Neiska

Speaking only for myself, I wasn't really bothered by the -def, as I was never really a fan of farming fire maps anyway. Its easy to get started with fire maps, but I just prefer S/L farmers because they are useful for things outside of specifically fire farming. Fire farming was likely faster, but I have more options with other kinds. And again only for myself here, what the biggest hurdle was for me was how they changed how group aggro works - no longer will they sit and wait if you are at aggro cap, they will pewpew ranged attacks at you. Which does make sense, but it changed how to farm efficiently. But the funny thing is there are far faster/more efficient ways now than before. I won't elaborate on the details because I imagine they would come down on those as well. It's one of those "well if you figured it out, you figured it out" things. Suffice to say, what affects players outside of farming, also affects players inside of farming, both the good as well as the bad.

After that last post of theirs, I just added them to the list I simply won't interact with anymore. Suffice to say, if they felt the need to go off on a tandem, mayhap there is more to what I said than they let on. Because God forbid people like something else or point things out, apparently. Best for me just not to engage with them anymore.

Let's see here - if you took the time to actually read what I posted, I said 2020. Never said anything about before that. In fact I only started playing during Covid. Never played before that. And I never played live. But if you want specifics IIRC I forget which update it was, but they reduced its ST in exchange for more AoE, it was around the Tanker "oopsie" when they overcorrected tankers I believe. And considering that every single one of my fire builds did more, faster, with less expensive builds back then than today... Yep. Pretty certain it's worse. In fact one of my best Tankers was a Bio/Fire melee. Now? Lol.... "We made it better!"

Cool story Bruh. Shame it's not true.

Well, according to some people, they have never nerfed stuff. Only buffed. Even if the math is negative or things take longer. Still a buff. Magically. Somehow. Don't ask me to elaborate, because I don't understand it either.

I wasn't trying to dissuade anyone? And, no. They have not - Titan Weapons - measurably worse. One regards as one of the King melee sets, now it's middle of the pack. And I would use this as a specific example of the "screw you in particular" so called "buffs." When CoH was super popular during the 2020s you could throw a stone and bounce it off at least 5 Titan/Bio Scrappers. Now? I haven't seen one in a year. Legitimately. No exaggeration there. So if the purpose of a buff is to stop people from playing that combination, well, I suppose we can agree there? RoP - Can no longer reduce recharge, removed as a tool for semi-buff and turned into a break-free with resist. Robot MMs - ..."lol screw MMs aoe?" Radiation Melee - Irritated Ground nerf. No procs for you. Burn - "No knockdown for you." Plant - "Oh you like having a strong power? Screw you. Now they are all equally bad. Progress!" Shield Defense - "Oh, you think it's cool being able to charge from hide? Not anymore." Fire Melee - "We don't like farmers, so screw you. In fact screw you in particular." You have an odd idea of what constitutes as a buff. But it's fine if we don't agree on this, I didn't expect to. But I find the notion that the game has been made measurably better or improved for everyone to be just plain factually dishonest.

@Arbegla - Honestly? Looks like I will be playing my Crabbermind a lot more now.

I know you and I agree on most things arcane, but I kind of have to disagree on this if you look at everything going back 5 years to today. Here's a few nerfs off the top of my head - Titan Weapons Rune of Power Brute Farming Robot MMs Radiation Melee Burn from Fire Mastery Plant Control Sonic Blast Shield Defense Fire Melee etc. And most buffs have not been buffs strictly speaking. They add one thing but take something else away. That isn't a "buff." That is an exchange. The number of things that have been unilaterally improved without losing something in exchange is few in number. (Spines being an example in this patch, its 100% been improved across the board, which is actually surprising to see.) And it's kind of funny that for all these "buffs" I find myself at more and more of a disadvantage, doing less damage, or the same activities taking longer than it used to be. This also applies to some things that aren't even powers, like Merit exchanges and so on. And speaking personally for myself, the more they change things the less I find myself enjoying CoH. Simply because the direction things seem to be going is "No fun allowed" and "You are going to do the activities we want you to. If you do not you will be left behind, by design. We won't punish you, we will just give everyone else more rewards/bribe them" such as them reducing things from AE (more than once), prismantics, etc. I am 90% a solo player. So perhaps I notice/feel these things more than most. But if you compare everything that has been changed and look at it from a solo vs team perspective, well, it is kind of telling. And just the fact they seem to hyper focus not on the top performing things or even the meta, but instead what is popular kind of tells me that it isn't really about balance at all. Especially when they do complete overhauls to things, but some ATs struggle to even solo +3/8 at level 50 and beyond and have done so for quite some time now. HEATs/VEATs as another example here. You can take almost any Tank or Brute step and make builds that can even go AFK at 4/8, meanwhile some ATs need very specific powers or a ton of INF to do the same thing, even if it's worse. Anyway, point being from where I sit, it's more like 10% Buffs/50% nerfs/40% exchanges, from a soloist viewpoint and not from this one change but all the changes going back to 2020.

