Captain Citadel

Got a build file for it? I'd be very curious to see how you've slotted everything. I can only get about halfway there with my Inv/SS.

I'd really like to see Super Strength get a balance pass of some kind. Thematically it's supposed to be incredibly powerful, but in practice it's one of the worst melee sets to actually play. I'm not saying it should be the best set ever, but it should be better than it is. The damage crash on Rage makes me feel like the Hulk turning back into puny Banner, and that's not what I picked the set for. Makes me want to rename the button to "Impotent Nerd Rage." It also continues to vex me that Foot Stomp works while flying (at ground level) but Hurl doesn't. I'd wager the majority of characters using Super Strength have taken Fly for thematic reasons.

Is this an Invuln/Staff tank or something? How'd you do this?

Just thought I would post Version 2.3.3 of my main's build. It may be of use to someone looking for a build that fulfills the "flying brick" power fantasy popularized by characters like Superman and other iconic superheroes. I've managed to achieve perma-Rage without Hasten, though it can also get about 19 seconds of double-Rage, which is pretty good. I've also balanced out the defenses and resistances, rather than only focusing on one or the other. I've posted the totals breakdown below, showing baseline performance with only one stack of Invincibility. It is lacking in any form of ranged damage, but with the recent changes to Fly in the travel powers update, you are the ranged attack. I haven't found any situations where I felt crippled by not having one. The build flies fast, punches hard, and laughs in the face of virtually any foe. The few attacks that do manage to hit you are heavily resisted, and the -ToHit debuff from Diamagnetic Interface effectively increases your defenses even further. It also helps you take down hard targets in group content by debuffing their regen. EDIT: Almost forgot to include a special thanks to @Infinitum for his help with the build, as mine is based on his own eponymous build, albeit significantly modified. This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.5.6 https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn Click this DataLink to open the build! Captain Citadel: Level 50 Science Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), ImpArm-ResPsi(3) Level 1: Jab -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(5), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Hct-Acc/Rchg(7), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Hct-Dam%(9) Level 2: Dull Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(9), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(13), Prv-Absorb%(13) Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(15), RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(17), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), RctArm-ResDam(19), ImpArm-ResPsi(19) Level 6: Haymaker -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(25) Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29) Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A), PrfZng-Dam%(31) Level 12: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A) Level 16: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), RctArm-ResDam(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(33) Level 18: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(34), RctArm-EndRdx/Rchg(34), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RctArm-ResDam(36), ImpArm-ResPsi(36) Level 20: Kick -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(36), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Dam%(39) Level 22: Tough -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A) Level 24: Invincibility -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(39), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), ShlWal-Def(40), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(40), GssSynFr--Build%(40) Level 26: Knockout Blow -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(42), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(43) Level 28: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(43), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), ShlWal-Def(45), Rct-ResDam%(45) Level 30: Combat Jumping -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(46), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), ShlWal-Def(46) Level 32: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 35: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(50) Level 41: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 44: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A) Level 49: Physical Perfection -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), PrfShf-End%(50) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A) Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon Level 50: Mighty Radial Final Judgement Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 50: Portal Jockey Level 50: Task Force Commander Level 50: The Atlas Medallion Level 14: Afterburner ------------

Would you mind posting a build file? If not here, maybe on the Tanker board?

I'd just like to see a build file because even with 10 stacks of Invincibility, I can't go that high. It won't boost positional defenses. And even if you could stack Invincibility infinitely, it won't give you +Res. I can play the game with figurative god mode, this is literal god mode. Either @America's Angel has the greatest Invuln build in the universe, or these numbers are fudged. Unless she's sacrificed all her damage output to achieve this, I don't know.

Can I ask how you achieved such complete and total def/res cap uptime? I've never been able to achieve anything close to this on my Invuln/SS.

Happy with these changes. The only other thing I'd like to have is a customization setting in the Tailor that tells Fly to override Hover's animation, but I'm guessing that's not possible because of whatever's in the code. I appreciate that we will have the option to remove Hover's "Magneto flight" animation, but I like having it on when I'm only using Hover. It suits the lower speed really well. I could keep toggling between the two as we currently do on Live, but I like having the extra flight control. I never missed it before because on Live I always have Afterburner toggled on outside of combat, so I've always got the flight control bonus from either AB or Hover.

I'm not complaining about the new Afterburner. The old AB made you go faster and so does the new one, even if I have gripes with the new cooldown it has. EvMa has very limited use inside combat and basically none outside. Anyone already using Combat Jumping and Hover for set bonuses won't get much out of EvMa at all. Live Afterburner has a use in every build, it makes you go significantly faster. EvMa is less universally effective because many builds will already have the benefits it provides and won't need to stack them with EvMa for that much extra benefit. At a certain point the mag is just overkill, at least in PvE. I don't PvP so for all I know it's really good there, but if that's the case then EvMa is still far more of an edge-case ability than its predecessor.

