reducing their damage output reduces their survivability (because they can't kill stuff faster than stuff can kill them!) but given that's not true vs +2s and above, IMO it's hardly a huge issue.

 

I consider the current stuff on Live to be something of a wash... but you can't have it both ways: (a) It's not a big deal that solo +0x8 takes longer and (b) vs >+2x8 solo MMs do better.

 

I didn't play MM solo against +3 content... not because my MM couldn't survive, it was because my MMs take too long to finish that content.... and not entirely due to the level shifts, The fact that the T1 and T2 need less net +Accuracy to fight >+2 enemies is true... but it isn't practical, at least not for me. I can't even bring myself to believe this without some sort of statement like "the game is balanced around +2 for solo play". I used to regularly take my MM through +3 content... just not solo.

 

Maybe I'm the niche player by soloing GMs and content at +0/+1x8... but since that is the content I play all the time... It was easy for me to test in on Beta.... and it does take longer to do these things. It's not necessarily harder... just longer.

[Arbegla]

One thing to consider is that +0 to you USED to be +2 to your T1s, and +1 to your T2s, but now its even level across the board. So, +0 to you is now +0 to all your pets.

This makes the math kind of finicky but as others have stated, its about the same damage wise, and BETTER survivability.  

[tidge]

29 minutes ago, Arbegla said:

One thing to consider is that +0 to you USED to be +2 to your T1s, and +1 to your T2s, but now its even level across the board. So, +0 to you is now +0 to all your pets.

This makes the math kind of finicky but as others have stated, its about the same damage wise, and BETTER survivability.  

 

This is true... except against leveless enemies, a level 50 MM had the T2 facing level 49s, and T1s were facing level 48s. Now the T1 and T2 are facing level 50s, but with lower base chances ToHit. The level-less have the same chance to hit as before, but now they hit like level 50s.

 

[Maelwys]

2 hours ago, tidge said:

you can't have it both ways: (a) It's not a big deal that solo +0x8 takes longer and (b) vs >+2x8 solo MMs do better.

...

Maybe I'm the niche player by soloing GMs and content at +0/+1x8

 

I remember levelling my first MM, a Bots/Dark circa i7. Back then you could only select up to +2 difficulty (Relentless), and they were comfortably able to do so by the time they were able to purchase SOs. Although I did have to occasionally drop the difficulty to downgrade Archvillains to EBs. It may have helped that back then Bots had considerably higher AoE damage than they do now, and setting the difficulty higher got you much larger spawns.

 

Since then, I've levelled a pretty large number of MMs, although I very much prefer the Ranged primaries. I found Demons on Live one of the toughest to handle, purely because they didn't leash properly back then and very much resisted my attempts at micromanagement.

I do tend to start out fighting even levels until level 12 ish (which is typically my "might as well swap to SOs now" threshold) but after that I'll normally only bother setting the difficulty below +2 whenever I'm trying to get my "defeat X mobs" badges or if I've disabled Exp gain (in order to complete more contact arcs) because otherwise I find it rather boring. And the main reason I don't set it higher than +2 is because whenever I'm fighting mobs that are +2/+3 to my MM, my T1 and T2 henchmen (until now!) really suffer. 

 

I am however keenly aware that some players prefer having the game set to "easy mode", including those who prefer playing suboptimal builds or are physically unable to react particularly quickly... and I expect that in those cases having your henchmen survive for longer might be a reasonable trade for them requiring a few more attacks to defeat things. Therefore in my mind it's really only the players who have the capability to play at higher difficulties but choose to run at +0 (especially if they're built well enough to never be in any danger of their henchmen dying) who are actually going to be inconvenienced by the changes... but even then, we've had multiple examples of people simply not seeing any noteworthy difference in clear times. So I'm definitely leaning towards the Devs having found a reasonable balance for establishing the new baseline performance.

 

Soloing GMs though, I'll 100% accept that's taken a noteworthy performance hit. However those characters tend to not really be hurting for performance in the first place (AFAIK MMs were and still are the strongest AT for soloing GMs. Illusion Controllers and Crabberminds can dish out a lot of damage too, but they both have issues focusing their pets attention onto a specific target and the latter has a much harder time keeping their pets alive).

 

And as mentioned previously... there are further changes due shortly. Not Soon^TM but soon.

 

 

[tidge]

1 minute ago, Maelwys said:

Therefore in my mind it's really only the players who have the capability to play at higher difficulties but choose to run at +0 (especially if they're built well enough to never be in any danger of their henchmen dying) who are actually going to be inconvenienced by the changes... but even then, we've had multiple examples of people simply not seeing any noteworthy difference in clear times. So I'm definitely leaning towards the Devs having found a reasonable balance for establishing the new baseline performance.

