How good is Beast?

[Dixa]

All numbers were unenhanced.

 

Fortify pack doesn’t need much recharge to be perma so kin really does t have that much of an advantage there.

 

However and I believe I stated this elsewhere this combination is still nowhere near as tough as demons/thermal. I have been testing several dozen mm combinations on Justin fully decked out in io and tier 4 incarnates by taking them through the Maria Jenkins arc which has a lot of avs with various damage types and nothing has cruised through it like demons/thermal. Hell infernal had his way with beasts killing them over and over it was frustrating even though they were softcapped without fortify pack. As a same level av he one shot the dire wolf straight up.

 

Beasts hit pretty crazy hard with the slotting I used above but every time they stop to roar a short term buff it’s a dps loss.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not trying to say Beast/Kin is top tier, I am just saying that they can self softcap w/ Fortify Pack which opens up some other avenues for secondaries if your goal is softcapping.  I just think with Kin it makes the most sense, not because of the recharge, but because of the added damage.  I have not tested out numbers, but I take your word that they are lower DPS (and a more resisted type of damage as well) but my thoughts are that a Beast at or near damage cap with Fulcrum Shift is probably still out damaging any other Henchman that is not Kin.  Other sets can get more damage out of Kin, but they will not be as durable as Beasts that have Fortify as an option. 

 

I guess all I am saying is beasts are viable, and with Fortify, they have some different options not available in other sets.

 

Good info on Demons.  Thanks

 

the pet damage cap is only 200% I believe. with proper slotting and the 45% musculature incarnate your pets will be at nearly 140%. half a fulcrum gets you the rest of the way. call to justice gets you 20% shy.

 

however I do believe beast mm's should take hawk for the -fly since your pets have zero ranged attacks. so a fat fulcrum will for sure help that out.

[SmalltalkJava]

All numbers were unenhanced.

 

Fortify pack doesn’t need much recharge to be perma so kin really does t have that much of an advantage there.

 

However and I believe I stated this elsewhere this combination is still nowhere near as tough as demons/thermal. I have been testing several dozen mm combinations on Justin fully decked out in io and tier 4 incarnates by taking them through the Maria Jenkins arc which has a lot of avs with various damage types and nothing has cruised through it like demons/thermal. Hell infernal had his way with beasts killing them over and over it was frustrating even though they were softcapped without fortify pack. As a same level av he one shot the dire wolf straight up.

 

Beasts hit pretty crazy hard with the slotting I used above but every time they stop to roar a short term buff it’s a dps loss.

 

Hey, quick question.  So in your opinion is it the Demons or the Thermal that helped more?  Well, I guess what I'm trying to ask is why was Thermal doing so well?  What was the synergy between them that worked?

[Dixa]

All numbers were unenhanced.

 

Fortify pack doesn’t need much recharge to be perma so kin really does t have that much of an advantage there.

 

However and I believe I stated this elsewhere this combination is still nowhere near as tough as demons/thermal. I have been testing several dozen mm combinations on Justin fully decked out in io and tier 4 incarnates by taking them through the Maria Jenkins arc which has a lot of avs with various damage types and nothing has cruised through it like demons/thermal. Hell infernal had his way with beasts killing them over and over it was frustrating even though they were softcapped without fortify pack. As a same level av he one shot the dire wolf straight up.

 

Beasts hit pretty crazy hard with the slotting I used above but every time they stop to roar a short term buff it’s a dps loss.

 

Hey, quick question.  So in your opinion is it the Demons or the Thermal that helped more?  Well, I guess what I'm trying to ask is why was Thermal doing so well?  What was the synergy between them that worked?

 

It’s both

 

The reason it works is because demons natural resists plus ember shield from the ember demon and the two resist shields cap your tier 1 and 2 pets to smash/lethal/fire/cold/toxic and are over 50% energy and neg. just weak to psi but even then I was able to drop a +2 mother mayhem thanks to the healing spam and the -dmg, -regen (500% mind you), -defense, -resists from the secondary and the -resist from the hellfire demon and demonling that stack and the occasional extra heals from the ember demon. I am able to drop avs faster than the tw/bio scrapper I was testing which is getting a good 700+ dps on the scrapper pylon thread.

 

Demons have poor aoe though and most of the damage comes from the ember demon not the prince. You won’t be rolling x8 missions but you will be rolling x3 av without needing lore pets for the most part. +4 mm are at a substantial disadvantage vs the other ads and I find it not worth the effort.

