Neiska

And I did? I didn't speak on the topic again after the dm posted. You are the one who dug it back up?

I will only respond by suggesting you read Googly's post on the previous page. 👍

I kind of saw it the same way as well, and tried to demonstrate such in a manner as, well, "curtly" as possible. The post was removed. (shrug) Which is the GMs prerogative/judgement call. But there isn't any need to speak about them like they weren't here or present either. I think we are above that. Or at least, I hope. Except Snarky. Snarky is well below that. 6 feet below. In a coffin. During daylight hours.

....what? I have 3 accounts with 10+ level 50s on each. On the vast majority of them, I have never engaged on pvp with. Not once. I have been affected by GF, multiple times. A few of them are built around the concept, some are not. I would say I have more control over pvp than wither or not GF affects me. Just as you can say "you should use the null to avoid GF", I can say to you "why don't you just lead or play by yourself?" The difference here, is that I'm not expecting 500+ people to all go to an npc and turn off GF for a personal choice which is entirely optional. But regardless, we are going in circles here. Lets agree to disagree. Use GF if you want, but don't be surprised if the team lead boots you. Unless of course, you are the leader yourself. And I for one tire of going in circles. Regardless of what you and I think, the team leader will largely do as they like.

1. Ah, but why is that only one way? Why is it that OTHERS must accept group fly might be used on them, and not YOU must accept that most of the team may find it unwelcome? 2. You can only actively stop GF from affecting you proactively. Not retroactively during a mission. And, yes, you can stop people from actively ganking you, by simply not going to the pvp zone in the first place. Ultimately, its up to the team leader. If they say its okay, then its okay. If they say it isn't, then it isn't. Regardless of your take on it. And them booting you for doing it after being asked to stop is "part of the game" which has the higher authority on the matter. Its not like you have any way of forcing a team leader to accept it, but they most certainly can boot you for using it.

Or you could turn it on, and when asked to turn it off then do so? Or even perhaps ask in team chat "hey, does anyone mind if I use group fly?" No shitting on anyone necessary. But the thing is, I can't recall once in nearly 4 years of playing CoH, of anyone asking in team chat "hey can I use group fly?" Which suggests to me that the answer to that most of the time would be "no please don't." And since the answer will likely be no, people don't ask. They just use it. And then get upset when others are irritated by it. But that is just me musing aloud. Both sides of the topic can be rude about it. Personally, I say its team leaders call. If they say yes, then use it. if they say no, then don't. If you don't like them saying no, you can leave. If I am not okay with them saying yes, then I can leave. But let's not pretend that any and all people who use group fly are the "victims" here. I use group fly myself, when solo. Rarely used in teams unless the mission/tf needs it. But some people absolutely REFUSE to turn it off, regardless of how others are affected. Which is sort of why it causes many people to cringe when it's used. That, and many other people just plain don't like it.

It is difficult to know if this is sarcasm, or a serious attempt to make a valid point. Especially since that issue has been dragged across-topics before. But I shall treat it as legitimate and reply as such. One difference is, is you CHOOSE to enter a PVP zone. You opt out of default, by not entering the PVP zone. Someone doesn't CHOOSE to be affected by group fly. You made that choice FOR them. A choice that they must opt OUT of. "It's just part of the game" is irrelevant. What is stopping anyone from keeping you phased/intangible constantly, so the only powers you can use are self-affecting? To some builds, such as a Seismic Corruptor or Stone Tanker, the effect is quite similar. And while true, it's "part of the game," you do yourself no favors and win no friends in doing such things. It would be like being the player in a tabletop game who always shows up playing a murderhobo sort of character, always killing plot npcs, de-railing the story, wasting the DMs time, the other players time, in their need to constantly be the center of attention, even if its negative attention. And then wonder why they aren't welcome back. If someone did that at my game, they certainly wouldn't be welcome back. In short - the difference is personal agency. Or "choice." When using group fly on other people, you are "choosing" for them. And I do hope this post was sarcasm, because if not it is the OceanGate of comparisons.

