Neiska

@Two Dollar Bill- that screenie of all those spider team buffs makes me wana cry. 😂

Well, I'm sensing a bit of snark with a few peoples replies, which is what I had hoped to avoid. I don't think the AT is as good as some people are claiming it out to be. I am not sure what activates they are using to base their claims upon, and I would argue that the activity in question really matters when making such claims. And a few seem to be thinking I said things when I never did. I never asked for bodyguard mode, or MM commands/control. I never asked for a change in pets attacks, aside from maybe changing their attack types, or maybe changing one to an AoE attack. I even made it a point to mention several times that pet damage was fine. And I am sorry, but the claim of saying Crabbers are S tier ATs made me spit out my tea. I am not sure what people are comparing them to in order to say such a thing. Tankers, Brutes, and even Widows and Scrappers for example when well built can be entirely hands free on the hardest content. (I am not asking for crabbers to be this way at all, only using that as an example for AT comparison.) I also noticed some points of mine have never been addressed - -Support Hybrid "double effectiveness" bug doesn't work on pets. Thoughts? Should it be fixed, not for crabbers sake, but for all ATs with recharge pets? -Several of the Crabbers melee attacks are sub-par, even mentioned so by many people, several times, in any request for crabber build. Should these remain completely untouched? Because 99% of builds I see "never" use them, and if nobody ever uses them, what's the point of them? -Our pets while are good offensively, defensively they are sub par. Other Pet ATs are not forced to use incarnate powers in order to make their pets have capped defenses/good resistances, where crabbers are. Other ATs with pets get tools, heals, buffs, or some way to help their pets. Crabbers have only their toggles, making us entirely reliant on incarnates as our only tools for them. This is fine? -A lot of what people say "use suppression, frag grenade" and say that is a ton of aggro I find questionable, as I do exactly that, and my pets still end up dying, or else we wouldn't even be here. I would think we all aggre that 99% of all crabbers spam suppression and frag grenade on cooldown. -Some people pointed out "don't go into melee", which sort of makes me tilt my head. Because crabbers don't exactly do enough damage quick enough to keep them from running in, and don't have any baseline CC powers unless you take web grenade from mace, or electrical fences from Mu. But its more or less a moot point, because even if you CC things, your spiderlings are going to run in anyway, wither you are in melee or not. I mean spiderlings even chase a mob off and aggros the next group, and you cant even stop them from doing that. Melee pets, are gonna melee, because they have no other attacks, and you cant tell them to do otherwise. I am not out to paint crabbers as a terrible AT, I do agree they are fairly decent. They aren't the worst, but they certainly aren't the best either. And they certainly aren't worth the glowing reviews that people seem to be claiming. Some of which, makes me quite dubious. And I say this as a Crabber fan. It is difficult to give examples of what I am talking about, without being able to post videos to go by. But some of the comments here really make me scratch my head. I am not a fresh 50 crabber, as I said I have leveled 4 of them, my highest one is around vet level 40 with all of her main incarnates being T4 rank. I have played crabber quite a bit. Now I will admit that it can be a L2P issue, but people saying use 2 of the main attacks in the cycle and you will be fine, when its not, does make me giggle a little. I do think the melee abilities should be tweaked to make them worth taking and using, a single tool for pets would be a welcome addition, wither its a taunt, or a heal, or a cc ability, or "something" with the "baseline" AT power-set, so we aren't pigeon holed into specific incarnate abilities just to make our pets useable at higher difficulty content. But lets try some more direct questions then - 1. What destiny power do you use to keep your pets alive? Barrier, or Rebirth? 2. What Hybrid power do you use? Support? 3. Is there any truth to using Assualt Hybrid and then activating pets during its cycle? I recall reading that affects pets, but I don't see the buff icon on them anywhere. 4. Leviathan pool - worth using for the -toxic res stacking + bile spray for damage, or no? Again, I would like to underline that I am not saying the AT is bad or broken, only that there are room for improvements, certainly where viable builds are concerned, because as it stands everyone is more or less shoe-horned into the same sort of build setups, which are - permapets, spam suppression, spam frag, get 2 or so high damage single target powers for bosses. But if there were few small tweaks made, I believe the AT is solid enough to open up other viable builds and playstyles. Best wishes

