Captain Citadel

Even while AB is in effect, Flight will be even slower than Speed and Jumping than it already is right now on Live. Stop talking down to me like I'm some kind of slow-witted child just because I'm not jumping for joy over the flight speed cap being flatly higher on Beta than it is now. Everyone's travel speed caps are going up. Relative to the other buffed travel pools, Flight will now lag further behind than it did before the original version of Afterburner was created. That's the part that I'm complaining about. All the travel pools are getting buffs, and the net result of those buffs is that Flight will be relatively slower than it is on Live. That's why I suggested a compromise: Allow the Beta version of Afterburner to be toggled on indefinitely if a player has slotted Hover, Fly, and Evasive Maneuvers together. Much like how the Fighting pool gains increased effectiveness for investing more deeply into it. Those players who have only invested in Super Speed or Super Jump without reaching further into the Speed or Leaping pools would still be faster than players who have only selected Fly. Those same players will still be faster than a flyer who has taken Hover, Fly, and Evasive Maneuvers and who is theoretically flying with perma-Afterburner, because the new flight speed cap is still lower than the run speed cap by a significant margin. Speed will still be the fastest travel power, it just wouldn't be as much faster than Flight than it is now.

"It's faster in Beta than it is on Live, so you have no room to complain" is kind of a moot point when the other travel pools are being upgraded to the point where they will have a greater speed advantage than they do now.

I'm not missing that fact. But the new Afterburner will not be a permanent toggle, and the net result of all these changes has effectively widened the speed gap to where it was before Afterburner was initially created to mitigate it. I'm suggesting a compromise for it to be permanently toggleable if we have Hover, Fly, and Evasive Maneuvers in our builds. Speed and Leaping are going to be even faster than Flight than they already are without requiring a deep investment in their pools. It seems fair to me that people who do choose to invest in Flight should be able to narrow that gap even a little bit.

Could we perhaps get permanent access to the Afterburner toggle if we have taken Hover, Fly, and EM? That way there's some incentive to invest in the Flight pool to get the most out of it. Even with permanently capped flight speed, characters using flight as their preferred mode of travel are going to be slower than the jumpers and speedsters. And now Super Jump has been buffed to the point where they can reach all the same places as flyers and teleporters. I don't see the harm in making the speed gap between Flight and Speed/Leaping narrower without outright removing the advantages of the latter two pools. Just because Fly is faster in Beta than Fly + Afterburner on Live doesn't mean these changes to Flight should be held beyond all criticism.

I'd really like to avoid re-rolling with entirely new powersets. I said that in my OP. Telling me my chosen powersets are completely non-viable is really not helping.

Build Link I'd like to have someone actually versed in Dominators look over this build, because it seems to perform really poorly on paper compared to other builds I've seen here. Not sure if that's because I built it wrong or because I just picked bad base powersets. I was going for high recharge and perma-Domination but it seems sorely lacking in defense/resists. I primarily play a Tanker so I don't know if that's because it's a Dominator, or because I built it wrong. I know the resistance soft caps are considerably lower, but still. It seems utterly useless in solo play. The only real stipulations I have for pool powers are to keep Sorcery and Fire Mastery for concept reasons. I like the Barrier and Reactive Incarnate powers but if they're bad I'm fine with axing them. I'm not keen on re-rolling with entirely new base powersets, however.

I appreciate it. 😀 I know conceptual constraints are stupid and lame but unfortunately the only power that I think might work would be Toxic Dart, from Experimentation. Sort of a "hey, I brought along this stun gun to incapacitate people I shouldn't punch through a wall" thing.

That's true, but I had no idea how to build a character back on Live because I started playing this game when I was just a kid. Now that I have a general idea of what properly built characters are capable of, it's fun to try to get as close to that level as possible within the constraints of a concept build. Playing a Tanker that can just stroll into huge mosh pits of enemies and not die is awesome, I don't have to worry about memorizing boss mechanics or managing defensive cooldowns or anything like in other MMOs. Tanking in this game is fun because you actually feel super-powered.

Yeah, I wish it was less of a struggle to optimize themed builds. I have an Ice/Fire/Fire Dominator that doesn't use Jack Frost. The character is a wizard, but he prefers not to get involved in making deals with elementals or other mystical beings in exchange for their services. So he doesn't use pets. I had to figure out the least conspicuous Lore pet to get around that particular wrinkle. Apparently I'm leaving a ton of damage on the table by not taking Jack Frost though. If I wanted to use pets I'd play a Mastermind.

