Neiska

Some other sets, such as Robots, don't have a "mule power" to stick all the Aura IOs into. By putting them all in a power like Hell on Earth, this lets you largely slot your actual pet powers as you like. Far as the pet slotting themselves, thats largely subject to personal preferance. Another example of having a power like Hell on Earth being an advantage versus a set like Robots without one, they have several Knockback powers. So you need to spend more slots with KB -> KD IOs as well, costing even more slots. So Robots have to spend both slots on the Aura IOs as well as KB - > KD, which adds up to quite a few slots Robots are obligated to spend, where a set like Demons does not. Personally, I like slotting for Accuracy (because pets are lower level and tend to miss), as well as damage procs where I can. (It does make a noticeable difference), as well as Soulbound Build Up proc. Additionally, remember that by putting Aura IO's in Hell on Earth, that opens up other things such as putting a Resistance or Defense IO onto a pet, if you are lacking powers that can accept those. So there's a few reasons why many consider having such a "mule power" is a boon. Hope this helps!

Depending on the secondary, I tend to go for more accuracy on pets, due to them being lower level. It really makes a difference once you get into level shifts later on, and not all secondaries need many LotG mules. I think I only have 2, mabye 3 on my demons/thermal, and I definately run all 3 leadership toggles.

Persoanlly I go Mace Mastery, because I take it for Web Grenade. It has a longer range, as well as a wider area of coverage. Plus with 1 or 2 Range IOs, it can go suprisingly far! I am tempted to test Heat Mastery, because I just found out about Bonfire shinagins, which might be even better - Laying Bonfire with KB -> KD IO right in the Assualt Bots fire patches. So things go in, and end up being trapped. It might be more effective at locking things down in the fire patches. And it lasts longer as well, which is a better match for /Electric Affinities fast paced play.

Hello @Warclaw! You posted this in the Tanker forums hon, not the Stalkers. I don't personally have much experience with stalkers. Just so you know though, you linked the wrong thing. People cant see the total values of what you used or which IOs you have slotted. You will want to use the import/export. That's how you copy data for people to see. Here's a pic to help you out - Import from forum post is copy/paste, Export is how you bring builds here. Its more or less a copy/paste tool. And you can use either short or long post, or even a data link. Hope this helps!

Well, each to their own! Personally I always grin when the assualt bots BU procs with the fire patch and stuff just melts. But I do think @TheSpiritFox is right, even with a buffing power, the BU would apply to you, not the recipent of the buff, its an "onuse" effect, not a "ontarget" effect, I guess is the term. That would be like wanting BU on tactics to proc on pets too isn't it, and it doesn't work that way?

@KC4800 - May i ask why the BU on the battle drones, and not the assualt bot? Wouldnt you get more effectiveness from the assualt bot, it being the main source of damage with robos? Just curious, because I always put it on the assualt bot with the flame patches and whatnot.

So, when using daggers, whats the best way to go about it? Just get a stack of them and incorperate them into your attack chain? Never used them before, not a big fan of tempoary powers usually.

Well, I wasn't intending to ask for a build critique, but here is what I'm using. Maybe I'm missing something! https://www.midsreborn.com/builds/download.php?uc=1556&c=723&a=1446&f=HEX&dc=78DA6594594F135114C7EFD0A9D8D2D296B24A0B94AD9B54AA3E6A08C812592289C607B7662CD7D250DB66CA833C9A88CB9B628C2F2AFAE0033EF80DFC1A6AE2177063911D97D4C3FC0F65924ED2FEEEFCE7DCF33FE7B47726EE0C3ADE8FDCED138AE35C462B141297B4EC8CD4AD135A2A9D14747906343D979585425B7FE6A62E93D3B395A4B6212C31286FC96C41C606D2B9C4053DA565D3C944BF7E3BA73771C084CC48191BCA4A3D35871BE19CCCE532B1E1746A7A369D4DD98DBB8B7929A75CC6725C6A53522F4CA7F38E83FB3CC57987F2E9642991569895FA5C235512A3CF7A077D29FBD516AD62D322445C15155BCC6DF0E80E58BD0BD6EFB16E177C1585481082AAD8A07C0AF20965A1C288DB24CDC21E9615EC5557C1236BCC5F9C739DBD36401B7958E161B55E8147E42A78FC1AF33AF306D8C3B56C916F257C8B7BB4B6218F6AF321B7DDCF6C011DADCC00F89BF654712F550DB4F0D34CE82774B2E69C477F16D25CDC9FEBA4C58873F32CDD3CCB1A9E61CDC10C79B60EEACFC3FD795EA88676E225F31573118CBF66BE01FF507D5EF6F53AE15B5B0D865D608F9BE901E3355C1FF9D6B16FDD63E4F33D015B16C0C05330F80C0CF35C55EAB7817D1BEA14E359E330FA693C0F1E1B658E819111F02FD5DCC47B9B3E42F37D025B3E839D5FC0601F187E04FF6AAAB99967DFBC84D9B7532D7E688A3F2A9087F98FBC5AB9C7D6AFC8D5F68DF99DF9030CFC642E834EF26AE7BDEDF7E0DF31CFBCCF7C00763E649E454D2EDADBC57BBBBAA175479921E4EF9E418DC13344D52222CC457A1CE233150A20C6433D46B9EF28CFFB9D93CE2F6B313E67F514D7CB5A2FC7F954D3192DD225C26AE9C41723654F7BCB94789972AA4C395DA68C9B151BEA9B54D978FFDD6044D9DCF46680525CB69BDE1C3DE87CF55053945105FFBECBE86CC51C1F42FC9A399EA752FB1CDCD97F1BB0D7B669BD6B5A2FD14F1EE7D918D798F750781B29B55494E143FD8329E63F5E450325 Baroness Albrecht.mxd

