Bossk_Hogg Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, ShardWarrior said: So.... tell the player how to play? Got it. Kind of exactly what I said about irony. Because one person is griefing the rest of the team. Jesus, what is hard to understand? Same reason we shame others into bathing and not coming into the office smeared with feces - because the smell impacts those around them. What about people who like to pull multiple spawns on their team. Or those who love to phase shift mobs at every opportunity. Should the others just adapt to that too? Or maybe, just maybe, one person's irritating fun doesnt outweigh the other seven. Edited September 5, 2019 by Bossk_Hogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DSorrow Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 12 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said: One is actively participating and contributing to the team and one is not. Not at all difficult to comprehend the distinction. Well, the distinction just seems awfully arbitrary to me if the result is irrelevant. If it is irrelevant, it just seems to me that the argument for leeching is bad "because it is bad" shares some of the irrationality of the "all KB is bad" sentiment. Is participation an automatic free pass even if it's a net negative to your team (e.g. hindering your team's ability to stay alive / defeat the enemies)? 14 minutes ago, PaxArcana said: Only builds, only decisions about which powers to take or not take, which powers to emphasize the use of during play. Kindly stay on-topic, thank you very much. Leeching may have been a bit of a tangent, but I only brought it up because it's one of the things most players agree on being bad and disruptive. If we consider why it is disruptive (other teammates have to do more), it should be, in my opinion, pretty analogous to any other type of build / power use that results in the same thing. 16 minutes ago, PaxArcana said: So, I look at those two snippets of your post, and all I can think is "One of these things is not like the other ..." I don't really understand where you're getting at here. Pointing out inconsistencies in arguments isn't a personal attack on anyone. Kicking or ignoring people isn't looking for conflict either, sometimes you just run into a person you don't want to run into again and maybe my threshold for ignoring someone is lower than yours. But like I said, generally I don't care what my teammates are doing, but I will respectfully tell them their build is disruptive, discuss how they could avoid being so and use kick as the final measure. Having said that, I don't think I have anything more to add to this discussion. Torchbearer: Sunsinger - Fire/Time Corruptor Cursebreaker - TW/Elec Brute Coldheart - Ill/Cold Controller Mythoclast - Rad/SD Scrapper Give a man a build export and you feed him for a day, teach him to build and he's fed for a lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossk_Hogg Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Twisted Toon said: Only for teams where the tank is stupid about herding into open areas. A minuscule amount of forethought concerning the tanks herding location will alleviate 95% of the downsides of KB. No one wants waste time to let you use your bad powers better. We don't care about hitting mobs one at a time to let someone use their sleeps either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said: Because one person is griefing the rest of the team. Jesus, what is hard to understand? It's not hard to understand at all that you personally don't like KB and consider anyone on a toon that has KB in their set a nuisance, irritating and they are "griefing everyone else". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicebeliever Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said: Because one person is griefing the rest of the team. Jesus, what is hard to understand? What abiout people who like to pull multiple spawns on their team. or those who love to phase shift mobs at every opportunity. Should the otherd just adapt to that too? Or maybe, just maybe, one person's irritating fun doesnt outweigh the other seven. What's hard to understand, is how just a few players in the game, are trying to define a behavior that people see as fun as "nasty","putrid","disruptive"... Are there times KB can be overused? Sure...But I've never heard a complaint in all my time using it, and many other players on this thread have shared the same... And I have definitely had more people (myself included) pull multiple spawns onto the team and watch them all wipe (in my defense, I would NEVER do this intentionally)...But that's a player behavior, not a power behavior...And that's where the conversation should stay... "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossk_Hogg Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, ShardWarrior said: It's not hard to understand at all that you personally don't like KB and consider anyone on a toon that has KB in their set a nuisance, irritating and they are "griefing everyone else". You still havent addressed my point. That on e person's bad powers are making the fight worse for everyone else, and THAT is why one person should adapt instead of the other seven. You can't, because all the KB apologists are pretty much inherently selfish. You KNOW it's crappy and disruptive, you just want to make it everyone else's problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, DSorrow said: Well, the distinction just seems awfully arbitrary to me if the result is irrelevant. It is not arbitrary whatsoever. If you're on a team with nothing but energy blasters blowing mobs up who also happen to knock stuff around as a result of how the game is programmed, you're still doing damage, still completing the content and