That is certainly possible @Omega-202. But as I said I like to think this is a healthy respectful discussion, and I make no claims to be the kiss elbow bestest crabber player. Anyway, here are the stats of the pets (mine at least) ingame - Spiderling - 30.94% defense (all) resistances - 40% s/l, 50% psi, 20% fire, cold, energy, negative, toxic resistance Disruptor - 30.94% defense (all) resistances - 30% S, L, 40% energy, 50% psi, 20% toxic, negative, fire resistance The defense calculations are as follows - 5% base defense, 16% Tactical Toggle, 4.95% Maneuvers, 5% edit of the master IO. And to be certain I double checked the Support Core t4 ingame, and it gives 12% defense. So with support core activated, everything has a 42% defense. Aside from barrier and pet resist aura IOs, there is nothing we can really do for their resists (solo at least.) So as far as the pets are concerned, the only way to I can keep them defense capped is to alternate Support Hybrid/Barrier, but even then they still end up dying on me, and since I used my incarnate slot on Barrier, I don't have rebirth or any way to really heal them. So what ends up happening, if I spawn them at the start of a spawn, they will last that spawn, but will get steamrolled on the next one. Or if I save them to pop them to help "mop up", they help me finish off the bosses/EBs, but then they get steamrolled on the next spawn. Far as the pet attacks go, the spiders just run in but that shouldn't surprise anyone. The Disruptors Shoot once or twice, and then run in themselves. I have even tried staying at range, by using things like Web Grenade to keep things away, but the Spiderlings and Disruptors still run in and get creamed, so its kind of a moot point. I would like to re-iterate that the pet damage feels fine, its just they cant really hold up for melee, for me when solo at least. It feels like an AI + attack type interaction. I mean, if you guys see something I am missing to keep my pets from dying every spawn then I am all ears. Because I have even tried a "Crabber Lord" sort of setup, to try and make pets as good as possible, and they still got creamed. I've even tried things like provoke, melee hybrid (for the taunt), with the thought that since I am far tougher than my pets, if I could keep enemies focused on me, the pets would live far longer. It wasn't that successful. I still think our T9 is pretty... bad. It has a 600 second cooldown, only does supreme damage, and has a fairly weak taunt. Its too long of a cooldown to really be useful as a taunt, and doesn't do any damage or debuffs. As I mentioned in my first post, the only way ive really found use for it was to use it as a sort of emergency taunt to try and save a pet thats about to die. But even then, the range on it is fairly small, and you have no control over what it taunts really. If you guys use this one regularly, I am all ears far as how/why on that as well. I do agree with all of you that Crabbers have a pretty solid AoE chain, nearly every attack is solid as far as AoE is concerned. Where it stumbles for me is when fighting elite bosses/boss ranks, they just take so long to die without my pets. And since they are already dead usually, I am stuck spamming my attacks until either the boss dies, or my pets come off recharge. Far as patron/epic pools go, I usually go for Mace Mastery mostly for the web grenade, shatter armor for bosses, and the thematic pet. I have read that Mu and/or Leviathan is the superior choice though. I have used Mu time to time, but I wasn't really impressed. The only attack that seemed good was Mu Lighting to help down bosses, but Shatter Armor from Mace Mastery seemed better for that. I have heard people tout Leviathans damage, pointing to the -toxic res from Artic Breath and Venom Grenade, and then using Bile Spray for the Toxic damage cone. I have not tried this yet, and it's sort of difficult to guess what the damage might be like in Mids. I still stand by my opinion about "attack bloat" for the crab attacks. I mean if its fine, why does so few people take things like slice, arm lash, etc, and pretty much every build I have seen both here in forums and in discord say all the crabber melee abilities are trash? If they are all trash, couldn't they be made better and worth using somehow? The only one that I personally use regularly is Frenzy, because its fantastic for farming. Anyway, I am not saying the AT overall is "bad" by any means. It is great for teams. I am just saying their solo game feels kind of a struggle. It takes so long to kill bosses/elite bosses for me solo on 4/8, that I either just turn them off or do missions on 3/8. But this is getting longer than I intended, I do hope that people will provide specific examples of what I may be missing or why they feel as they do. I mean, it very well could be a "L2P" issue, but I don't think that it is. I might be missing a tool or option, but if so I can't really think of anything that it could be. You guys say your pets are fine on 4/8 with bosses, but mine crumple like paper every other spawn, and no matter what I do or try, I can't make them solid enough to rely on. And since mine die, I suspect that's a huge chunk of my damage I'm missing, and why I stumble vs bosses/elite bosses when solo. But that's just me musing. Looking forward to replies. And nothing I posted is meant to offend, only to disagree and I really am hoping that there is either something I am missing out on or not doing correctly that you guys can point out. Because out of all my 50s my crabber is my favorite one to play, but also the only one who struggles on 4/8 solo, and it is kind of depressing. Best wishes!