@Cripple X Hello OP! Welcome to Masterminding. Robots are my favorite pet set too, so here are a few things I can offer as advice. 1. Don't forget to pick up the Pet Damage and Recharge pet defensive IOs, these give you auras that make your pets tougher. You only need one of each for the defensive auras. 2. An IO of special mention later on after you get the big robot, is Soulbound Allegiance :chance to power up. What this will do is give your assualt bot a chance to do more damage with its attacks. 3. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere yet, but you can use Inspirations on your pets. Its as easy as drag and dropping it on their hitbox. You have to be semi close to the pet, but it will work just fine. So you can use reds, yellows, and whatnot on your pets, even green ones to heal. 4. (much) later on, there are a few key incarnate powers to keep in mind. For Alpha, I believe nearly every MM picks muscleature, becuase its one of the few ways to boost pet damage. For Hyrbrid, you cant go wrong with Support, there is even a path that gives double +hit/damage bonuses for pets. Only MM pets benifit from this, making it more or less a MM only feature. Specific to Robot pets - 1. You will want some sudden acceleration Knockback to Knockdown IOs, as your pets will push things around quite often. Which is bad, because of #2 - 2. As a robot Mastermind, the majority of your damage will come from your Assualt Bot, so stick to him like glue. His main damage is his missles leaving a big patch of fire. If you can force the fights where your robot leaves them, you will do much better. You can stand in it and /provoke, or immobilize. The easiest way for me was using group fly, and shooting straight down, because enemies naturally want to run right under you, which is the perfect place for the fire patches. 3. Your robots are all "ranged", which is one of two sets that are. They will never run into melee, only your assualt bot may move closer to spray the flamethrower attack. This means you can use abilities like Web Grenade or Electric Fences to immobilize them, or you can also take group fly from flight pool, and have a whole team of ranged combatants. (the robots even get little rocketboots.) 4. Robots are a "Defensive" set as well, as your protector bots will "bubble" everything, even you. But don't think this forces you to play a defensive based secondary, I have had quite a bit of results with others. As far as specific paring, well, there are several options. I would ask what you want your "strengths" to be, because thats what you are more or less asking - Forcefield - Ease of play, but can be boring. Time - Overall balanced, but doesn't have anything it does exceptionally well either. Traps - King of solo, but is slow to get there, as well as move your traps in combat And Electric Affinity - Top teir survieability set, for you, your pets, and your team. Downside, not much offense to offer aside from -damage and -regen debuffs. 1. Forcefield - Forcefield is very defensive, but is also very hands off. Some people enjoy that gameplay, others hate it. If you are fine just turning on a few toggles and buffs, and watching your pets do everything, you may enjoy it. So if you like simple, this might suit you. Others find it so simple they are bored by it. 2. Time - Time is a top teir set, with just about everything. Its mobile, offers buffs, healing, a few debuffs. Its just an all around good balanced set. But this also means it doesn't really stand out at doing anything either. The only thing I would say with a robo/time is, its fairly easy to defense cap you and the pets with it. As a set, it is consistant and relialable, but no real "oh wow" features. 3. Traps - Robots/Traps MM is one of the most potient solo builds possible. It can kill GMs/AVs solo, and is very strong. However, it is also not the quickest or moble. Think of it as a "plant the flag" style of play. You drop all your traps in your "kill zone" and make enemies come to you, getting hit by multiple persistant effects, where you stand there and use caltrops or provoke, trying to keep things within your zone of death. Robots/Traps can be an issue on some fast moving teams though, as everyone keeps moving out of your "kill box", and the powers are on long cooldowns. But for solo, it can be quite fun and powerful. 4. Electric Affinity - Personally, I rate this one as the king of MM defensive sets, and despite it being resistance, it pairs very well with robots. You can put down a zone of status immunity which affects your pets, this stops them from being knocked out of range of your buffs. You also have limitless END later, with a very nice heal and +absorb power. It also has -10% and -20% damage debuff which stacks, which makes your already durable setup even more durable. EA has a few downsides though, a few buggy powers such as the T9 power not really affecting pets, and is almost dead last for damage, offering only a group +damage buff. I have also heard of people having good results with Storm, Radiation, and oddly, Nature. I have done many MMs, and my personal favorite is Robot/EA, just because of a few reasons - Different ways to play on one character - Footslog it as normal, Fly and enjoy some aireal combat, or immobilize things and just pewpew it out. My Robot/EA is also my best MM for farming, even on the highest content. But this is all just personal taste. Hope this helps a bit. I am a pet class lover in video games too. Robots are a fantastic choice and go with quite a number of secondaries. Happy Masterminding!