I generally go by the saying - “know the water you choose to swim in.” If you are in a pvp zone, you are in essence consenting to it with your presence. You can “ask” others to leave you be, but it’s ultimately their choice. If they want to pvp, it’s certainly within their prerogative to do so. Another way I think of it as a non-pvper, is that if I’m in a pvp zone, I’m a guest in “their” house, or on “their” turf. Now, I have pvp’d before, but mostly it’s just goofing off with friends, chasing each other with wifflebats and the like. But the good news is, is the penalty for losing pvp is nonexistent. You can immediately respawn and leave if it’s not your bag. And the few times I have gotten involved with the pvpers it honestly wasn’t an unpleasant experience. I feel kind of bad for them at times, as far as I’m aware there has been next to zero pvp things added on HC. (I could certainly be mistaken here, not a pvper.) It might be neat if there was a tournament or league for those players to participate in. Like something that resets every few months and they could win titles or something.

My knowledge of game coding and such is pretty limited. Kind of bummed it's not really possible without making a whole new power, which is unfortunate.

Now I find myself wondering if the best fix would be just to give an option with Null to make group fly apply to just yourself and pets. That way the onus isn't on everyone else, but the person who want's the power. The person who uses the power themselves can just select "affect other players off." Kind of an everyone wins solution. The player who wants group fly will have it. So will their pets. Other players who don't wish to be affected won't be randomly by strangers. If the player is going to do an activity that group fly is needed, like Hami, they can always turn it back on when they decide to do that activity, then turn the affect team off again when they are done.

Ya but no. No one is dumping on a player for picking a power. They are dumping on the player for using a power that negatively affects others and then crying when they get booted from the team after being asked to stop but didn't. And in many people's opinion, rightly so. And now it's being turned into "help they are poking fun of me for my poor decisions!" and "no, I can use this power whenever I wish, others have no right to complain they are negatively affected by it!" Spoiler alert - if YOU pick a power and USE it and it NEGATIVELY affects other people and continue to do so after being asked to stop, then YOU are the problem here. The fixes is fairly simple - either play alone, make your own team, or god FORBID - actually ASK in team chat "hey anyone mind if I use group fly" before using it. Because, you know, apparently trying to play and team well with others is such a hardship. But NOoo... instead it's - "How DARE they not abide by my personal choices that affect them negatively! Quick! TO THE FORUMS! THE INTERWEB SHALL MOST CERTAINLY HEAR OF THIS!"

I care more about the enjoyment, the team getting along, and how much bs is in the mission/arc than the reward. If I want rewards, I can get much more my way on my own. Not saying they can’t be adjusted, it’s just not a priority for me. If my focus is on getting resources, I’d just rather do it alone.

Three thoughts- 1. The forums and discord need not be either/or. Many use both. 2. For all the claims of ages of users, I am interested in the source of this claim. Pray tell, let’s see some sources and citations on that. 3. My third and final thought is how in the heck is this thread still going?

I heard you really have to watch out for sitting down before the last person gets up!

Normally, I might agree. But when you use a power that affects more than one person, it’s not just about you anymore. And it’s not on everyone’s else (especially mid-mission) to use the Null option. Instead of being indignant and self centered, persons who are asked to turn it off by the team or leader should do so. Some teams may not mind it. I suspect most will. Personally, if a team leader asks me not to use a power, be it group fly or something else like fold space, then I don’t. That’s what being part of a team is. Even if such powers make YOU better, but is a detriment to everyone ELSE, then it’s a net loss. And it’s the leaders call to use it or not. And if you use it after being asked to stop, they are well within their right to remove you, because you are being a detriment to the team as a whole. It can be argued that anyone who wishes to use group fly on teams without the risk of getting booted can make their own team. Which is far easier for everyone involved than automatically expecting/demanding everyone uses the Null so you can use an optional power that is actually a detriment to a great many builds and powers.

a EM tank hits fairly hard for ST, and the AOE isnt terrible with the spin. My main tanker is EM/Bio, with both EMs strong ST damage and Bios damage boost it performs fairly well, particularly for a tanker.