I never said it was in a bad place. On teams it is pretty decent. Solo on the other hand, not so much. And its not its defenses that's the issue, its defenses are actually pretty solid. Its the lack of support options for pets as well as offence besides its aoe rotation. I am currently working on numbers to post but cant post them right this minute.

Well, lets agree to disagree then. I don't feel they are in a solid place at all, and I have leveled 4 of them now with around 8 different builds and setups in total. Not sure what content others do, but personally I find anything over 3/8 to be pretty tiedious. And not everyone wants to have a build with 3-4 spammed powers, focus entirely on recharge, for lackluster permaspider sort of builds.

Hello fellow Soldiers! I just wanted to post my musings and wishlists for the AT, if/when it ever recieves an update. "Crabber" is definately my favorte AT playstyle wise, but sadly it does seem to stumble a bit on higher level content, at least when solo. The upside is I have never been turned down for any team, and often people are pretty much "horray a crabber". But here are some things I just wish they would improve upon. I don't believe anything is really overpowering, but there are better folks than me with heads for maths who may say otherwise. I still have my fingers crossed that they consider this AT worth looking at, because last I looked not many people played them at all. But one can always hope! 1. The Pets. Compaired to other pets, I would say ours are fairly weak. Going to break this one down to a few sub-points. 1a. Pet fragility. Firstly, they are fairly fragile, even the "tanky" spiders. IIRC, their defenses (without barrier) end up around 32(ish)%. Aside from our toggles, we have no way to help them either unless you spend incarnates to do so. You are more or less forced to decide between Barrier or Rebirth, to either make them more defensive for a time, or to be able to heal them all once every 2 minutes. I have tried both, and on higher difficulties (4/8 w/ bosses) they still seem to die every other spawn. Most builds focus on achieving "permapet" status, which I never really understood if you are playing on easier content. But on harder content, it doesnt matter how fast they can be resummoned, as they are going to splat anyway. Suggested fixes: Maybe bump their base defenses just a little, it wouldnt take very much. I would say even a 5% bump would make a large difference. Or mabye a new recharge pet IO set with a new aura as well. Another fix that I would like considered would be some sort of "taunt" ability to be added to the crabber. The crabber can actually achieve near tank levels of resistance (85%), but has no way to capitalize on it. Crabber also has several excessive attacks, one of which could be changed out for a taunt. It could even be a weaker taunt, it need not be brute/tanker levels of aggro. but something to pull things off your pets would be a fantastic addition to the class, as well as give something additional to do than to spam the 3 same attacks. I have tried provoke, which was mostly unsuccessful and dicey at best, as well as costing a pool power slot which most builds simply dont have room for. I have also tried the Melee Support hybrid, because it specifically says that it taunts, but it must be a fairly weak one becuase things sure don't stick very long. It certianly isnt a taunt for the full duration. 1b. Pet damage. They don't really have an AoE, as the little spiderbots just run in as speedbumps, and the bigger spiders shoot once or twice, and then run in as well, where they get stomped fairly quickly. Even the epic pool pets are middling at best. (although wonderful for theme!). Personally the best use I found for them was using them as DPS cooldowns to help "mop up" the final mobs of each spawn, namely bosses/elite bosses. They do pretty decent single target damage if they all pile onto the same target, but since we don't have Mastermind commands, we cant "tell" them to do that, so either you plan for that in advance, or hope for circumstances to be in your favor. Suggested fixes: I am not expecting huge sweeping damage changes, instead I would like to suggest that the spiders remain melee, and the larger ones have all ranged attacks. That way they wouldnt just run in and get creamed. Maybe even add on an AoE ranged attack for the bigger spiders. Again, I underline their damage is pretty decent for pets, its just their mechanics (shoot once, run in) that I think is the issue. And they arent really tough enough to do much for very long on harder content. Another highlight I would like to mention for not just Crabber pets, but all recharge pets in general is that they do not benifit from the "double effectiveness" support hybrid, which leaves support of questionable use to anyone else but Masterminds. Which begs the question, which Hybrid is intended for Crabberminds? I've heard some folks having mixed results with Assualt + popping pets, but I can never