Not really what I'm getting at. It just seems like EvMa is far less useful than the power it's replacing, aside from retaining slotting.

It honestly feels like EvMa is struggling to justify its existence after the reasons most people spent a power slot on Afterburner have been pruned away into the new bonus Afterburner power. What good is bonus defense that only works outside of combat? What good is flight control when Hover already provides it, especially since we can now toggle Fly and Hover simultaneously?

Can I just ask what you use Unstoppable for? You can more or less achieve the effect of perma-Unstoppable's mitigation through IO sets without ever having to actually take the power. Maybe not actually 70% resistance to everything plus capped S/L resistance, but with the right IO slotting you have enough defenses that 50-60% resists are plenty.

It'd really be preferable to be able to hit the speed cap with Fly just by slotting a 50+5 +FlySpeed IO in Swift and Fly. I would hope the same was true for Super Speed and Super Jump, using Swift and Hurdle, respectively.

I think the time to make this change was when they opened up the AT alignment restrictions, because Brutes in particular really overshadowed Tankers but were needed on Villain teams where Tankers couldn't go. Now, it would kill the community.

This is satire, right? The title? Intentionally proposing suggestions that will draw the ire of most of the community?

Because I think the -Def/-End and -9999% Damage crash is there to compensate for the fact that it can be perma'd, and double-stacked for quite a while with Hasten. Remove the 10 seconds of zero damage output, and I think something else would have to give in exchange. But I'm not a developer. If it were up to me I'd prevent Rage from stacking at all, or find some way to rebalance Super Strength without it, just replacing it with Build Up. I don't think it was ever a good idea to balance the set's damage output around a buff with such high uptime. Build Up is not a required power for the sets that have it, but anyone using Super Strength and not taking Rage has to suffer pitiful damage output compared to other Tankers and Brutes.

Hurl does need to be tweaked to work while flying at ground level. I feel like it's gotta be an oversight that was just never patched, because Foot Stomp and Mighty Judgement both work while flying that way. I'd put Hurl into my build if I could use it that way, but as it is now I'd have to toggle off Hover, use it, then toggle Hover back on. ETA: I'd also like to see Rage be tweaked as you suggest, but I don't think the community could ever agree on it. Some people really like double-stacking it, and the stacking would probably have to be eliminated to compensate for eliminating the "impotent nerd rage" debuff.

I missed that. I apologize. OP compared the idea to the Contamination effect in Radiation Melee, and that effect is applied by all damaging abilities in the set, triggering bonus damage on Contaminated targets hit by any single-target Radiation Melee attack. I don't see why Impact should only apply to some of the single-target attacks in SS and not others. With the exception of Foot Stomp, everything is single-target. The proposed AoE shockwave effect from Impact should be applicable to every single-target damaging ability. I'd rather see Impact apply a -Res debuff, but either of these options would improve Super Strength across the board without radically altering how it's played or which attack powers are picked.

Exactly. This is why I like the idea of adding Impact to Super Strength, but don't like Street Justice. It would work exactly like the secondary effects in all of the original damage sets: a thing that happens while you're normally using your powers. It's not like Bruising where you absolutely must always be using your T1 attack to keep a debuff on the target. It wouldn't suddenly change SS into a combo-based gimmick set. The proposal wasn't to only add Impact to certain powers and force a specific rotation, this would be something applied by every attack in the set. The idea is that successive strikes are applying the effect by chance over time, not any specific attacks.

I'm not really sure Invuln needs a buff that badly, and I say this as someone who plays my Invuln/SS Tanker almost daily. Moving Invincibility up towards the front end of the set is a good idea, as well as maybe turning Dull Pain into an absorb shield. But I don't think there's much to do about Unstoppable. Nobody really takes it, but I always thought that was because it's just not needed in the age of IO sets. You can completely plug the Psionic and Toxic resistance holes with set bonuses.

Then people will complain they have to take Hand Clap. Having more AoE is great, but this would mess up existing builds because you'd have to not only figure out which power to trade for Hand Clap, but reconfigure your IO slotting because presently only one AoE damage set can fit into a Super Strength build. I think Impact is the better solution (whether it's the chance for AoE shockwave effect, or chance to apply -Res effect) but replacing Jab with Punch is fine. Adding a new "Super Cross Punch" as the T2 creates the same problem as converting Hand Clap to an attack power, though.

I mean...if you do then so do I, lol. I'm in no position to judge. I should be using Street Justice but I just prefer Super Strength, even in spite of the gripes I have with the set.