@Rinwen Hi OP, I hope this finds you well. I am no means an expert, as there are people with wiser heads and far more experience and knowledge of all the hidden factors in the game than anything I could claim. I can however, offer my own insight and advice. 1. The biggest advice I can give is - Don't focus on the stats or numbers. Focus on the fun, that's most important. "Any" build/powerset combo can perform well on 2/8 etc. Personally I consider that the end difficulty, with anything beyond that as similar to a new game plus or "hardmode" for those whose favored experience is "redlining" what a build is capable of. (Nothing against those people! I am one of them myself!) Not every build/at/powersets are going to be able to solo 4/8, or solo gms/avs, or be equal on all difficulties on all activites. Which brings me to my next point - 2. This game is largely subjective. What one person consideres "op" another person will not. It largely depends on personal tastes and playstyles, as well as activities invovled. So I would advise taking some of what people say with a grain of salt. Because similar to point #1 even if a at/build has a numerical advantage, like myself you might loathe the gameplay of said character, and if I am not having fun then I dont care how big the numbers are, because there is little point. A personal example of this - One of my characters is a "crabbermind". However, I did not build her in the typical manner. Most people don't realize that a Crabber soldiers resistances can go all the way to 85% all res. I have been on a few teams where I was actually tougher than the brute or tanker, just no aggro tools like taunt. But the flipside of being a "toughy crabbie" is she can actually farm AEs as well, easially in fact. Similar to tankers I can put her on "afk" and just have her autocast Frenzy. She is tough enough not to die, so I can actually farm with her easially. Which is something not many other crabbers can claim. So don't be afraid to experiment with ATs, Powersets, Builds, Incarnates, and Enchancement slotting. You might be pleasently suprised! 3. As per your specific question, are Tankers useless? That really depends on the activity you are referring to. Are you talking about Farming AE's? Radio Missions? Incranate Trials? Soloing? Team Play? Badge Hunting? Completing Accolates? Hunting Giant Monsters/Archvillians? Here are where I personally think tanks shine at 50 - 1. Ease of playing - you can play most tanks and do quite well, even if on a limited budget. They are mostly easy to build, they can perform wonderfully even with plain basic IOs slotted, and are a great "training wheels" character to start for someone new to the game. You really cant go wrong with Tanker, or Brute for that matter. Both are also very forgiving if you make mistakes in builds, slotting, or attack rotations. 2. Farming - Brutes and Tanks are fantastic farmers. Either to help pay for your other characters, or to farm emp merits, or to help level others. Brutes I would say are "faster" farmers, but Tankers are much more chill/relaxed. Plus there are quite a few tankers that are capable of going entirely afk with an aoe power on autocast, and they will still clear maps on the highest difficulty. This means you can farm while doing other activites like homework, taking your fluffy outside, doing dishes, talking to your parents, and so on. For me personally I like having a tanker farmer more than a brute, simply because I don't always have hours to sink into playing, as I am an adult with responsibilities now. But this "afk" mode is a wonderful way to multitask. 3. Leading/leveling - If you are the sort of person who enjoys making friends/helping strangers, a tanker or brute both are fantastic at hosting Radio Mission runs. They can solo it on the hardest difficulty entirely by themselves if need be, which is great if you are trying to help other people or just be social. They are good at other activites, much the same as any AT. But these are where I feel they stand out among the others. So to directly answer your question, are Tankers useless endgame? I would say certainly not, no more than any other AT being "useless". As I said, its entirely subjective. This game has no "trinity" of group dynamic - Tanker, Healer, DPS. You can make literally any group makeup work. You could run a content with nothing but tankers, (such as tanker tuesdays.) But you could also do the same with any other AT. (personally I had a blast with an all stalker team where we would all assinate our targets all at once, and move onto the next. It felt like being on a team of ninjas!) Hope this helps! Best wishes and please stay safe!