seem to get my pets to benifit from it. Melee hybrid is of middling use as well, which essentially leaves the hybrid slot as a big "bleh" for crabbers. I am not expecting any sort of special hybrid power, but a fix for the "support double effect on pets" would be a welcome sight not just for crabbers, but any AT that uses recharge pets. 2. The Attacks. For the most part, every crabber takes the same few attacks - Venom Grenade, Suppression, a filler of choice. The other attacks simply arent worth taking, as either the animations take too long, or they don't do enough damage to be worth considering. Which is a real shame, considering the Crabber Backpacks attacks look pretty awesome in melee. Overall their attacks are strong AoE wise, not in terms of damage, but in terms of they can pour on nearly a constant stream of AoE nearly every attack. Not many other AT's can boast such, not even blasters. So while their damage per activation is subpar, the fact its almost always AoE they basically "chew" through groups of enemies. It just might take awhile. Lets not even speak about the T9 power, omega maneuvers. I think it is one of the WORST T9's out of all the ATs. It has an extremely large recharge time, only middling damage, the taunt is "alright" but the long fuse on it makes it marginal use at best. The recharge on it is too long for it to be very useful when Solo, and when on teams they usually move so fast your Omega bomb is simply too slow to really hit much, and when it does its more or less just an extra Shot or two with Supression in terms of damage. The only use I have found for Omega is not as an attack power, but to drop as a taunt to help try and save pets. (they are going to do more damage than it will anyway.) But it's not very successful as a taunt-trap either. Suggested fixes: On the T9, either reduce the cooldown on it, make the taunt stronger, or increase the damage. Or mabye a mixture of them all. Because as it is, its simply not worth taking or even using if it was free. The ranged attacks feel like they are in a good spot, but I would suggest making a difference between the melee and ranged attacks. Mabye the melee attacks do more damage, while the ranged retained the built in debuff effects. That way you could swap modes depending on what you needed, as well as encourage different builds and crabber playstyles. 3. Lack of combat options: By this I mean, all crabbers are more or less the same. A few good toggle buffs, with a few fragile dps pets, with some ranged debuff attacks that do middling damage. Which is sad, because as before Crabbers actually have a high resistance cap, but zero way to take adavantage of it in a build or use it on a team. If they had a taunt, they could perform the "offtank" role if need be, as well as help their fragile pets survive. Another thing I would like to point out is the buff/toggles themselves, the only outstanding feature they have to call their own is the 10% Maneuvers, and thats it for the most part. Which is of questionable use later on, when most folks are close to or near the defense cap anyway. It's a welcome feature to be sure, but hardly anything to base an AT around. I suppose my point is that the Crabbermind doesn't really have any role or support. Simply being there helps the team with damage buffs, and its mediocure debuffs, but others have far better buffs/debuffs. Suggeted fixes: I would compare the buff and debuff values/powers damage/pet values against others. Becuase even when "redlining" the crabber, it seems rather lackluster. When homecoming first launched you would see them now and then, but now I rarely see any others. They were never a popular AT to begin with, but I still feel they are behind other ATs in their respective catagories. The toolkit for crabbers just lacks oomph and a defining role. Either its debuffs could be stronger, or its damage could be bumped up (But only a little bit, I don't think they would need much.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, this is just me musing and making a wishlist of changes for my Favorite AT. It's my favorite class, but also one of my weakest which is a bummer, I do love the playstyle and feel of it. It does indeed feel like a ranged tanker of sorts. Like a mobile piece of artillery, even if it is a weak one. (by weak i dont mean in terms of dps, i just mean what the class has overall.) Other imput is certainly welcome! I'm not hoping for a total rehash or even that they make them OP or anything. It just feels like they really need a bump or two compaired to whats possible with everything else nowdays. Thanks bunches! And best wishes. TLDR - Please look at the pet defensive/offensive values, fix the support hybrid "bonus effect on pets" for all recharge pets, possibly add a taunt to the AT, and make it matter if you pick the backpack melee or ranged attacks. And do whatever it takes to make the T9 worth taking and using. Even if it was a new power entirely, that might be better whan what we have now.