participating. If you're on a team where everyone stands at the door doing nothing, nothing gets accomplished. These are not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossk_Hogg Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, justicebeliever said: What's hard to understand, is how just a few players in the game, are trying to define a behavior that people see as fun as "nasty","putrid","disruptive"... Are there times KB can be overused? Sure...But I've never heard a complaint in all my time using it, and many other players on this thread have shared the same... And I have definitely had more people (myself included) pull multiple spawns onto the team and watch them all wipe (in my defense, I would NEVER do this intentionally)...But that's a player behavior, not a power behavior...And that's where the conversation should stay... Those players chose energy blast, and chose not to slot the tools necessary to make it team friendly. How is that different than the guy who just wants to use his sweet phase shift powers every spawn on a kill all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Bossk_Hogg said: You still havent addressed my point. That on e person's bad powers are making the fight worse for everyone else, and THAT is why one person should adapt instead of the other seven. You can't, because all the KB apologists are pretty much inherently selfish. You KNOW it's crappy and disruptive, you just want to make it everyone else's problem. Scroll up. I just explained how KB does not bother me in the least and I can/will adapt to it, just as I will adapt to any variety of powersets and playstyles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubakumbi Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 13 minutes ago, justicebeliever said: So I know that you hate people being judgmental (sincerely, I know this about you), but if you are going to have the motto of "Let people play how they want to play", then let them do so as Team Leaders as well...because otherwise, if you remove their agency as team leader, they won't want be having fun anymore, and the game just lost a player who wasn't contributing negatively at all... Where did I mention I wanted these team leaders to change? I simply opined my opinion. If that is the way some people like to have fun, more power to them. It seems to me this activity is considered the 'norm' or the 'mean', regardless of my personal opinion. Kick whomever you like. Dictate whatever you want on 'your' teams. Won't change my opinion on the human behaviours involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShardWarrior Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 1 minute ago, Bossk_Hogg said: Those players chose energy blast, and chose not to slot the tools necessary to make it team friendly. This is based on the very false assumption that KB is or cannot be "team friendly". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossk_Hogg Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 Just now, ShardWarrior said: Scroll up. I just explained how KB does not bother me in the least and I can/will adapt to it, just as I will adapt to any variety of powersets and playstyles. Hey, that's great! That's YOU. That still doesn't address why it is the responsibility of the others on the team to mitigate the poor behavior/powerset of the one. So you still havent addressed the question. Know what I have never seen? Anyone asking for knockback in LFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bossk_Hogg Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said: This is based on the very false assumption that KB is or cannot be "team friendly". Just like phase shifting every mob, amirite? You'd defend that too, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justicebeliever Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said: Those players chose energy blast, and chose not to slot the tools necessary to make it team friendly. What's "team friendly"? If the only thing that makes a team friendly is maximum DPS, there would only be 2-3 AT's you could play, and 2-3 powersets...So it stands to reasons that 80% of people in the game are not "team friendly". If team friendly is, "I am a player who does as much running and chasing as you do, faceplants as often as you do, and sticks to every mission thru to the end, and has fun while doing it", then that again sounds like a player behavior, not a power behavior... I'm not going to address the phase shift, as it's a non-sequitur...If that's really happened to you, then I am sorry...but that would be the very first time I have ever heard that mentioned on the forums...But since Phase Shift is a singular power, with a different purpose than KB, it's not relevant.... 2 "The opposite of a fact is falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may very well be another profound truth." - Niels Bohr Global Handle: @JusticeBeliever ... Home servers on Live: Guardian ... Playing on: Everlasting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jubakumbi Posted September 5, 2019 Share Posted September 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said: Hey, that's great! That's YOU. That still doesn't address why it is the responsibility of the others on the team to mitigate the poor behavior/powerset of the one. So you still havent addressed the question. Know what I have never seen? Anyone asking for knockback in LFG. So, because the elitist community focused on Rewards/per second has been very good at convincing the general populus the KB = Bad? If the vocal minority that dislikes KB so much was not as powerful, you would. The more I read, the more I think I will start building these teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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