No, I dont run out of End. It just seems my damage cant keep up and it just slowly heals. I keep using my same rotation and debuffs, but once the lore pets wear off I can only watch its hitpoints slowly creep back up. It's not an End issue, I am running EM/Bio. I use the -regen powers I have and try to hit as hard as I can, but apparently without longbow lore pet I just dont have enough -regen. I meant to try those daggers out but haven't had a chance to yet, was a busy weekend.

Thank you everyone. Still having problems, I can get the GM I've selected down to about 20% consistently, but then I always run out of steam and it just heals back. But a friend who knows more than I about such things said the GMs in AE are tougher than the garden variety that people speak about, so that might be it. (shrug) Mostly I have been testing about the one you can spawn in AE, the skynet at the end after you hit the glowie. But thank you for the input everyone, it is appreciated.

Hello Tankers, First, Happy Friday! I wanted to make a tanker that is good for AVs and GMs, able to solo them (if thats possible.) I have tried several of the Av/Gm builds and powersets such as a Traps MM or Illusion/Rad controler, but I didn't like them as they felt odd/unwieldly, and not fun to play at all. So I am wondering if its possible to make a tanker capable of soloing AVs and GMs, if it is possible. I have a Radation Melee/Bio tanker, but she couldnt get past its regen/do enough damage. But it couldnt kill me either, so we just sort of had a staredown. Working on an EM/Bio tanker now, but a friend is insisting that Super Strength would be better. Or what other options would be there that might be better? Thanks bunches in advance!

Just voicing my own thoughts on the matter here, but... Honestly, the "gogogogo" mentality, as well as the "lets schneek to the end!" playstyle is not one I particularly enjoy, and is a big turnoff to some group/lfg play. Not everyone has ran the TF before, or the mission we are on. Personally I would rather go 1-2 spawns at a time, than just assume that - 1. Everyone has stealth. 2. Everyone "wants" to gogogo/speedrun it. 3. Everyone has done the TF before and is just on their weekly merit grind. I have had people, zoom past me, run off by themselves, go splat, then rant at me as if it was somehow my fault. When I figure "they are playing how they want, if they pull all those then they must be able to handle it." The live and let live, or play and let play style is more my jam. I don't begruge anyone who is in a rush, I get in a rush too. But usually I at least ask first, or say "hey, can we speedy this one?" before doing so. If they are fine with it, then lets go for it. But if a few people go "I'd rather not", then I dont. Honestly, I think its a breakdown in communication and a difference in playstyles than what is "right vs wrong". To me, there is no "wrong" way to play. If its in the game, then its fair game. That said however, I think its a bit silly to expect everyone to enjoy the precise same way as you do in playing the game. I would like to add that I get it. People are busy these days. I got things to do too, places to be. But I at least speak up first, before rushing ahead. And I certainly dont get on anyone else if the team goes a different direction. And last but not least, if the team is perferring the "gogogogo" play, and I am not, I just say thanks for the group and dip out. I can always find another, or start my own. I would rather look for a group that I enjoyed being with than be in one that I wasn't, and I think that would be fair to say for anyone. Again, I am not saying that anyone is a bad player/playing incorrectly or any such nonsense if they do play that way. If its in the game, its fair to use. Heck I put stealth IOs on my slide power on every AT just in case I do want to sneak time to time. But I suppose it comes down to every players philisophy - do they do their own thing, regardless of the groups dynamic and makeup, or do they leave to find a group more to their liking, do they communicate, or do they just do as they like, other players be darned? Matter of politeness/courtesy I guess, or whatever one wishes to call it. I don't think this is solely a tanker matter either. Just my thoughts on the matter, and best wishes to everyone out there, both non-stealthys/speedsters, or plod-alongs! TLDR - If I want to do something "different", I speak up. If the group is fine with it, then great. If not, I follow the pace of the group if I am enjoying myself, or I find another one if I am not.