 

This is me... on both counts: I prefer "even level" solo (not just for MMs) because I've done elevated difficulty as proof-of-concept, but I find it boring. I can also 'survive' whatever content.... although Lusca is now firmly in the category of difficult and boring to solo, so I'm not ashamed to admit that she was just boring to solo before.

 

IPerhaps it was just my (lack of?) reading comprehension... but on Open Beta I didn't see many people posting time differences. I posted mine for GMs, for Tips @ 50 and some Incarnate content. And mine was only for a single MM.

 

8 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Soloing GMs though, I'll 100% accept that's taken a noteworthy performance hit. However those characters tend to not really be hurting for performance in the first place (AFAIK MMs were and still are the strongest AT for soloing GMs. Illusion Controllers and Crabberminds can dish out a lot of damage too, but they both have issues focusing their pets attention onto a specific target and the latter has a much harder time keeping their pets alive).

 

And as mentioned previously... there are further changes due shortly. Not Soon^TM but soon.

 

I'm not salty about the changes... but because of the level-less effects, they hit *me* in what I do most with my solo MM. I can believe that the Devs would prefer no one be able to solo a Giant Monster... but that appears to have simply pushed people towards multi-boxing them... with some irony is that it is both easier and more rewarding to multi-box GMs.

 

The current round of changes don't seem particularly inspiring to get more people to play MMs... as @Maelwys notes... there is no shortage of suboptimal builds and playstyles, and eventually that catches up with the enjoyment. It will be new primaries that drive the real excitement.

[Neiska]

8 minutes ago, tidge said:

I'm not salty about the changes... but because of the level-less effects, they hit *me* in what I do most with my solo MM. I can believe that the Devs would prefer no one be able to solo a Giant Monster... but that appears to have simply pushed people towards multi-boxing them... with some irony is that it is both easier and more rewarding to multi-box GMs.

 

Don't worry hon, I gotchu! I'll be salty enough for both of us. 😆

[Maelwys]

17 minutes ago, tidge said:

IPerhaps it was just my (lack of?) reading comprehension... but on Open Beta I didn't see many people posting time differences. I posted mine for GMs, for Tips @ 50 and some Incarnate content. And mine was only for a single MM.

 

On the OB thread, Bionic Flea did some pylon/dummy runs before the Proc fixes (though didn't use procs apparently!) and I did some after myself.
There were a few others from Glacier Peak etc. too.
Although the bulk of it was in the discord, BRadical in particular did a ton of them for all primaries. Macskull even produced a "Pet DPS Analyser" tool.

However leaving times aside... there were apparently quite a lot of people in the OB Feedback thread who actually took the time to test the performance differences between Live and Test. But there were hardly any who had completely negative experiences. TJKnight found it better. JAMMan0000 encountered slower performance vs +4 mobs, but then realised that it was down to +5 enemies spawning where they hadn't before. Catalyze found it tougher to survive at lower levels before the HP reductions were reverted, but afterwards couldn't perceive any performance difference. Decaying Rose found the performance levels similar.
Don't get me wrong - some people were certainly complaining and (rightfully!) pointing out that T1/T2 henchmen damage output had decreased in specific circumstances... but it just didn't seem to be a particularly big deal for those players who actually tested it; outside of leveless Pylon/GM fights. I was pleasantly surprised.

FWIW, on the Closed Beta feedback thread there were only a few pylon/dummy times posted. There was however a lot more complaining; but most of it was directed at the rather unbalanced methods that were being experimented with to try to artificially reduce the now-even-level T1/T2 henchmens' survivability (before they finally settled on reducing their HP, which is the implementation that made it to Open Beta before getting dropped entirely). I'm not sure if we're allowed to mention the specifics of any now-defunct Closed Beta experiments... but suffice to say that it utterly sucked for Sonic Resonance, Thermal and Elec MMs; and was largely ignored by everyone else. And thankfully all the negative-but-well-reasoned-and-constructive feedback worked and the devs tossed it.

[Warlawk]

On 11/25/2025 at 11:30 AM, Arbegla said:

Your T1 and T2s are going to do slightly (between 10% and 20% less) damage to +0s, but they are going to be between 15 and 30% more survivable due to the purple patch no longer affecting them. 

Please don't spread misinformation. 

Previously the purple patch punished T1 and T2 henchman disproportionately because they were lower level than the MM.
Now the purple patch affects them the same way it affects the MM or any other player of that level.
In no way shape or form are they unaffected by the purple patch.

