Converting IOs - in set vs out of set

[Griffin]

Can someone explain the settings in the conversion window? I have read some of the guides on here several times and when I think I understand it I still get outcomes I’m not expecting. 

 

In set - is this within the specific set that the IO currently is? So if I have a thunder strike, it will concert to a different thunder strike? Or does it convert to a different ranged damage set?

 

out of set - I can probably answer this one if I understand the first. I thought this mean out of the type of set. So if I have a PBAOE IO and concert with setting I could end up with basically anything else?

[Yomo Kimyata]

In set, costing 3 converters, converts to a random IO within the same set.  Anything except for the one you start with.  So yes, it will convert to a different Thunderstrike, with a 20% chance of getting any one of the other five.

 

In category (you have to select this from the pull down menu), costing 2 converters, converts to a random IO of the level you started with in the same category but of a different set.  For example, a Doctored Wounds can convert to a Miracle, but not to another Doctored Wounds.

 

By rarity, costing 1 converter, converts to a random IO at the same level but of a different set.  

 

Hope this helps!  If there are any follow up questions, have at it!

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yomo Kimyata

[Griffin]

45 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

In set, costing 3 converters, converts to a random IO within the same set.  Anything except for the one you start with.  So yes, it will convert to a different Thunderstrike, with a 20% chance of getting any one of the other five.

 

In category (you have to select this from the pull down menu), costing 2 converters, converts to a random IO of the level you started with in the same category but of a different set.  For example, a Doctored Wounds can convert to a Miracle, but not to another Doctored Wounds.

 

By rarity, costing 1 converter, converts to a random IO at the same level but of a different set.  

 

Hope this helps!  If there are any follow up questions, have at it!

Thank you!! I feel I have wasted a lot of inf trying to figure this out but can never seem to get the settings right. Going to try some more when I get off work and see if I can make some inf. 

[ajax34i]

So, basically, let's say you want a specific enhancement:  Luck of the Gambler: Increased Global Recharge.  It's a rare (orange color), defense (category in the AH) enhancement in the Luck of the Gambler set.  Sells for 6-7 million on the AH.

 

Start with a random uncommon (yellow) recipe, because uncommon recipes don't require rare mats (that cost 400-500k each).

 

You "up" the uncommon enhancement you got from the recipe, from an "uncommon" to a "rare" by rolling Out of Set - Category: (same category as the enhancement you have).  Each category has a few sets in it, and some are yellow some are orange.  Roll a few times "in the category" and  you'll eventually roll from yellow to orange.  It costs you 200k (2 converters) to roll, so hopefully you luck out and only roll once or twice, otherwise it's cheaper to pay 400k and get an orange recipe and the mats to make an enhancement that's already orange.

 

Once you have an orange enhancement, you spend 100k each time (one converter) to roll randomly for Out of Set: Rare.  This will convert your enhancement to other enhancements from other sets, but keeping it "rare".  Roll until you get any enhancement from any of the Defense Sets.  It may take a while to "hit" into a defense set, 500k depending on luck.

 

Once you have any of the defense enhancements, switch to rolling Out of Set:  Category: Defense, until you get an enhancement in the Luck of the Gambler set (blue dice icon).  May cost you 1-1.5 million until you "hit" into Luck of the Gambler.

 

Once you have a Luck of the Gambler enhancement, switch to rolling In Set until you get the Increased Global Recharge enhancement, on average (because of the 1:5 odds), this costs 1.5-1.8 million.

 

The taxes for selling a LotG: +Global Rech on the market at 6 mil are 600k.  Don't forget taxes.

 

So the total cost to get a LotG: +Global Rech from "random recipe" is somewhere in the 4.2 million range, again depending on luck.

Edited August 9, 2019 by ajax34i

[justicebeliever]

Sure. that's kinda true (converters easily sell for 80K now, so there's 800K back in your pocket...

 

But more importantly, it would be silly to only roll for LotG...

• buy cheap yellow recipes that don't require rare salvage...buy at a level like 31, 32, 33, or something so that you don't have 4 different types of sets for that category
• buy converters (for Pete's sake, don't pay 100K, it would make Pete sad)

You Goal now is to convert to any rare set that is more valuable that what you paid - i.e. must sell for at least $1.5 Million or more

 

If you convert to an especially good rare set, like Healing, Resist Damage, Defense, then you are going to go the extra mile to get a big seller, but 80% of what I sell only sells for $1.5 to 2.5M, but it only takes 2-5 converters to get there...If I during those few conversions I get a really good one, then I'll spend the extra 3-15 converters to get something really good...

 

EDIT:  I would be extremely remiss, if I didn't include this guide!  If it's helpful, please give Shinobu a big like!

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by justicebeliever

[Griffin]

Thank you both for the responses. I think I was just doing it incorrectly before. I am going to sit down whene I get home and go through the process again while reading these posts (and the new guide linked). Thanks! 

[Yomo Kimyata]

4 hours ago, ajax34i said:

So, basically, let's say you want a specific enhancement:  Luck of the Gambler: Increased Global Recharge.  It's a rare (orange color), defense (category in the AH) enhancement in the Luck of the Gambler set.  Sells for 6-7 million on the AH.