How would you recommend setting up a build within certain constraints? For example without using Hasten, Laser Beam Eyes, or Hurl, and limiting the travel powers to the Flight pool? Not having a ranged attack is rarely an issue in my experience, so I don't mind dropping one. I can still use Taunt to hold a ranged mob's attention if there's some reason I can't just hover over to it and smash it to pieces. My primary build concerns are hitting def caps, shoring up resistances other than S/L (particularly the gaping Psi hole), and not gimping my damage too much. I don't necessarily need double Rage, but a single-stack perma-Rage without Hasten would be ideal for the whole "set it and forget it" convenience.

Some explanation for why I made certain decisions: Foot Stomp works with Hover at ground level, I like the power because it works for defense while giving me full freedom of movement in any conceivable direction with zero drift. I took FS for AoE damage. Hand Clap I find useful because with KB to KD slotted, I'm not throwing enemies all over the map. I just keep juggling them with knockdowns. The time they spend recovering from knockdown is time they can't be attacking anyone. I took Maneuvers because I like Leadership buffs, thematically. It makes a good mule for LotG recharge. I took Tough and Weave because they made good enhancement mules for a few unique bonuses. Frankly I loathe the entire Fighting pool because you have to take an attack power from it just to use the defensive toggles. I know my S/L defense is overslotted but the rest of the defenses are deliberately above the softcap to account for buffed enemies in iTrial content. It was my understanding that you needed to go past 45% defenses to around 60% to account for their +ToHit buffs and/or defense debuffs. When I'm surrounded by mobs, Invincibility ramps up to achieve this. I've conceded that I have to put Rage back in my build in order to actually dish out respectable damage, but I'd rather not put up with Rage and Hasten in the same build. Rage is a lot easier to put up with when I don't even have to think about using it. I also would rather not take Pyre Mastery because it doesn't fit thematically. I'm not a big fan of Hurl either because unlike Foot Stomp and Mighty Judgement, it doesn't function with Hover at all, even at ground level. Which seems like an oversight, but I don't know if the HC dev team wants to fix it.

Was sort of hoping someone would reply with an example of an improved build instead of people coming in here to argue with each other about the endurance crash on Rage, or someone suggesting I reroll a character that I've had since before Homecoming had that one server wipe near launch. Street Justice is the only alternative to Super Strength I could consider because I'm not a fan of EM's or MA's animations, even MA's alternates. You can change some of the kicks to not look like kicks but I wouldn't really call them punches. Even then though, I don't know if I would like StJ's builder-spender rotation. And again, really don't feel like rerolling. I really don't use Kick, no. Like I said in my OP, I took the Fighting pool for Tough and Weave because I needed more defense and resistance bonuses. It really doesn't fit into my attack chain and deals poor damage relative to my other attacks. Hand Clap deals no damage at all but at least I can use it to keep knocking down enemies and interrupting their attack chains. If I could build in a different way to retain my almost literal invulnerability that didn't involve taking those powers, I'd love to learn how. Particularly if I can patch the Psi damage hole. I tried using positional defense caps to offset that, but I've read some enemies use abilities that don't have a positional defense check. It would be nice to know I was better protected from all forms of damage except the typeless stuff.