[Arbegla]

14 hours ago, Warlawk said:

Please don't spread misinformation. 

I edited my post to reflect that the purple patch still affects the pets, but just not as much as it did before. Thank you for the clarification.

[Runaway]

For my latest mastermind (robotics kinetics), I think 0 or +1 would have been the proper balance point to keep things more or less the same compared to before the patch. 

 

• I started before the mastermind before the patch, not knowing that it was coming. At level 12 (IOs) I could go +1/4. Early masterminds are strong.
• At level 26 I went +1/8 and in the next fight I went "hold up, wait a minute, something ain't right", after which I went reading and discovered that robotics was no longer good at aoe, so I went back to +1/5.
• When I was about level 30 the patch went life. Early 30s were rough, probably mostly because of the more dangerous enemies compared to below 30, but losing a tiny bit of my damage didn't help either. I did a full respec and still fell back to 0/4 (on a character with full IOs this is low imo).
• Once I got fireball I could go 0/6.
• At level 50 with the fireball setup I had a survivability issue. So I respecced to a more defensive epic + added purples + superior sets. I was now more tanky, but lacked clearspeed again, so I stayed with 0/6. 
• After getting incarnates to tier 3, I could do 1/8 or 2/8 against most enemy types without it being too much of a slog (my personal comfort zone). T3 incarnates made a much bigger difference than for my previous char (a fortunata), but imo that's because of the weakness of the primary. Even with incarnates, clear speed is still several times slower than with the fortunata, but I find it fun to play.

 

This was on a fully equipped mastermind funded by money transfers from other characters, with powers fully slotted at all levels past level 12. Exclusively solo play till level 45 or so.

 

Imo, when it comes to the numbers, the biggest clearspeed issue of robotics isn't damage per hit, but the lack of consistent aoe damage.

That's if everything works, if the pet AI or collision detection goes haywire, there's no dps left obviously. Pets getting stuck or getting the zoomies are very annoying.

[Maelwys]

FWIW, my Bot/Kin/Flame's sweet spot prior to the Patch was +3/x8.
Currently on Live it's +4x8.
On Open Beta it's +5x8.

"Lack of consistent AoE damage" is something I never encounter; but I will say that IME Bots (like all ranged pets) really needs a fair bit of practice and a decent keybind/macros setup before you attain efficient pet positioning... unless you're on an outdoor map with a high ceiling and leveraging Group Fly (in which case, it's cruise-control).
 

[Runaway]

Imo rebalance decisions like this should at least in part be based on in game statistics. To measure is to know, and once you've got the knowledge, then you can make informed decisions. But in the absence of proper statistics, collecting anecdotal information is still a lot better than just making assumptions.

 

@Maelwys I think that you're overestimating the complexity of binds. The possible commands are all well documented on the wiki and combining them into practical binds isn't difficult. So assuming that I'm able to make binds, what's the secret for good robot positioning for consistent pack clear speed?

[Maelwys]

4 hours ago, Runaway said:

@Maelwys I think that you're overestimating the complexity of binds. The possible commands are all well documented on the wiki and combining them into practical binds isn't difficult. So assuming that I'm able to make binds, what's the secret for good robot positioning for consistent pack clear speed?

I mention my default MM bind setup here -->

On Kinetics, the main consideration for positioning is Fulcrum Shift and Transfusion.

Fulcrum Shift has two +damage components - buff and buffself. The latter is a flat +30% boost, but the former stacks up to 10 times (for +150% total) depending on how many hostile targets are within 30ft of your selected target. In order to get the most benefit of both of these effects, you'll need to:
(i) Target a pack of at least 10 tightly clustered mobs (they all need to be within 30ft of the main target)
(ii) Have any allies (including pets) you want to be affected by the +damage buff ce standing within 20ft of ALL THOSE MOBS. 

Transfusion is a foe-centered heal; and you want any allies to be standing within 20ft of the target.

This means you'll be issuing a lot of GOTO commands in order to constantly have your Ranged henchmen standing more-or-less in melee range of a big cluster of mobs.

- - - - - - - - - -

IMO the most optimal combination versus "unthreatening" mobs (read: anything up to +3) is to leave the T3 pet in Aggressive mode, stick the rest into Defensive, then issue a straight "GOTO" command (with no Aggressive/Defensive/Passive stance riders) to ALL PETS to tell them to move next to the new batch of enemies and AS THEY ARE RUNNING IN, issue an "Attack" command to the T3; then leap in and trigger a Fulcrum Shift just as they all arrive.
Since your Henchmen will be running fairly quickly (you're speedboosting them, right?) this will result in all the pets getting into the correct position just as you jump in and trigger the Fulcrum Shift. Your T3 will open up with a ST attack; drawing initial aggro; then Fulcrum's buff will kick in before they launch their Swarm Missiles and Incendiary Swarm Missiles. The T1 and T2 pets will take an additional second or two for their AI to catch up and start blasting (as they're in Defensive Stance and have not yet been issued an attack command) so they also get the benefit of Fulcrum Shift.