I don't know if I'd call Willpower an elegant solution to Regen's problems, though. Existing Regen characters basically had to reroll in order to take advantage of a set that wasn't hampered by fossilized design mistakes. I mean, Willpower's here now. No sense in getting rid of it and trying to graft its advantages into Regen, obviously. But I would say we should maybe avoid repeating that chain of events and figure out a way to fix Super Strength instead of effectively discarding it in favor of a newer and better version of a very similar concept. Frankly I'd say Street Justice is arguably an example of this exact kind of "fix" but one that may have missed the mark because it's built around a combo-based system, whereas Super Strength is much simpler to use because you can just fall into a rhythm of hitting whichever button in the attack chain has come off cooldown.

A while back I proposed an alternative version of Super Strength that had -Res effects as its special gimmick, without Rage. It was mostly in response to not liking the removal of Bruising, at least in a thematic "team support" sense, and also hating how SS is built around perma-Rage, with terrible damage output if you choose not to take it. Not taking Build Up in other melee sets is nowhere near as big of a detriment because there's not a ton of uptime. Maybe this proposal could be revisited as a special gimmick for the existing Super Strength set? I don't know what the exact debuff numbers would look like, but more or less this would tweak Super Strength to resemble something like a theoretical "Sonic Melee" set but without a Sonic-oriented theme. This would represent the overwhelming power of a character with Super Strength. Street Justice and Martial Arts deal the same flavor of Smashing damage, but they represent "normal" melee attacks. Super Strength should be, well...super, right? So applying a minor -Res debuff for flavor would make it feel more powerful. Thematically, the justification for the -Res effect would be that the character with Super Strength is delivering such punishing blows that the target's armor is buckling under the strain. Impact could represent landing an attack to a vital area, with additional strikes to Impacted targets building a -Res debuff as that vital area is subjected to further earth-shattering strikes. I think one of the other CoH servers has an AoE effect applied to SS, similar in function to the concept @SkyeSharpe is proposing. I haven't tested it for myself, but I wouldn't be opposed to it. Super Strength does need something. The only question is what.

Invuln/SS might be possibly the most unimaginative combo for this AT, but I love it all the same. Mine is based on a build @Infinitum created and posted in his build collection. I just tweaked it for thematic reasons. It's less powerful than the original build, because it doesn't have Hasten, though it still maintains perma-Rage with 15 seconds of double-Rage. No ranged attacks either. But it does exactly what I wanted it to do: fly, punch stuff, and absolutely refuse to die. It's probably got less-than-ideal typed defenses, but melee defense is capped. Resistances are pretty nice too, reaching about 72% resistance (with help from the +Res proc in Superior Might of the Tanker) to everything plus overcapped resistance and defense against Smashing/Lethal damage. This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7 https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn Click this DataLink to open the build! Captain Citadel: Level 50 Science Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Leadership Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(3), ImpArm-ResPsi(3) Level 1: Jab -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(7), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(9) Level 2: Dull Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(9), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg(11), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(13), Prv-Absorb%(13) Level 4: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(15), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(17), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(17), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ImpArm-ResPsi(19) Level 6: Haymaker -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(25) Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(25), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29) Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(A), PrfZng-Dam%(31) Level 12: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 14: Fly -- Flight-I(A) Level 16: Resist Elements -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(31), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(33), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), ImpArm-ResPsi(33) Level 18: Resist Energies -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(34), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(34), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(34), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), ImpArm-ResPsi(36) Level 20: Kick -- TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(A), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx(36), TchofDth-Dmg/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), TchofDth-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), TchofDth-Dam%(39) Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(39), UnbGrd-EndRdx/Rchg(39), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(40), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40), ImpArm-ResPsi(40) Level 24: Invincibility -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(42), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(42), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42), ShlWal-Def(43) Level 26: Knockout Blow -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(45) Level 28: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), ShlWal-Def(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46) Level 30: Combat Jumping -- Rct-ResDam%(A) Level 32: Rage -- RechRdx-I(A) Level 35: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 38: Foot Stomp -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(50) Level 41: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 44: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 47: Focused Accuracy -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A) Level 49: Physical Perfection -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), PrfShf-End%(50) Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I(A) Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(15) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A) Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon Level 50: Mighty Radial Final Judgement Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally Level 50: Ageless Radial Epiphany Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve Level 50: Portal Jockey Level 50: Task Force Commander Level 50: The Atlas Medallion ------------ | Copy & Paste this data into Mids Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1486;709;1418;HEX;| |78DA4D93CB4F135114C6EFB4534B1F58A19657A1B45428053A50E2DE05AF8090906| |05CA8D80C706D274E86A61D8C2C4D7CEE7C4617A2B8D485FF802EFD0B7C01FA0FF8| |424D7CC7453DF47C326D02BF33DF9C6FBE33F7DE99393B1A7C3C71EE90508223A65| |E2EE78EE8D66959F2CE2D1AD25A94827EA111BD68EB86151F316C7D499A5ED262DC| 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