I haven't played the game in a while so I'm not up-to-date on all the latest changes, but glancing around at some other Invuln/SS Tanker builds that have been posted here, I'm wondering if I should rework mine at all. I would appreciate it if someone more experienced with theorycrafting could give me some pointers or tweak this build for me. Chief Concerns: I feel like my Resistance values could be higher, particularly where Psionic damage is concerned. I'd really like to avoid using Laser Beam Eyes for concept reasons. This character is inspired by Superman but heavily nerfed in terms of not having super-senses or a slew of utility powers like super-breath or heat vision. He flies, punches stuff, and is basically unkillable, but that's it. Ranged damage output is an intentional weakness. I realize that sounds dumb when talking about build optimization. I'd also like to improve my damage output, but I dropped Rage from an earlier build because I found it frustrating to work with, particularly with the endurance crash. I already have perma-Hasten so my single auto-cast power slot is full. Hover, Fly and Afterburner are important to me. Hover works really well for combat and general indoor flying, while Fly and Afterburner have enabled me to outrun some Super Speed and Super Jump characters after pushing all my IOs to +5. Any other pool powers are totally open to being swapped out, particularly the Fighting pool. Tough and Weave feel useful but Kick feels like it's just getting in the way because my attack chain is full without it. This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7 https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn Level 50 Science Tanker Primary Power Set: Invulnerability Secondary Power Set: Super Strength Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fighting Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery ------------ Level 1: Resist Physical Damage (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (3) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance (3) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance (5) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP Level 1: Jab (A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb (5) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage (7) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime (7) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime (9) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime (9) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime Level 2: Temp Invulnerability (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (11) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance (11) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance (13) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime Level 4: Dull Pain (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance (17) Panacea - Heal (17) Panacea - Heal/Endurance (19) Panacea - Endurance/Recharge (19) Panacea - Heal/Recharge (21) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge Level 6: Haymaker (A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All) (21) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge (23) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge (23) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage (25) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge (25) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge Level 8: Resist Elements (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (27) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance (27) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance (29) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime Level 10: Unyielding (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime (29) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance (31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance (31) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance Level 12: Taunt (A) Mocking Beratement - Recharge (31) Mocking Beratement - Taunt (33) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge (33) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge/Range (33) Mocking Beratement - Accuracy/Recharge Level 14: Resist Energies (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime (34) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance (34) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance (34) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance Level 16: Fly (A) Flight Speed IO Level 18: Hover (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed Level 20: Knockout Blow (A) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance (36) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge (36) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge (36) Hecatomb - Damage (37) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge Level 22: Invincibility (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance (37) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge (39) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Recharge (39) Luck of the Gambler - Endurance/Recharge Level 24: Kick (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge Level 26: Tough (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All) (39) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3% Level 28: Weave (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed (40) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage (40) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All) Level 30: Maneuvers (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed Level 32: Hand Clap (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown (40) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge (42) Absolute Amazement - Stun (42) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff (42) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge (43) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge Level 35: Hurl (A) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative) (43) Apocalypse - Damage (43) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge (45) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge (45) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge (45) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance Level 38: Foot Stomp (A) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance (46) Armageddon - Damage (46) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge (46) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge (48) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge Level 41: Tough Hide (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge Level 44: Hasten (A) Recharge Reduction IO (50) Recharge Reduction IO (50) Recharge Reduction IO Level 47: Afterburner (A) Flight Speed IO Level 49: Conserve Power (A) Recharge Reduction IO Level 1: Gauntlet Level 1: Brawl (A) Accuracy IO Level 1: Sprint (A) Run Speed IO Level 2: Rest (A) Recharge Reduction IO Level 2: Swift (A) Run Speed IO Level 2: Hurdle (A) Jumping IO Level 2: Health (A) Miracle - +Recovery (13) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery Level 2: Stamina (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End (15) Performance Shifter - EndMod (15) Endurance Modification IO Incarnates Level 50: Support Radial Embodiment Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon Level 50: Paralytic Core Flawless Interface Level 50: Mighty Radial Final Judgement Level 50: Longbow Core Superior Ally ------------ https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1523&c=687&a=1374&f=HEX&dc=78DA6594CB6F125114C6EFC020F2B2500A7DF028D00750DA81B15DF84A5CD8DA584B6C8271DB607B85B13825408D2C4DAC8FAD9B2EFD0FFC07DCBA76E1ABAD2E5DFB48D4A8718107CE17203209FC2EDF39F79C6FCE9D217F6FD9FD7CF5FE45A1B82F558AF5FAE6F5A2B9236BF6C29621CD2D29DA979D3E51D63797E52D69D6A576C5BCBB573165AD78D3A8188D6608E1BCAC48A915F6AAB42E346AD22C35CAC2B5B1BB5BD12E578C52B9E1E1757B6998A5A1CEAF7559DC96B57AD9A83A3BBF0B5529B7FD2B55634B5BA116A5E666BE586FC85A738C8C64E8F3DA415F4ADB5ACB2A7E5885D05561F909FE62AA7F98F34E81AB65134F548E3D609E780CEE334F3E041F31DF501F057D14F471A28F137DDCBF996F29D78A3ED6386BDE1818660E47C028736492A991471BF6DA3E2276CC0C7E00DF33C70EC123E63BEA6B87473B3C4EC0E3043C86E1F1455A0807721DD0C2C889624F1435B2E4C9C59E54D71D0BC7CACC9801DE06779887E4C583FA1ED48FA35E1CF5E3E8E7A2A76A88EB8BA129D1D11CA4F978BFF005948EA6930F3F7CF8E7B8CF540A4C83B3CCE924F3887C043A07D75203A833ED05FDCC591F38CCB450EF51F819DDE73A56D2C6D98F327E9A7DCF8E9210A1678862218E5942E891FCCE39C9AB4C1FE544703F11E4E4E87E2671D6939F54E473BFF41A780D5C67CEE5998BB43781BD091DB1797081399F053530C75CA2BD3398E3CC05D616CE8067C173CCEC79E631CD3185F34CC17F7604C43C75CC3341F79AC13C32193E4FFD3F8AA0101A66ACE1CC9FD1A872D072C84BABDDF7BB1556BBEFAF10131C5FEFD71658DB50B1853405753E3BBBEFAF5090F7A55F4BB1F6B5A729CA1A2D92F45EDFE0FBFAD68B5994039ECBA9A7608CF7CFF5FB69D12572038A3EA02C0E284B038AC3DBFD5769BDA4A3D73195037F6FFD37D85BBFEAD3CBE9DE7A38D05BFF03506AE393