Versus "threatening" mobs you can lead off with a CC ability or even a preemptive Transfusion - IME it's fine to draw aggro whenever you have 6 henchmen protecting you with Bodyguard mode; even if you're not rocking an Epic +Resistance shield like Charged Armor (although I typically prefer going Fire Mastery than Mu; personally!).

Activating Fulcrum on cooldown typically means you're having to juggle the above once every ~20s.
I typically keep 2-3 Siphon Speeds and 3-4 Siphon Powers Active out of habit too; plus Speedboost and Increase Density.

The pets (if slotted effectively - and remember to stick an Explosive Strike in both the T1 and T3) will be churning out very decent AoE coverage by themselves assuming that you can keep things in the Assbot's Burn Patches and the T1 pet's Full Auto arcs. But you can add some very nice additional AoE damage from the MM themselves via procbombed AoEs such as Photon Grenade plus Fireball/Bonfire or Thunderstrike/ElecFences.

- - - - - - - - - -

Survivability really isn't a huge concern for the henchmen. Kinetics is bad at survivability, but Robotics excels at it. That's why a Bot/Kin is my favourite type of Kin.
 
The Bots' own damage resistance and mez protection spread also stack very nicely with Increase Density; so you typically end up with your Henchmen at the Damage Cap, Defensive Softcap; and most of the way to the Resistance caps for everything except Fire; Negative and Toxic. Below is an example from before Set Bonus inheritance.

 


The two regular "+5% def" Aura IOs plus ED-capped Maneuvers (+4.1%) is sufficient to reach the regular 45% softcap if you're leveraging Protector Bot Bubbles properly.




Finally... Group Fly.

Mercs and Bots both benefit a lot from taking Group Fly on outdoor maps; because it allows the pets to successfully "move around" targets on their first try whenever you're getting them to shift position for Fulcrums... and with Kinetics' Speed Boost it's very zippy even unslotted. Plus, you can make the pets hover ~10-15ft up just out of melee range which means they take less damage and are kept out of the way of any teammates (just make sure your teammates remember to visit Null the Gull to stop Group Fly from affecting them!) - it's technically possible to place a GOTO location 10-15 feet in the air; but the UI doesn't exactly make doing so straightforward and sometimes it's easier to just keep the non-T3 pets on "follow" and float there yourself.

When it all comes together though? It's very much worth it. The T3s and T2s are near the ground spamming Missiles and Grenades, the T1s are floating 15ft in the air perfectly lined up for Full Autos, you're in-between spamming Kinetics fluff, CC abilities and procbombed AoEs, you're all at the damage cap, and everything else is on fire. 👨‍🍳 💋
 

Edited December 13 by Maelwys

[Runaway]

Thanks for taking the time for that expansive answer.

 

When possible I drop in from above with the bots on follow: me in the pack + the bots hovering above us on defensive, which seemed to give me the most consistent results (ease of use + safety + damage). When approaching at ground level, I do similar as you (goto and time it), but with differences in the details (goto defensive instead of just goto, and my assault and t1 are on defensive until I give an attack order). I think my fulcrum stacking is already about as good as I can get it without fold space. I miss decent personal aoe, but I intent to go back to fireball with my next respec. Without that personal aoe, against /8 the bots still feel very sluggish, loads of noise and lights, but the damage spread is poor and inconsistent in my experience. I have some build gains left to make, and I can try your goto+assault strategy, but fundamentally we're not commanding our bots that differently I think: the bots are moved next to the pack and only let loose their attacks once fulcrum is refreshed. Having the assault and the assault alone attack something in the middle of the pack might help a lot. But I do suspect that the biggest difference is in our reference frame and expectations, whereby I'm comparing to my previous character who probably happens to have really good aoe + how I perceived robotics many years ago. I can't remember how my own more recent ("only" 3 years ;)) thugs mastermind played, so I can't use it as a point of reference.

 

I do have 1 more question: how did you get force shield to ~31%? I think the base is 13%, so I'm mystified.