Welcome to the Mastermind support group! A few things I would like to add that for me are a class bonus. 1. Variety of playstyles - I would argue that moreso than any other AT, you can do quite a bit with a single Mastermind. You can make one melee focused, ranged, a heavy buffer/supporter, or a heavy debuffer, or even a "tankermind". Some pets are ranged only, and in which case you can do a lot of neat tricks. For example, I have a robot/EA MM who can afk solo AE farming maps on max difficulty. How? Its fairly simple. I took group fly, and all my robots are ranged fighters. The map I select is one with enemies with no -fly or ranged attacks to speak of. So I just hover in the air and let my robots do all the work, while i have my one absorb power on autocast. You can also use things like web grenade or electric fences to trap things and simply "outshoot" them, or you can make a melee heavy build who runs in with the rest of them. You can even make an MM that can do all of these in a single build if you plan ahead. Just bare in mind that your main/secondary power pairing can greatly affect how you play, possibly moreso than other AT's. 2. Durability - For me personally what the class lacks in offence more than makes up defensively. I would rate some MM setps far more durable than Tanker builds. You can have softcap defenses, resistances, absorbs, heals, bodyguard mode, -damage/hit debuffs and more, all in one package. You can even squeze in things like status immunity and -regen for some setups, which makes for an absurdly durable character. I have a few tanks, and I think overall, my MMs are tougher. Not in terms of raw MIDs numbers, but in terms of overall ingame effectiveness. Sure, a tanker may have more resists, but do they have infinate end, self heals, damage sharing with bodyguard mode, and so on? 3. Soloing - I would also rate MMs as the king of solo play. Some builds can solo GMs/AVs, missions, ITFs and more. Many other ATs can do any of these, but few can do "all" of them in a single package. 4. Fun factor - this is really up for personal preferance. Some people love the Mastermind feel/style, some dont. Personally the only downside about MMs for me is low raw damage. But I can live with that, as all their other things more than make up for it. Happy Masterminding!

Thermal - Synergises very nicely with Demons both mechanically and themeatically. It has heals and some very nice debuffs. Nature - Kind of a wonky theme, but it does perform well with Demons. Never played that combo myself, but it looks solid. Dark - Does offer some debuffs and CC that is a big help to Demons, but it is more aggressive in playstyles. Some people like that though! However, if you want to min/max, I would vote Electric, despite its buggyness (such as the T9 not affecting pets.) Here are some of the EA perks - 1. Near infinate END on demand, this frees up your incarnate slot later down the road, without having to slot ageless. On teams you can refill everyones END almost without having to focus on doing so. 2. Top teir defensive/survivability. Not in just terms of + defense, but it also has things like Farday's Cage that makes all your pets immune to status effects, including things like knockback. Which is a big help of keeping things within range of heals and such. It just stacks so many things for overall effect. Even your little Cinders from Hell on Earth get all the absorb shields and things. To put things into perspective, My demons/EA was so tough that I could pull half the moon map in AE at once, and not only would I survive, all my pets would as well (on +4/8 with bosses enabled). The funny thing is, is it could clear the map faster than my brute could. Not because of damage, but because I could engage more enemies at a time, and survive it. Usually a player can only engage 16(?) enemies at a time, and can't hold threat beyond that. However, pets have their own aggro tables, so in theory each pet can "also" have 16 enemies fighting. Normally, this would be a cascading pet death situation. However, my Demons/Ea was tough enough to survive it. So while my brute was clearing 1-2 spawns (16 enemies at a time) faster, my MM was fighting 6-7 spawns (possibly 100+ enemies at a time. 16 x 7 - me, T2 pets, T6 pets, T8 pet) all at once, resulting in an overall faster map clear time. But I'll warn you, its "very" hectic doing that! Like, 10+ minutes of nonstop spamming/clicking/buffing/healing once you start. But it did feel pretty amazing standing atop of the pile once the carnage was done, particularly as an MM. The downside to EA 1. Very busy set. If you are used to FF playstyle where you turn on toggles and just chill, this is the complete opposite. You are always healing, re-applying absorb shield, re-applying the -dam debuff, topping off END, etc. It's fast paced, so be aware of that. 2. Not much CC to speak of. It has that sleep ability, but its nothing to write home about. You are better off using something like web grenade or electric fences from Epic Pools. 3. While I personally rate it among the best defensively, its among the worst offensively. All you have to boost pets is your little +dam ability. Your t9 doesnt affect pets (but its fantastic on players.) The set has nothing to add more "oomph" to your pets, and it focuses entirely on defensive measures - Stacking a 10% + 20% -dam debuff, damage resistance boost, absorb shield, healing, and status effect immunity. Neato ability - 1. One thing I am working on is a flying Mastermind to focus on group fly + fardays cage. (should work best with robos.) In theory, this will let all your ranged pets just fly and outgun enemies, all the while being out of reach for melee abilities, and immune to being knocked out of the sky due to Fardays Cage. Any ranged attacks they do have, should be simple to absorb and outheal. I don't think this would work for demons however, as you need ranged pets to make it work. I only mention it out of a sake of completeness. Overall Demons is a solid pet set that you could "make it work" with any secondary really. But I think Thermal, Dark, Nature, or Time would all be excellent, with EA being overall best! But thats just my personal preferance! You may not like being all out defense minded. Hope this helps!