 

Start with a random uncommon (yellow) recipe, because uncommon recipes don't require rare mats (that cost 400-500k each).

 

You "up" the uncommon enhancement you got from the recipe, from an "uncommon" to a "rare" by rolling Out of Set - Category: (same category as the enhancement you have).  Each category has a few sets in it, and some are yellow some are orange.  Roll a few times "in the category" and  you'll eventually roll from yellow to orange.  It costs you 200k (2 converters) to roll, so hopefully you luck out and only roll once or twice, otherwise it's cheaper to pay 400k and get an orange recipe and the mats to make an enhancement that's already orange.

 

Once you have an orange enhancement, you spend 100k each time (one converter) to roll randomly for Out of Set: Rare.  This will convert your enhancement to other enhancements from other sets, but keeping it "rare".  Roll until you get any enhancement from any of the Defense Sets.  It may take a while to "hit" into a defense set, 500k depending on luck.

 

Once you have any of the defense enhancements, switch to rolling Out of Set:  Category: Defense, until you get an enhancement in the Luck of the Gambler set (blue dice icon).  May cost you 1-1.5 million until you "hit" into Luck of the Gambler.

 

Once you have a Luck of the Gambler enhancement, switch to rolling In Set until you get the Increased Global Recharge enhancement, on average (because of the 1:5 odds), this costs 1.5-1.8 million.

 

The taxes for selling a LotG: +Global Rech on the market at 6 mil are 600k.  Don't forget taxes.

 

So the total cost to get a LotG: +Global Rech from "random recipe" is somewhere in the 4.2 million range, again depending on luck.

First of all, you have to start with an uncommon recipe that is level 25 or higher.  You will never get to LOTG proc with a level 24.  Your odds are best with a level 41, but your crafting costs are higher.

 

In theory, you can roll once by category and convert to rare (2 converters) and roll once by rarity (1 converter) and end up directly with a LOTG proc for a total cost of 3 converters.  That would be pretty sweet.  But this is extremely unlikely.

 

In theory, you could roll literally forever, until the sun burns down into a cinder, and never end up with a LOTG proc.  This is also extremely unlikely.

 

The "right"answer is an exercise in probability and patience.  It will depend a lot on what recipe you start with because that will impact how quickly you get a rare.  There are plenty of IOs that will guarantee a rare on a single conversion; the running, leaping, flying, and teleporting ones "jump" to mind.

 

I haven't worked out the exact odds, and I don't intend to.  I think your numbers sound optimistic "on average", but not outrageously so.  One problem here is that the average may be, for example, 5 conversions to change a random LOTG into the proc, but it has an infinitely long tail.  If you had a million IOs, you would expect it to take about 5 million conversions to convert them all.  But for ten IOs?  It might take 50 times.  It might take 5 times (EDIT:  duh, no it might not take 5 times.  It might take 10 times, though).  But it might take a lot more.  There's going to be variability with a smaller sample set.

 

I leave it to someone with more patience than myself to test Ajax's theory.  Take, say, 100 uncommon recipes, craft them, and document how many licks it takes to get to the center of conversions it takes to make them all into LOTG procs.  It's probably even easier to work out the probabilities directly and model a Monte Carlo simulation, but I don't have the patience for that either.  I suspect that it's not profitable over the long term.  If it is, have at it!  

 

 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Yomo Kimyata

[ajax34i]

I tried to edit my post to add that going specifically for LotG would be more expensive than if you just go for "whatever sells", but it said "post no longer editable".

 

From (my) experience:  50 recipes + 450-ish converters -> 50 enhancements that sell for 3 - 3.5 m average.  A few 6m (LotG), a good number 4m (Miracle, Kismet, Perf. Shifter), the majority 2m (the various damage sets that have "chance for xxx damage").  50 million -> 50 million return + 100 million profit - 15 million taxes.  So you spend a few hours clicking like a maniac, and you see your numbers increase by 85 million over time (they take a few days to sell).  The converters being 80k instead of 100k saves 10 million (offsets the taxes), but enhancement prices on the /ah are dropping to compensate.

Edited August 9, 2019 by ajax34i

[Justisaur]

I'll just note since it didn't appear clear in the responses:

 

When you convert out of set by rarity you only get an enhancement of the same level, so you can't get a LotG if you're using an enhancement that's below level 25 since LotGs are from 25-50.

[Robotech_Master]

Note that you can buy cheap Attuned Enhancements from the market and convert them out of set/in category and very possibly get lucky. Attuned IOs are apparently all considered to be the same level, which means you could potentially roll a Kismet or Gift of the Ancients into a Luck of the Gambler. But there are so many Defense sets that it might take you enough hops to eat up all your profit before you get there.

Ditto for rolling Attuned Triage trying for one of the more valuable Healing sets (and their procs).

 

This does have the fringe benefit that if you get something you want to keep and use, it's already Attuned so you don't have to worry about wasting money on a Catalyst to Attune it for yourself.