I didnt test it, two other helpful people in discord did, their screenshots and the discussion is in the brute channel. But from what I gather both tested on the test server, and they did see a difference, though it was no where what mids said it should be. But as you already pointed out, Mids is more of a guide than a kiss your elbow true calculator to go by. But both of them provided screenshots.

Hello, thank you both for your responses. Both of you are kind of correct. I have zero tools/knowledge to crunch the numbers to vertify it or not, but some people in discord did and we spoke it ou tin the brute channel. I did make both a tanker and a brute, with the same build. And it was confirmed that fury does work, as far as the tanker vs brute damage, well it seems to vary. Low fury, tanker pulls ahead, full fury, its closer but brute edges out. But I dont think that shouldnt suprise anyone. But yes, my fury didnt seem to affect my damage much at all, at least not as much as other brute I had. And no i wasnt basing it only off mids, it was mostly off what i had observed and experienced, and i felt it was worth bringing up, not to get a DM to swoop in, but for those more experienced than myself to take a look. I spoke my concerns in discord, and a few advised me to make a ticket, and so here we are. I hope that clears things up a little. the TLDR though is that yes, fury is working. The tanker vs brute thing? Totally different story and entirely subjective to personal preferance.

This is my first bug report, so apologies if its not in proper format. I made both a tanker and a brute energy melee/bio, to compare the damages and whatnot. And in game, both with the same powers/incarnates/stances, the tanker does more damage. And (according to MIDS) at zero fury my Energy Transfer should do 600-ish, and at 80 fury it should be doing 1000-ish, but no matter what the fury is, it always does 600-ish. While my tankers does around 800 consistantly. So I have a hunch that the Brute Fury damage isnt being added/calculated, because my tanker version is doing 200+ more damage than the brute, with the exact same powerset/IOs. I don't have screen shots or anything to prove this, not sure what "evidence" is needed for ingame suspicions. Thank you for your time in advance! Neiners PS - to whom it may concern, others with more game knowledge than me tested it on the test server, and they said it was working. Still boggles me how theres that much of a gap between tanker vs brute with full fury, i would have assumed brute have more damage, not less. its weird.