[desarix]

I know this is anecdotal but I made a beasts/sonic and I was only low level but I got 4 orange mobs and 2 yellow in a level 13 mission the arachnos one with Manticore the shining star base one. It was a stupid mistake on my part and bad pull with teleport foe. Anyway I thought okay the beasts are going to die and I will have to resummon them. I had put two Single Origin for resist damage (yeah AH) sheilds and lo and behold they hardly took any damage and actually did better than the beasts/FF build I also have. I was quite surprised how well sonic worked and I had no heals at all. I didn't even use the green candy just loaded them with yellow and red ones.

 

I think sonic is really undervalued.

[SinergyX]

I know this is anecdotal but I made a beasts/sonic and I was only low level but I got 4 orange mobs and 2 yellow in a level 13 mission the arachnos one with Manticore the shining star base one. It was a stupid mistake on my part and bad pull with teleport foe. Anyway I thought okay the beasts are going to die and I will have to resummon them. I had put two Single Origin for resist damage (yeah AH) sheilds and lo and behold they hardly took any damage and actually did better than the beasts/FF build I also have. I was quite surprised how well sonic worked and I had no heals at all. I didn't even use the green candy just loaded them with yellow and red ones.

 

I think sonic is really undervalued.

Beast/sonic can push them on a serious high level of resist (and the inate def buffs) and sync very well for being all melee, you basicly run in with them into a group, they do their thing.

 

I often had near capped SL pets, but having 4 or 5 pets wacking a single mob, the AI often want to run away.

 

Though the attackchain of beasts is quite poor (plus they love to roar all the time, rooting them for like 2-3 sec), i still would pick ninja over beasts, dispite they get lower resist, having them consistently attacking stuff, makes them kill alot faster then beast can.

[Dixa]

I believe it’s the disruption field in sonic that can cause the running

[SinergyX]

I believe it’s the disruption field in sonic that can cause the running

It also happens on my /nature, as if the mob gets too much attacks per second and fear just kicks in (like some tend to run away when health gets low).

[khy]

I love beast because the dogs are good dogs brent, but I have to admit that the fact that they're melee really makes it FAR more difficult to keep them wrangled compared to other pets.

 

After playing three different beast/ MM's to level 32 (Thermal, Sonic, and Kin) I always had troubles where enemies would peel off and when I'd direct the wolves to a new target, they'd be slow to respond. It'd take 1-3 seconds for the wolves to break off their current target and charge towards the new one, which was often enough time for the wolves to aggro a new pack. I've caused a couple wipes because I wasn't able to predict when enemies would break off and flee, and was too slow to get my pets on a target that was still in melee.

 

What I would REALLY love is a setting where my pets would stick to me like glue, and I would run in to melee and let them attack anything that's in melee range, but when enemies run OUT of melee range they wouldn't chase. I could just drag my pets around and let them hit EXACTLY what I want them to and if I want to draw an enemy back out of the pack, I could simply by running away and having my pets follow me. But that's not an option with MM Pet AI. If I set them to passive follow they'll stick to me, but won't attack enemies in melee range. If I change them to anything other than passive and let them attack they'll chase enemies. It's frustrating.

[desarix]

Have you tried to command them to attack in defensive mode. This prevents the frequency of them from running off considerably. Only problem is that they won't kill the mob sometimes and leave a sliver of life and you have to ask them to attack again.

[Dixa]

I believe it’s the disruption field in sonic that can cause the running

It also happens on my /nature, as if the mob gets too much attacks per second and fear just kicks in (like some tend to run away when health gets low).

 

nature has a power similiar to darknest night. that power also causes fear for both dark and nature.

[SinergyX]

I believe it’s the disruption field in sonic that can cause the running

It also happens on my /nature, as if the mob gets too much attacks per second and fear just kicks in (like some tend to run away when health gets low).

 

nature has a power similiar to darknest night. that power also causes fear for both dark and nature.

I don't run any debuff toggles on my nature, just the odd few aoe buffs. Even when im not even close, when all 5 wacking the same mob, they tend to just run off.

[Dixa]

I believe it’s the disruption field in sonic that can cause the running

It also happens on my /nature, as if the mob gets too much attacks per second and fear just kicks in (like some tend to run away when health gets low).

 

nature has a power similiar to darknest night. that power also causes fear for both dark and nature.

I don't run any debuff toggles on my nature, just the odd few aoe buffs. Even when im not even close, when all 5 wacking the same mob, they tend to just run off.