@Two Dollar Bill- that screenie of all those spider team buffs makes me wana cry. 😂

Well, I'm sensing a bit of snark with a few peoples replies, which is what I had hoped to avoid. I don't think the AT is as good as some people are claiming it out to be. I am not sure what activates they are using to base their claims upon, and I would argue that the activity in question really matters when making such claims. And a few seem to be thinking I said things when I never did. I never asked for bodyguard mode, or MM commands/control. I never asked for a change in pets attacks, aside from maybe changing their attack types, or maybe changing one to an AoE attack. I even made it a point to mention several times that pet damage was fine. And I am sorry, but the claim of saying Crabbers are S tier ATs made me spit out my tea. I am not sure what people are comparing them to in order to say such a thing. Tankers, Brutes, and even Widows and Scrappers for example when well built can be entirely hands free on the hardest content. (I am not asking for crabbers to be this way at all, only using that as an example for AT comparison.) I also noticed some points of mine have never been addressed - -Support Hybrid "double effectiveness" bug doesn't work on pets. Thoughts? Should it be fixed, not for crabbers sake, but for all ATs with recharge pets? -Several of the Crabbers melee attacks are sub-par, even mentioned so by many people, several times, in any request for crabber build. Should these remain completely untouched? Because 99% of builds I see "never" use them, and if nobody ever uses them, what's the point of them? -Our pets while are good offensively, defensively they are sub par. Other Pet ATs are not forced to use incarnate powers in order to make their pets have capped defenses/good resistances, where crabbers are. Other ATs with pets get tools, heals, buffs, or some way to help their pets. Crabbers have only their toggles, making us entirely reliant on incarnates as our only tools for them. This is fine? -A lot of what people say "use suppression, frag grenade" and say that is a ton of aggro I find questionable, as I do exactly that, and my pets still end up dying, or else we wouldn't even be here. I would think we all aggre that 99% of all crabbers spam suppression and frag grenade on cooldown. -Some people pointed out "don't go into melee", which sort of makes me tilt my head. Because crabbers don't exactly do enough damage quick enough to keep them from running in, and don't have any baseline CC powers unless you take web grenade from mace, or electrical fences from Mu. But its more or less a moot point, because even if you CC things, your spiderlings are going to run in anyway, wither you are in melee or not. I mean spiderlings even chase a mob off and aggros the next group, and you cant even stop them from doing that. Melee pets, are gonna melee, because they have no other attacks, and you cant tell them to do otherwise. I am not out to paint crabbers as a terrible AT, I do agree they are fairly decent. They aren't the worst, but they certainly aren't the best either. And they certainly aren't worth the glowing reviews that people seem to be claiming. Some of which, makes me quite dubious. And I say this as a Crabber fan. It is difficult to give examples of what I am talking about, without being able to post videos to go by. But some of the comments here really make me scratch my head. I am not a fresh 50 crabber, as I said I have leveled 4 of them, my highest one is around vet level 40 with all of her main incarnates being T4 rank. I have played crabber quite a bit. Now I will admit that it can be a L2P issue, but people saying use 2 of the main attacks in the cycle and you will be fine, when its not, does make me giggle a little. I do think the melee abilities should be tweaked to make them worth taking and using, a single tool for pets would be a welcome addition, wither its a taunt, or a heal, or a cc ability, or "something" with the "baseline" AT power-set, so we aren't pigeon holed into specific incarnate abilities just to make our pets useable at higher difficulty content. But lets try some more direct questions then - 1. What destiny power do you use to keep your pets alive? Barrier, or Rebirth? 2. What Hybrid power do you use? Support? 3. Is there any truth to using Assualt Hybrid and then activating pets during its cycle? I recall reading that affects pets, but I don't see the buff icon on them anywhere. 4. Leviathan pool - worth using for the -toxic res stacking + bile spray for damage, or no? Again, I would like to underline that I am not saying the AT is bad or broken, only that there are room for improvements, certainly where viable builds are concerned, because as it stands everyone is more or less shoe-horned into the same sort of build setups, which are - permapets, spam suppression, spam frag, get 2 or so high damage single target powers for bosses. But if there were few small tweaks made, I believe the AT is solid enough to open up other viable builds and playstyles. Best wishes