My most memorable moment was when I was finishing my first accolade power. I was in a swamp area (forget were) and was hunting those little baby clockworks down, the ones that spawn from the princes upon death. So there I was, just zooming around, pew-pew-pewing away, looking at the ground. I wasn't paying attention to where I was going or what was around me. Well, All of a sudden I "bump" into something, and look up. And what do I see? Something big. Something purple. Something with the name "Hydra". I look at its target information, and what do I see? "Giant Monster" ACK! Holy jebus's knitting kitty nickers! I flung my hands up, sending my keyboard cartweeling off into the distance, leaned so far back in my chair it feel backward with my legs flying up to the heavens. Now, I know people out there who solo GM's on their lunch break. I am "not" one of those people. Heck I had never seen a Giant Monster before, except that giant floating thing whose name escapes me. So to me, it was like turning the corner and finding Nessie and Bigfoot playing Uno on a Davenport and a Mahogany coffee table. So I get up, run to retrieve my keyboard, dash back to my computer and start click click clicking. Now in hindsight, I didn't have a prayer. I was playing my Crabbermind. Click-click-click-clickclickclick! "What? No! GET EM SPIDEYS! ACK! Spiders you have failed me! Its coming this way! Oh No!...... SPLAT!" I slumped back in my chair, defeated, watching on while Hydra absently picked its teeth with the remains of my Spider Drones. And my first thought... "That was pretty awesome." And thus here ends my tale of the day I met my very first Giant Monster.

Can +1, One of my favorite teaming buddies with my MM is a friend who plays a Crabbermind, and it works out great - my heals and buffs keep his pets going (they are squishy compaired to mine), but his pets do more damage than mine do, so they are a good help. Not to mention those yum yum improved leadership toggles. I do agree that MMs and nearly all pet classes (except mabye controllers) kind of fall behind in late game though, which sucks for pet class lovers. Its fun, but I have yet to see any of my fully kitted out pet builds of any kind do half as well as any other AT on max difficulty. That's not to say they don't have a place, or aren't fun, but do have to agree with @Ralathar44 that they are weak, and what support etc they can bring, others can do the same or better.

learn something new every day. and here im sitting on like 7k threads across multiple characters.

My two cents - 1. My biggest pet peeve, is how all the recharge pets from Crabber mind, Controller, etc etc do not benifit from Supports "double bonus for pets", making it expressly unique to masterminds. Wish this feature worked on all pets. Honestly, I wish there were more pet focused incarnate abilites in general, as nearly all pet classes start to fall behind in incarnate content. And your choices of helping them are barrier OR healing. Sort of a rock and a hard place situation. And on top of that, thats assuming you are willing to give up ageless, which many builds require to have a flowing playstyle. 2. Some choices feel obligatory, which makes an illusion that there is any real choice. I can bet that 95% of people use either Agility, Cardio, or Musculature, regardless of build/at. Similar with the degenerative and reactive interface choices. 3. How threads were bound. I have several characters staring at 1000+ threads and no use for them whatsoever. I cant even burn them for things like unslotters. I am not expecting them to be turned into merits, but "some" use for them would be nice. Suggested fixes - 1. Make Support apply to all pet types, or even have more incarnates apply to pets wholesale. 2. Either streamline the "best picks" in each incarnate slot, or make them all more equal. Because to me there are many "junk" incarnates. 3. For threads, make them either account bound, or make a merchant with uses for them. Even buying like, nukes or IOs with them would be welcome. Having no use for them whatsoever #feelsbadman. Just my two cents!