Honestly I'd just like the option to get rid of Rage. One of my problems with Super Strength right now is that SS is balanced around having basically perma-Rage, and I'd rather it be optional like Build Up is for all the other sets. In its current form it's more like Dominator's inherent clicky power, but there's no crash when Domination wears off and you don't need to use up a power slot in your build to take it. I'd rather have my baseline damage baked into my powers. I've already got Hasten set to auto-cast, so it's a bit annoying to have to keep clicking Rage just to get "normal" damage values. This is why I like Build Up, because if I don't want to take it, I'm not harshly penalized because Build Up isn't intended to be on all the time.

Thanks for crunching the numbers, @Galaxy Brain. Hopefully the Homecoming team reads your post, it's very informative. Assuming major changes can't be made directly to Super Strength because they'd alienate players who enjoy the current Rage-stacking meta, it would be great if this data could be used to draw up an alternative powerset for players like myself that would prefer a more consistent version of Super Strength. If Rage was replaced by a normal Build Up-style power, could the "Bruising" effect of this theoretical powerset be raised further?

Aside from the specific Sonic-flavored theme of the powers, yes. My intent was to offer an alternative to Super Strength for players who want to smash things with a heavy melee set, but don't like how Rage works and might prefer a more support-oriented variant of Super Strength without the combo-based nature of Street Justice. As long as it has thematic similarities to Super Strength but doesn't have wonky animations like Kinetic Melee, I don't really care what it's called. Trading in the knockbacks for knockdowns is also fine with me. Mostly it just seems like a rework to Super Strength won't fix the problems I have with it, and I don't want to propose removing Rage since some people like it the way it is now. So I thought it would be helpful to propose a variant of Super Strength that skews in a different direction from the Hulk-like nature of double-stacking Rage.

All of that is a lot more work to implement, though. What I am proposing is distinct from Super Strength mechanically in that it's basically "Sonic Melee" but with similar animations to Super Strength. It could provide a thematic fantasy that is similar to Super Strength, but more easily proliferated to other ATs that have always wanted Super Strength but couldn't have it because of the Rage mechanic causing balance problems.