That is certainly possible @Omega-202. But as I said I like to think this is a healthy respectful discussion, and I make no claims to be the kiss elbow bestest crabber player. Anyway, here are the stats of the pets (mine at least) ingame - Spiderling - 30.94% defense (all) resistances - 40% s/l, 50% psi, 20% fire, cold, energy, negative, toxic resistance Disruptor - 30.94% defense (all) resistances - 30% S, L, 40% energy, 50% psi, 20% toxic, negative, fire resistance The defense calculations are as follows - 5% base defense, 16% Tactical Toggle, 4.95% Maneuvers, 5% edit of the master IO. And to be certain I double checked the Support Core t4 ingame, and it gives 12% defense. So with support core activated, everything has a 42% defense. Aside from barrier and pet resist aura IOs, there is nothing we can really do for their resists (solo at least.) So as far as the pets are concerned, the only way to I can keep them defense capped is to alternate Support Hybrid/Barrier, but even then they still end up dying on me, and since I used my incarnate slot on Barrier, I don't have rebirth or any way to really heal them. So what ends up happening, if I spawn them at the start of a spawn, they will last that spawn, but will get steamrolled on the next one. Or if I save them to pop them to help "mop up", they help me finish off the bosses/EBs, but then they get steamrolled on the next spawn. Far as the pet attacks go, the spiders just run in but that shouldn't surprise anyone. The Disruptors Shoot once or twice, and then run in themselves. I have even tried staying at range, by using things like Web Grenade to keep things away, but the Spiderlings and Disruptors still run in and get creamed, so its kind of a moot point. I would like to re-iterate that the pet damage feels fine, its just they cant really hold up for melee, for me when solo at least. It feels like an AI + attack type interaction. I mean, if you guys see something I am missing to keep my pets from dying every spawn then I am all ears. Because I have even tried a "Crabber Lord" sort of setup, to try and make pets as good as possible, and they still got creamed. I've even tried things like provoke, melee hybrid (for the taunt), with the thought that since I am far tougher than my pets, if I could keep enemies focused on me, the pets would live far longer. It wasn't that successful. I still think our T9 is pretty... bad. It has a 600 second cooldown, only does supreme damage, and has a fairly weak taunt. Its too long of a cooldown to really be useful as a taunt, and doesn't do any damage or debuffs. As I mentioned in my first post, the only way ive really found use for it was to use it as a sort of emergency taunt to try and save a pet thats about to die. But even then, the range on it is fairly small, and you have no control over what it taunts really. If you guys use this one regularly, I am all ears far as how/why on that as well. I do agree with all of you that Crabbers have a pretty solid AoE chain, nearly every attack is solid as far as AoE is concerned. Where it stumbles for me is when fighting elite bosses/boss ranks, they just take so long to die without my pets. And since they are already dead usually, I am stuck spamming my attacks until either the boss dies, or my pets come off recharge. Far as patron/epic pools go, I usually go for Mace Mastery mostly for the web grenade, shatter armor for bosses, and the thematic pet. I have read that Mu and/or Leviathan is the superior choice though. I have used Mu time to time, but I wasn't really impressed. The only attack that seemed good was Mu Lighting to help down bosses, but Shatter Armor from Mace Mastery seemed better for that. I have heard people tout Leviathans damage, pointing to the -toxic res from Artic Breath and Venom Grenade, and then using Bile Spray for the Toxic damage cone. I have not tried this yet, and it's sort of difficult to guess what the damage might be like in Mids. I still stand by my opinion about "attack bloat" for the crab attacks. I mean if its fine, why does so few people take things like slice, arm lash, etc, and pretty much every build I have seen both here in forums and in discord say all the crabber melee abilities are trash? If they are all trash, couldn't they be made better and worth using somehow? The only one that I personally use regularly is Frenzy, because its fantastic for farming. Anyway, I am not saying the AT overall is "bad" by any means. It is great for teams. I am just saying their solo game feels kind of a struggle. It takes so long to kill bosses/elite bosses for me solo on 4/8, that I either just turn them off or do missions on 3/8. But this is getting longer than I intended, I do hope that people will provide specific examples of what I may be missing or why they feel as they do. I mean, it very well could be a "L2P" issue, but I don't think that it is. I might be missing a tool or option, but if so I can't really think of anything that it could be. You guys say your pets are fine on 4/8 with bosses, but mine crumple like paper every other spawn, and no matter what I do or try, I can't make them solid enough to rely on. And since mine die, I suspect that's a huge chunk of my damage I'm missing, and why I stumble vs bosses/elite bosses when solo. But that's just me musing. Looking forward to replies. And nothing I posted is meant to offend, only to disagree and I really am hoping that there is either something I am missing out on or not doing correctly that you guys can point out. Because out of all my 50s my crabber is my favorite one to play, but also the only one who struggles on 4/8 solo, and it is kind of depressing. Best wishes!