My humble opinion on the topic. Not everyone is going to enjoy the same activities. You could say that about any game. Some people will enjoy story missions. Some will enjoy radio/newspaper. Some enjoy playing the markets. Some enjoy base building. Some enjoy trying multiple builds. Some enjoy farming. Some enjoying roleplay and dont level at all. Some peoples passion is PVP. And you know what? That's normal. I would argue, to be expected. I don't begrudge anyone who enjoys those activities, or other activities that have not been mentioned. I do my thing, and other people do theirs, and we meet in the middle. What I do not support though, is making X activity "required", or what I like to call, "false timesinks", meaning activities with no real purpose aside from making you put time into the game. An example of this would be time-gated reputations on another popular MMO. It should be "optional", not required. As far as what I personally enjoy, well, that is largely a question of investment/risk vs reward. If the gain isn't worth what I value as my personal hobby time, well then I won't do it. If it is, then I will consider it. But I will largely give anything a chance, as long as it has the option for me to go "You know what? This isn't for me. I don't enjoy this. I am going to go do something else ingame." Another thing I don't support, is games forcing/artificially encouraging players into the X, Y, or Z activities, or other players trying to get systems to co-hearse other players into doing what they themselves enjoy. Lets take PVP for example. (full disclosure for clarity, I am not a pvper, as I don't enjoy it. But I have no ill wishes for those that do enjoy it, nor do I make any claim here that they have made any claims. I only use PVP as an activity example.) For argument's sake, lets say that all zones on all servers were suddenly open PVP areas. For those that enjoy PVP, it might be fantastic. But for those people who hate and loathe PVP, it would be hell. And personally rather than put up with any other players imposing grief/playstyle, I would never leave the pocket D, or I would uninstall the game. I dislike PVP that much, and it would be enforced upon me. And I suspect many would feel the same. (again, no one to my knowledge has argued FOR this, or mentioned anywhere. I am only using it as an example.) Just as you enjoy one activity, and dislike say, farming. It would be just as wrong to force farming upon you, when I myself do enjoy farming time to time. It's convenient. I can do it at my own pace. I can help my friends, or help myself get more equipment. But I wouldn't support a system that assumes that everyone is a die hard farmer, far as setting prices/builds/power tweaks and so on. TLDR - I guess to summarize, I just think more OPTIONS are good, so long as they are that, Optional. I would not support or like anything that's "forced" or required, even if it had a carrot on a stick. Just my thoughts on it. I do my thing, you do yours, and we will meet in the middle somewhere. More people doing things that they enjoy is good for everyone. Forcing people to do things they don't want to is bad for everyone. Best wishes to everyone, Heroes and Villians. Stay healthy!

Just wanted to wish all the Men out there well on their day today! 💖

Funny. Between some posts here and what is said ingame, it doesn't feel particularly welcoming. Personally, I go by live and let live. If some rp is going on you aren't into, fine. No one says you have to be a part of it. Long as its not illegal, who cares. It doesn't affect you. But from where I sit there are far too many "Karens" trying to "police" what's going on. For pete sake its a game people. Let people have their escapism and fun in peace.

100% agree. They haven't even posted the actual numbers for the changes they are thinking about, they only posted the idea of change. I mean, if they had posted data with actual numbers for people to browse, fair point. People might have a leg to stand on when saying the change is bad. But there is a silly amount of "REEEEE" here over what is a mere mention of a change. People haven't played it yet, haven't tested it yet, there is no numbers posted yet for the smarty people to run numbers and see how it ends up. Who knows, the change might end up being great for everyone. But this feels more like some are against the idea of change at all, regardless of what that change might be. That or some like being super OP, regardless of the wider impact of having OP sets in games. I would bet if the change was making it stronger, or even more OP, they would be 100% supportive of it. As far as the point of "raising everything to TW's level", I would point to @parabola's last post which I agree with. Moreover, lets play hypothetical and say that everything was raised to TW's level. I suspect the following would occur - 1. Posts saying the game being too easy now, and requests for harder, more difficult content. 2. With "every" damage set being TW's level, there would be very little need to play CC, debuffers, or healers. Why bother if everyone could make brutes or scrappers and just steamroll the content. Even on max difficulty things would be dead very quickly. As it stands even now there are some people saying that's what it feels like to be on a team with Support characters. IE - too much damage, and you don't "need" support on a team. 3. It could turn into an absurd loop of buffs. Another game I wont name did just that. And its quite common to see skills with 15,000% damage or higher, with people capable of dealing billions or trillions of damage. Its a snowball effect where everyone just bats and eye and does such absurd amounts of damage they had to ramp up difficulty just to pose a challenge, and I shudder to think what effect such a thing might have on the PVP here. I'm not saying that's 100% for SURE what would happen here. Only what HAS happened before, on other platforms and in other games. And I would hope that many people would see that as a bad thing. Best wishes

Kay, first off, don't put words in my mouth. I never said that input from players are a bad thing. If you actually take the effort to read the entire discussion, I was reacting to the idea of leaving the development of the game up to the small population that actually use the forums. Which I still say, is a bad idea, for the reasons listed. Secondly, you seem to act like they don't take feedback at all, which would be untrue. All "you" have access to, is the forums. "They" have access to logs, tickets, developer tools, the forums, PMs, discord, and more. In fact it might be argued that there are more "Nerf TW, buff regen" posts than others. (except possibly buff merc posts in the discord.) Rose tinted glasses, the data you see is in fact only a small part of it.