Also a fair point. Id say it stands with the rest far as damage is concerned, but I would argue that it also provides the most defense and defense protection. So in a way, it's like this (not ranking them, just comparing what they bring) - Bio - Stacking regen buffs, absorb, damage Shield Defense - Defense, defense protection, damage Radiation - Heals, absorb, resistance, damage Fire Armor - Resist, heal, damage

Still think this is the biggest nerf - I mean, here are some things to consider (Current stats) - Debuffs - - ZERO DDR, Recovery, Perception, ToHit, and Regen Debuff protection. -"some" Endurance, Recharge, and Speed Debuff protection *Note* - Currently, stances have no effect at all on Status or Debuff protection. Status Protections - - Held, Stunned, Sleep, Immobilized, Knockback - Zero ToHit, no Accuracy Buffs. Buffs - - Damage, Endurance Reduction (Stance Based) Core - - "Some" Defense, "Some" Resists, "A lot" of regeneration/recovery, "a lot" of Absorb. - Damage Toggle. So overall, running just normal things, this set as an Armor Set, is IMO "middle ground." There are certainly other sets that are tougher. But this Armor Set is more offensive than most, with only Fire and Radiation roughly equaling it. But the only way this Set can function in harder content, is by juggling Carapace, DNA, and Parasite. Even with best recharge, you will have gaps in coverage. But Parasite is the main sustain ability, giving a stacking buff per target hit. It lasts 45 seconds and has a 270 recharge. However, with it reduced to 30 seconds, and adding 30 to its recharge is absolutely harsh. Even with FF procs you can't maintain the normal full rotation of regeneration/recovery buffs, much less with an offensive set like Dual Blades or Street Fighting where you are also juggling combo systems. The other changes are hit or miss, being kind of mixed. But this direct nerf to the T9 which is the main source of the sets sustain is a direct kick to the unmentionables, and brings the set from a solid S or A tier to a B or C tier, simply because the only two things the set has going for it is a constant stream of recovery/regeneration, and a damage bonus. This change is going to create a window where there is no button/power to cycle. In a set that already stumbles in higher content due to lack of other things that some of the Armor Sets provide. I don't think anyone is surprised by the nerf, but this is more than a nerf, its a squash. IMO a better route wouldn't be to create gaps in the cycles of buff coverage, but instead to reduce the "value" of buffs/powers being cycled. But this change to parasite coupled with some of the other changes feels like a triple-nerf, honestly. And there isn't really any other options or powers a player can take to make up. With other armor sets, if there is not enough +DEF, you can take things like Katana or Titan Weapons that give +DEF, and so on. But this? No real options. Rune of Protection does help, but most do not take that power, and an armor set shouldn't rely on other power pools to be functional. I really wish I was a fly on the wall for the discission that went into this. Was it a "this set needs a nerf so we are just going to reduce everything" discussion, or did they actually have a discussion about how this set would play under duress at higher levels of content, such as a cascading failure scenario. If you are utterly debuffed, even a fully PRESENT T9 parasite aura will not save you. You can stall, but unless you have inspirations or something else, you are going to splat. I genuinely wish the Devs would explain exactly how they expect this set to perform or be played with these changes. Seriously. Give us some examples for context here, because this isn't a tweak or a numbers-adjustment, this is flipping the table. How do they expect people to build/slot this set to function on the newer difficulties where everyone and their brother debuffs you. Even on live, the harder the difficulty the worse off this set is, due to mediocre core and status protection, but very "meh" on everything else.