Do agree that with whats already been said - Tankers tend to do better these days, better survivability, more aoe, etc. That said if you have your heart set on brute, my best brute is Savage/Bio. Bio is strong by itself, and savage works very well with it. First fury affects the bleed/dot damage, and its recharge boost makes bio even better. Others are good too, but that was my best Brute.

Snarky, I am curious. Do you just have a folder full of countless nosfetatu pics and memes to just whip out for any occasion? Just wondering. 😆

I take fold space sometimes, usually on my MM or my Crabby. When I use it I make sure to plant my butt next to the tank, or look for opportunities to pull more things into the aoe from the dps. Personally, I consider pulling mobs away from the tanker to be poor form. There are a few neat uses though. I like dropping an Omega Maneuver which taunts, then use fold space to pull more things in. My biggest gripe about fold space is its random targeting. Sometimes it hits things already on the tank, sometimes it hits things far away. Seems a bit random. I wish there was a bit more control, as in you could select a group or area to affect. That would allow for much more precision and control of what it affects.

So much for the legendary courtesy and manners of the Nosferatu, speak words we all understand!

Both Bots and Demons will be good. Demons/EA will be more durable, but Robots has more tactical options, IMO. Group fly and such. But a Demons/EA is one of the toughest MMs you can have, and honestly one of the toughest ATs you can make as far as staying power goes.

I wonder if there is a way for them to add a "toggle off" ability under such powers that affect other players. IE a way for them to turn it off when affected by such a power on the fly. Group Fly isn't the only power that causes problems when used on other players when it isn't wanted. And I don't mean Null the Gull, I mean if for example, they could have an extra button pop up somewhere when affected by team powers to turn it off then and there. There are also a few powers that can, well, be used in ways perhaps not intended, such as Teleport Target. There are certainly others as well that I will not mention here, but I am sure those in the know, know which one's I am talking about. AKA The "trolling tools." Not trying to add to the "is it right or wrong" topic, more wondering if it's possible for them to do something like that.

EA is indeed strong. By strong I don’t mean big numbers. It’s strong in the following ways - 1. Group status protection. Not unique to EA, but it is very noteworthy to have. 2. Group absorb. Not just for you and pets, but teammates as well. 3. AoE healing. Not the strongest of heals, but it’s fairly cheap to use and very fast to reuse. 4. Pretty much infinite endurance for you, your pets, and your team. This alone makes EA welcome on many teams. 5. An AoE -10% damage, and a single target 20% damage DeBuff, and yes these can stack. So EA is pretty much one of the best MM support secondaries. In my opinion it really begins to shine after incarnates, because usually people take status protection or endurance destiny, but you already have those. So you are free to pick barrier or-def protection, not something that many other builds can boast. So if you are looking for big numbers, EA may disappoint. But my EA MMs have outlived some tanks before, due to everything mentioned above and bodyguard mode. An EA MM has multiple layers of survival- +RES Heals Absorb Bodyguard mode Status protection End to spare These combined all in one neat little package is not something everyone can boast. And can be pushed even more, depending on your primary. EA powers are fairly fast to recharge, which some believe makes it a busy set. It “can” be, but doesn’t have to be. If your shield is up, no one needs healed, and End is good, you don’t “have “ to use a power. Sometimes I’ve found myself using non-EA abilities often. EA is a survival and support focused set. Not everyone likes that style, and that’s okay. But in terms of durability, EA is one of the best secondaries.

If you are working with your team, instead of against them, they will do the most of that for you. If your bots are in melee of the AV, then your tank/brute isn't doing their job, or possibly your group fly is making that more difficult than it needs to be? Either way, considering your attempt at ad hominem, coupled with your "me me me me", you proved yourself not worth my time responding to you further.