 

wondering if primary may matter here. beyond the obvious primaries that drop patches which have fear associated with them, I have never dealt with many runners on demons.

 

I was doing diabolique as a +3 av on Justin with a tw/bio scrapper and it was frustrating because she would bubble and run every minute when she was at 20% health. but with my demons/thermal also +3 even though she would bubble she wouldn't run, or rather fly off.

 

I know someone said earlier that acid mortar also causes a permanent fear effect when really it shouldn't. just more reason to always grab an aoe immob as an mm.

[kelly Rocket]

I believe it’s the disruption field in sonic that can cause the running

It also happens on my /nature, as if the mob gets too much attacks per second and fear just kicks in (like some tend to run away when health gets low).

 

nature has a power similiar to darknest night. that power also causes fear for both dark and nature.

I don't run any debuff toggles on my nature, just the odd few aoe buffs. Even when im not even close, when all 5 wacking the same mob, they tend to just run off.

 

wondering if primary may matter here. beyond the obvious primaries that drop patches which have fear associated with them, I have never dealt with many runners on demons.

 

I was doing diabolique as a +3 av on Justin with a tw/bio scrapper and it was frustrating because she would bubble and run every minute when she was at 20% health. but with my demons/thermal also +3 even though she would bubble she wouldn't run, or rather fly off.

 

I know someone said earlier that acid mortar also causes a permanent fear effect when really it shouldn't. just more reason to always grab an aoe immob as an mm.

 

From what I recall the devs saying back on Live, it may be a time to kill problem. I recall enemies will decide to run if fights take a long time and your side doesn't seem to be losing much health or losing people.

[Jeuraud]

 

, when all 5 wacking the same mob, they tend to just run off.

 

And this is probably part of the problem, and something I've noticed while grouping with MMs (Back in my CoHV days. I've yet to group in CoHH. To much of an Altaholic.).

 

There should be 6 wacking the same MOB.

 

  The attacks from the primary are part of the package, and if nothing else you should be spamming Swarm which has a Speed Debuff, and is fast to start with (The Def Debuff does not hurt either.), and you dont even have to get into the scrum. Drop a couple of those freebee P2W Es into it (Especially the knockdown before level 21.), and your golden.

 

  You spam Swarm, and the MOB slowly runs away, HPs melting away, from your DDs, Dots, and of course your Beasts. You add a Knockdown IO to Swarm and there's a good chance the MOB is not going anywhere. You add Raven and Hawk to the mix and you have even more Speed Debuff, Knockdown, DDs and Dots. There are other Debuffs in these attacks as well, but this thread is about runaways.

[Dakkaface]

My Beast/Nature is at 23 right now. It feels like a decent set.  They're melee and have to deal with the abysmal melee pathfinding, but they're fast like ninjas without the fragility, and they have some self buffing with Pack Mentality. Nature seems to pair well with them, since I can toss out heals constantly and between Wild Bastion, Wild Growth and Fortify Pack, they can get tanky when they need to be, and Nature has a very useful cone Heal+HoT. It doesn't feel like my Bots/FF where I just want to ditch half the powers for Pool Powers, but at the same time, it feels like I have to spend more time babysitting and keeping stacks of Bloom and Pack Mentality up, and less time inflicting CC.

[UnseenWrath]

Can you please post your Beast/Nature build? I want to make one and could use the guidance. Thank you in advance .

[Lazarillo]

Got my Beasts/Cold to 32 yesterday (and thus the final upgrade), and I only have one TF under my belt with that at this point, but the seem to melt spawns pretty well.  I did get stuck kinda accidentally soloing a couple mobs and made it to the finish line, so they're definitely a wrecking crew.  My particular build is a touch luck-oriented, though, because while the Defenses all work pretty well (my pets are damn-near soft-capped), at their best, each one goes down in maybe two hits.

[Dixa]

Got my Beasts/Cold to 32 yesterday (and thus the final upgrade), and I only have one TF under my belt with that at this point, but the seem to melt spawns pretty well.  I did get stuck kinda accidentally soloing a couple mobs and made it to the finish line, so they're definitely a wrecking crew.  My particular build is a touch luck-oriented, though, because while the Defenses all work pretty well (my pets are damn-near soft-capped), at their best, each one goes down in maybe two hits.

 

posts like this must always specify what difficulty you are playing on.

 

40+ game is diff from the 30+ game, the 20+ game, etc. 32 is still too early to claim beasts are 'alright' when everyone testing at 50 is pretty much proving otherwise.