For me it depends - If I am power leveling an alt in a rush to try a new build? Use it all the way to 50. If it's one of my "enjoy the journey" characters doing as many story/ouros missions as possible, I'll never use it. If its a powerset thats new to me or one I don't have a lot of experience with, I usually prefer to "slow-mo" the leveling process for practice/tests/so on. etc. So, depends on the character really. Might use it all the way to 50, may not use it at all. I make/play different ATs/power combinations for different reasons.

Looking forward to the next round of -10% damage/-20% damage/+1 minute on my timer then. 😆 Prediction - "We have enabled Pet Customization! But all pets do -20% damage and are no longer able to trigger proc effects." + Supremacy gaining +10% Resistance, +100% Regeneration and +10% AoE Defence to henchmen? - We lost value on our Pet Aura ATOs. Which is still give and take. Not a buff. + Henchmen gaining an additional +10% of your Set Bonuses? - Minimal effect at best, previously discussed elsewhere. Nice but it's more like sprinkles than a feature. + Henchmen gaining a +75%/+100%/125% Defense buff (depending on the tier) for several seconds after summoning? - Quality of life change. Nice, prevents death loops. In theory. Bbbuuttt this is the thing that's already, well, "broken" that some might call an exploit. And, if discovered, I expect this to be possibly removed. + Beasts self-heal gaining 67% strength and many of their attacks having reduced cast time for improved DPA? - Nice touch, I am no Beast expert, but I believe it was the recharge on their attacks that were the issue - IE gaps in their attack chains, where they just stand and do nothing? Not sure there. But at least Beasts getting looked at, which is nice.

Let's not get into the pylon argument. I consider them a ballpark figure at best, not something to bet the farm on, or even use as the sole metric to balance things on. Because actual combat, enemies don't just stand there and take it. They buff. They debuff. They CC. They move. They fight back. Etc. Seeing how fast you can reduce a HP bar is hardly full considered aspects of combat. And, even if they were, so what? Pets die in combat. They don't die fighting a pylon. And having a pet dead, greatly impacts a MMs damage. So I find that kind of sus already? There is no open world combat where there is an AV or GM that will just stand there and let a MM and their pets just whack away on them without loosing pets or having to heal etc. And I am not assuming things have to be "unilaterally buffed." But I take a pretty dim view on having more than 5 total minutes added to my favorite activities from all the changes come to pass over the past 3(ish?) years, and everyone heralding it as a buff. That isn't a buff. So why do things that MMs needed, tweaks and adjustments, purple patches QOL stuff, require us loosing damage to implement? Why must it always be give and take? Not once has it been just a "give."

You are missing the point... anytime they give us something, something else is taken away. They give us QOL things? Loose your Marine stuff. Never is something been unilaterally buffed, without something else being removed. The QOL stuff is nice and was needed (though someone has already figured out a way to break it, so that didn't take very long.) But IMO this does not make up for what the last patch did. You will never convince me, no matter what your math says, that somehow me taking 3 minutes longer to clear a map is an upgrade or buff. Personal attacks? Well, the English Language is difficult for me to fully express my opinions about them, but I shall try (And I do hope they might even share this at their meetings, if they even have them) - - I would sooner be dragged behind a 747 screaming through the sky over the Pacific Ocean while the aircraft was actively combusting and being piloted by a drunken rodeo clown with a nose full of no-no snow, than actively play/rely on of these MM personal attacks. That is roughly about how much spite I have for them. A class focused on pets, should not be reliant on personal attacks to make it viable, and nor should they be balanced on using them, which is what I suspect they are doing. Because for builds that do not take them, this has been nearly 2 years of constant punches to the gut. The only MM attacks that I like, is the Necromancer. Because it makes spirits, which is very neat and thematic. The rest? See above. Real talk - MMs were never OP in the damage department. Even if you built the best MM possible for damage, it still wasn't setting any records. So who looks at a race, then looks at the one in 6th place and goes "Hey, that guy is going too fast. So lets give him new shoes, but we are going to give him a -1 minute penalty to his time." In closing - we find ourselves agreeing to disagree as per usual. So, see you next round of lateral demotions I guess? 😆

But to those of us that don't take personal attacks? Its a big middle finger. The quality of life stuff is nice. No argument there. Marine? lol.... Beast? Don't particularly care about. They have been dead last, and I expect they will remain there, this is a band aid at best. Still nice they are thinking of them, but lets not pretend this will make them on par with Thugs, Demons, or Mercs. No. They didn't buff. As always, the gave some stuff, and took other stuff away. Like always? And at this point? I fully expect them to buff the damage on all the attacks and further reduce pet damage, before they fix pet damage.