[Maelwys]

8 hours ago, Runaway said:

I think my fulcrum stacking is already about as good as I can get it without fold space. I miss decent personal aoe, but I intent to go back to fireball with my next respec. Without that personal aoe, against /8 the bots still feel very sluggish, loads of noise and lights, but the damage spread is poor and inconsistent in my experience. I have some build gains left to make, and I can try your goto+assault strategy, but fundamentally we're not commanding our bots that differently I think: the bots are moved next to the pack and only let loose their attacks once fulcrum is refreshed. Having the assault and the assault alone attack something in the middle of the pack might help a lot. But I do suspect that the biggest difference is in our reference frame and expectations, whereby I'm comparing to my previous character who probably happens to have really good aoe + how I perceived robotics many years ago.

Prior to the Robotics rework in i27p5 (October 2022) the vast majority of their AoE damage potential came from Assault bot Incendiary Swarm Missile's Burn Patches.

Originally these Missiles were a 20ft radius AoE with a target cap of 16; then a separate 'Burn' patch Pseudopet spawned underneath each target affected which continually applied tick damage in an 8ft radius with a target cap of 5. If you bunched up lots of mobs you could get 16 overlapping burn patches in a very tight area all dealing damage simultaneously; and due to the nature of the "ticks" as the lower-HP minions died off the damage got concentrated onto the higher-HP bosses (the stacking damage peaked vs 5 targets but could spread out over anything up to 80 targets).
The main headaches were (i) The henchmen had multiple abilities which inflicted knockBACK; and could punt mobs out of the Burn Patches (ii) Things in the patches tended to try to run away. Both these issues could be partially mitigated by taking an Epic immobilize that applied -KB protection like Electrifying Fences.

After the i27p5 change the Incendiary Swarm Missiles were reduced to a 10ft radius AoE with a target cap of 10, and the Burn Patches were reduced to a target cap of 3; cutting their peak effectiveness by 62.5%. Overlapping damage is STILL POSSIBLE but the runaway mob melting is not as fun/mad as it was previously.
The Silver lining is that Battle Drone and Protector Bot damage also increased to compensate; and abilities that were previously a net loss in DPA (like the 1st upgrade on T3 henchmen granting access to Flamethrower) got addressed. And all their KnockBACK abilities except for the T3's regular Swarm Missiles got converted into KnockDOWN. However currently Robotics baseline AoE damage is still much lower than it was previously. So you need to work more for it.

That means ensuring the pets don't mull around for 2-3 seconds acquiring targets at the start of each new mob (Do not repeatedly shift pets from Defensive to Aggressive or vice-versa, since every time you change their AI mode they take a second or two to "reset". However issuing "Attack this Target" commands has no lag and are fine).

And getting the T1s lined up properly for their Full Autos (it's only a 15 degree cone so the further back they engage the better).

And slotting procs appropriately (you want an Explosive Strike in the T1 and T3; and a KB>KD IO in the T3 to stop its regular Swarm Missiles punting things out of the Burn Patches. On non-Kin MMs you also want a Soulbound Allegiance Proc in the T1 pets for +damage. On Kin MMs it's typically only useful there for +ToHit).

And using Assault Radial Hybrid (the DoubleHit Proc is beneficial when you're at the damage cap, unlike the +Damage from Core or Support Hybrid).

And ensuring that the T1 and T2 pets have sufficient Accuracy and ToHit to cap their hit rate vs whatever level of mobs you're fighting (see this thread).

And using non-henchmen AoE attacks to supplement your pets damage (Bonfire with a KB>KD IO in it is far less useful for stopping foes running out of the Burn patches these days, but with sufficient Accuracy slotting it's still reasonably useful for damage alongside procbombed Fireball. Procbombed Elec Fences and Thunderstrike have better raw damage but don't scale quite as well whenever you're fighting >16 mobs simultaneously).
For /Kins in particular, -res debuffs are your best friend. Corrosive Vial takes Achilles' Heel. Thunder Strike takes Fury of the Gladiator. Elec Fences + Fireball take Annihilation.

Other Incarnate choices can have a noteworthy impact too - Lore Pet selection (BP are best for most ATs for damage, but Pet ATs can benefit more from Talons) and Interface Proc selection (Reactive Radial vs anything under an AV, Degenerative Radial at AV and above) and Judgement selection (Pyro for Damage, Void for survivability).

  

8 hours ago, Runaway said:

I do have 1 more question: how did you get force shield to ~31%? I think the base is 13%, so I'm mystified.

13% x (1.00 [Base] + 0.55 [Slotting] + 0.8 [T4 Radial Clarion]) = 30.55%
You can technically go even higher with a +Def T4 Alpha Slot if you're Kinetics since Musculature won't do very much for you.
 

 

Edited December 14 by Maelwys