I'm a big fan of Super Strength thematically, but I'm not really happy with the way it works on paper because of how it was designed around maximizing Rage uptime. The set has subpar damage output without Rage active, and I really don't like the crash. I understand why the crash has to be there, but it would be nice to not be forced to use Rage. I know Street Justice is an option, but I don't care for the combo-based playstyle it has. So I'd like to propose an alternative. Would it be feasible to create a sort of duplicate version of Super Strength (perhaps called Might) with Rage replaced by an ordinary Build Up power? The current Rage-based Super Strength has more of a Hulk-like theme to it, giving the user high damage output but repeatedly subjecting them to windows of virtually no damage. Instead of coming up with a new combo gimmick like Street Justice and a lot of the other newer powersets have, it could be given a more traditional secondary effect. Since Super Strength doesn't have a combo system or a secondary effect, this new powerset could be given a -Res debuff effect similar to Sonic Blast attacks. I feel this would work well thematically. The idea being that characters with Might do not rely on a "berserker rage" to deal damage, but instead use their immense strength to shatter their opponent's defenses through precise, methodical blows. The difference between someone like the Hulk and someone with super strength that utilizes a more refined technique, like Superman. It would also bring an element of team support to the set that echoes the old Bruising mechanic, but Might would be available to more ATs, not Tanker-exclusive. I'm not a game developer, so I don't know if this set would be easy to balance properly between the different melee ATs. I know people have been eager to see Super Strength proliferated to Scrappers, but Might could be a good alternative because it's built without the Rage mechanic. I'm just interested in having a set to play with that emulates Super Strength thematically while not requiring Rage to deal decent damage or relying on combo rotations like Street Justice, and I also miss the team support aspect of Bruising, so I thought it'd be neat to have a Smashing melee set with similar debuff properties to Sonic Blast. Anyway, what do you all think?

What was the point of increasing the target cap for Foot Stomp and Hand Clap while leaving their radii alone? These changes are extremely watered down from the first pass, and even then they felt insufficient to address the gaps between Tanker and Brute performance at endgame. What's the point of being forced to take useless T1 powers now like Jab, without Bruising?

Only reason they'll not notice it's missing is because the amount of -Res it provides is so low that it can only really be appreciated while soloing, but I think an opportunity was missed to augment the team support capability of Tankers by buffing Bruising. Why shouldn't they be a force multiplier like Defenders if Tankers and Defenders are both designed for team play?

If your characters have 90% damage resistance and a 5% chance to be hit, you shouldn't be worried about their HP. If they don't have both of those things, then you're cherry-picking my post. 45% defense (or 65% for Incarnate content) isn't enough to make you invincible, but combined with capped resistance it is. Extra HP is just padding out your stats at that point. It's silly to harp on HP as the defining advantage Tankers have over Brutes when other stats diminish the actual effectiveness of that sole advantage. If you're hitting harder than a Tanker and not taking any appreciable level of increased damage in return, you're objectively better than a Tanker in any way that really matters. Buffing AoE is a good start, but eliminating Bruising in favor of a purely selfish damage increase doesn't make a Tanker more attractive in a group setting. And the buffs to support abilities like the Leadership pool are negligible, especially considering you'll find Leadership buffs more commonly used by ATs that aren't Tankers. Using my own builds as an example, I have a Dominator that runs all 3 toggles plus Vengeance. My Tanker can't fit anything past Maneuvers in his build.

I fail to see the relevance of increased hit points when a Tanker and Brute have both achieved def/res caps and the Brute deals more damage. HP is basically irrelevant if you're only getting hit 5% of the time and resisting 90% of the hits you do take. Barring extreme edge cases like Hamidon where your defensive stats are purposefully invalidated, the Brute will consistently outperform the Tanker at their stated group role. The fact remains that Brutes and Tankers were never balanced to coexist. Homecoming has inadvertently shone a bright light on these imbalances because of how much easier it is to put together top-tier builds here than it ever was on Live. Just buffing Tanker AoE and calling it a day isn't going to fix the problem.

Hopefully the individual Tanker sets will be reviewed quickly after this patch goes live. I'm still not happy about Bruising being gone, but the AoE buffs will be nice. I just liked the thematic feel of Bruising and feel like it could have been buffed to increase the team support capability of Tankers. It doesn't seem like these changes are enough to fully close the gap between Tankers and Brutes. Brutes will still do more damage against single targets while retaining equivalent defenses to Tankers. Playing Super Strength just feels very...not super. I don't like dealing with the debuffs attached to Rage, so I removed it from my build, but without it the set may as well be called Impotent Nerd Rage. And Hurl's interaction with flight powers is still broken. It should be able to be used while flying at surface height, like Foot Stomp and Mighty Judgment.

Any idea when the next round of changes will hit beta? It's been a month but it seems like all that's happened in all that time is the reversion of the change that allowed for Rage crashes to be avoided. Plus the removal of Bruising and the extra endurance for Tankers.

Scrappers do not need Taunt powers at all. They are not intended to soak damage, otherwise they'd have higher resistance caps. They're just not intended to be squishy, either.