Oh, some MM Quality of life stuff. This must be the super-duper stuff that was being hinted at? Neat! But wait.. what's this? Oh. Look! More damage nerfs. Grand! Can we agree on the "lateral demotion" term now? "You get these things you asked for, but we are going to take other stuff away!" 🤣

And just like that, I can hear many Shield Stalkers suddenly scream into the oblivion as they are moved to the back of folks character pages, snuffed out like candles in the wind.

Ah ah ah, we aren't allowed to complain about MM DPS remember? These must be the super great fantastic changes that were rumored! "Oh, you thought we were done thrashing your pet dps? Ha! That was only our first form. Have another damage nerf!"

You may be speaking tongue-in-cheek, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case. I don't think anyone is surprised bio is getting nerfed, but this is like a quadruple nerf. Separating slow and recharge debuff resists to different stances? Lowering the uptime on the t9 from 90 seconds to 30 seconds and increasing its recharge? Only primary target gets full debuff, everything else 30%? I mean, 1 or 2 changes might be doable. But this is like flipping the table IMO. If they wanted to address it being over tuned, they would have done far better just reducing the buff stacks and left the rest alone. This? I suspect this will take bio from one of the best to the bottom 25% of armor. And it was only in the top to begin with once you had a lot of recharge, leveling bio is actually pretty painful to do. Only when you have enough recharge to continuously cycle buffs is it Great. So, I can only wait to hear the feedback from the folks who actually try to legitimately level bio in this state.

Happy to see Spines get some attention. Thematically and mechanically always loved the set, even if it was one of the lowest performing ones. Also happy to see them lean more into the Dot aspect of it, which kind of makes it unique among the melee sets.

I am genuinely curious - how does the devs expect this set to be played or perform? Because these changes are effectively exact opposite of what all the conventional wisdom about the set is now. The only reason why the set can stand with the big armor sets is from stacking recharge and buff-stacking. Without cycling the buffs, Bio is a mediocre armor set. Go ahead and level one up if you want to feel it for yourself. Only when you get reach the point of enough recharge to continuously cycle Parasite - Carapace - DNA - Other tools to fill gaps does it get strong.

Masterminds - overall, awesome changes. Spines - really happy to see this set get some love. Despite it being almost dead last for performance, it was one of my favorite for theme and mechanics. Bio - Hokay... not gonna lie. I expected this one to get nerfed at some point, but this.. strikes me as absurdly harsh. Particularly the buffs from the main way it survives by buffstacking - reduced to 30 seconds? And the recharge increased from 270 to 300 seconds? I am not sure how they even expect this to be played now, honestly. The only reason it performed so great was when you had enough recharge to have a continuous cycle of buffs. Until you reach that point, Bio is actually a mediocre set at best. If you want to re-balance it, you shouldn't mess with that, but instead reduce the "potency" of the stacks. But as this reads, the math isn't mathing. I expect this to make bio fall from one of the good endgame armors to middle-ish ground. Especially since the way it works now is by combining all the powers together, but now with the overall "X only does Y when in Z stance" is kind of a double whammy as far as effectiveness goes.

Personally, I don't buy a whole lot these days. Mostly because by now I have several copies of anything important like purple sets and ATO's. Whenever I want to make a new character, I often check my storage and/or old alts I no longer play and often enough I can fully equip a new character entirely for free. At most I may need to buy some un-slotters with merits, but that's about it. And since I run AE often, the inf I do have really only keeps growing to the point I no longer really even keep track of it. At this point anything I do put up for sale I just put up for like 1000 inf because it's not worth my time to go searching for the price of each and every 40+ item each time I pause to do some housekeeping. I would rather just make a profit and move on with my activities. A lot of the time, it isn't how much inf/money you make, it's how much you spend. If you don't spend much, then anything you make is a net gain. It's really kind of win-win.

I present a live image from the Beta Testing Servers -