You're right. I don't know what it is. (If I had to guess, I would say that it was Psi Melee.) And that doesn't somehow void my point. That in other games that balanced PVE abilities for PVP reasons, well, it didn't go well for them, and I would like to avoid a similar outcome here. But lets play hypothetical here. Lets say for a moment, the power sets were balanced, updated, and designed around PVP in mind. How do you think that would go? Here's my guess - 1. Dot damage would take a nosedive, burst damage would be king. 2. Tanks/Brutes/Defensive minded characters would also take a dip, just like another game who wont be mentioned where there are 45+ minute cue times to wait for tanks. Keep in mind, that's with a much larger population than ours. I suspect finding tankers for teams/missions here would be much worse. 3. The entire math and values behind CC and Debuffs might have to be redone. 4. Some quality of live changes that the PVE crowd loves, might have to be reverted. An example would be the Mastermind pets. In PVP blocking/hiding behind the pet was a valid strategy, but that also means the Masterminds could block doorways and tunnels all the time. With that change, its a huge boost in play for all masterminds everywhere, but the PVP crowd didn't seem to like it. 5. Some classes are not well built for PVP. Which means they might have to get an entire overhaul to make them "competitive" in the PVP area. And in my experience, retooling a class from PVE to PVP, usually changes its role PVE as well, usually not in a good way. 6. Its likely that healing and buffs would have to be rebalanced as well. All of these changes would greatly affect PVE. Just a few examples off the top of my head. This isn't a PVP game with PVE as bonus content, I would argue its a PVE one with PVP as bonus content. And this is in no way meant to be hating on the PVPers. You guys do what you love. But balancing things around PVP, would break a lot of things PVE, and not in a good way.

Its also broken things before as well. Other games come to mind. Balancing PVE tools around PVP, when PVP is a small part of the game is kind of ridiculous.

To go back on topic, I am fine with TW getting changed, particularly with the unwieldy momentum mechanic that plays like a bathtub on a slip n slide. I just hope they don't overnerf it, with regards to the other ATs that use it (Brutes and Tankers), instead of the bio/TW scrapper combo that seems to be the main issue with it. I have noticed no one has commented yet on Energy Melee, Trick Arrow, or the Blaster changes. The post says there will be more buffs than nerfs, so there is that. And my interest is peaked with the incarnate crafting system changes. (Hoping we might get to do something with excess threads) If we were allowed to wish for other things, personally I would throw recharge pets up for consideration, but that's just me.

Oh, they are using data they didn't create, no arguement there. But it was openly published data, used by others as well. Which in the data world isn't protected data anymore, correct? It would be similar to like, going after wikipedia for something they posted at this point, wouldn't it? Not sure how the legal stuff works there. Its very convoluted .

-Negotiations to become legitimized, according to rumor. I don't follow the latest news in that arena, but last I heard it was a thing. As far as "Stolen" goes, well, the code went public IIRC a bit over a year ago? Not 100% sure on the details that one either, but what I think happened is someone (no idea who) published the code for the game online, and from that sprung homecoming. (Might be 100% wrong here! So if someone knows the skinny feel free post a link or explanation)

1. ...Wow. Stolen? You are aware Homecoming is in discussions with the host company, right? 2. Id say they are the ones being flexible, and its you who isn't? @JayboH - -I would submit SoA for consideration to be put top of the list too please. (hugs crabberpack).

@Captain Yesterday- So, you're a game designer, who doesn't know what a user agreement is? And opposes its use?