I never said it was in a bad place. On teams it is pretty decent. Solo on the other hand, not so much. And its not its defenses that's the issue, its defenses are actually pretty solid. Its the lack of support options for pets as well as offence besides its aoe rotation. I am currently working on numbers to post but cant post them right this minute.

Well, lets agree to disagree then. I don't feel they are in a solid place at all, and I have leveled 4 of them now with around 8 different builds and setups in total. Not sure what content others do, but personally I find anything over 3/8 to be pretty tiedious. And not everyone wants to have a build with 3-4 spammed powers, focus entirely on recharge, for lackluster permaspider sort of builds.

Hello fellow Soldiers! I just wanted to post my musings and wishlists for the AT, if/when it ever recieves an update. "Crabber" is definately my favorte AT playstyle wise, but sadly it does seem to stumble a bit on higher level content, at least when solo. The upside is I have never been turned down for any team, and often people are pretty much "horray a crabber". But here are some things I just wish they would improve upon. I don't believe anything is really overpowering, but there are better folks than me with heads for maths who may say otherwise. I still have my fingers crossed that they consider this AT worth looking at, because last I looked not many people played them at all. But one can always hope! 1. The Pets. Compaired to other pets, I would say ours are fairly weak. Going to break this one down to a few sub-points. 1a. Pet fragility. Firstly, they are fairly fragile, even the "tanky" spiders. IIRC, their defenses (without barrier) end up around 32(ish)%. Aside from our toggles, we have no way to help them either unless you spend incarnates to do so. You are more or less forced to decide between Barrier or Rebirth, to either make them more defensive for a time, or to be able to heal them all once every 2 minutes. I have tried both, and on higher difficulties (4/8 w/ bosses) they still seem to die every other spawn. Most builds focus on achieving "permapet" status, which I never really understood if you are playing on easier content. But on harder content, it doesnt matter how fast they can be resummoned, as they are going to splat anyway. Suggested fixes: Maybe bump their base defenses just a little, it wouldnt take very much. I would say even a 5% bump would make a large difference. Or mabye a new recharge pet IO set with a new aura as well. Another fix that I would like considered would be some sort of "taunt" ability to be added to the crabber. The crabber can actually achieve near tank levels of resistance (85%), but has no way to capitalize on it. Crabber also has several excessive attacks, one of which could be changed out for a taunt. It could even be a weaker taunt, it need not be brute/tanker levels of aggro. but something to pull things off your pets would be a fantastic addition to the class, as well as give something additional to do than to spam the 3 same attacks. I have tried provoke, which was mostly unsuccessful and dicey at best, as well as costing a pool power slot which most builds simply dont have room for. I have also tried the Melee Support hybrid, because it specifically says that it taunts, but it must be a fairly weak one becuase things sure don't stick very long. It certianly isnt a taunt for the full duration. 1b. Pet damage. They don't really have an AoE, as the little spiderbots just run in as speedbumps, and the bigger spiders shoot once or twice, and then run in as well, where they get stomped fairly quickly. Even the epic pool pets are middling at best. (although wonderful for theme!). Personally the best use I found for them was using them as DPS cooldowns to help "mop up" the final mobs of each spawn, namely bosses/elite bosses. They do pretty decent single target damage if they all pile onto the same target, but since we don't have Mastermind commands, we cant "tell" them to do that, so either you plan for that in advance, or hope for circumstances to be in your favor. Suggested fixes: I am not expecting huge sweeping damage changes, instead I would like to suggest that the spiders remain melee, and the larger ones have all ranged attacks. That way they wouldnt just run in and get creamed. Maybe even add on an AoE ranged attack for the bigger spiders. Again, I underline their damage is pretty decent for pets, its just their mechanics (shoot once, run in) that I think is the issue. And they arent really tough enough to do much for very long on harder content. Another highlight I would like to mention for not just Crabber pets, but all recharge pets in general is that they do not benifit from the "double effectiveness" support hybrid, which leaves support of questionable use to anyone else but Masterminds. Which begs the question, which Hybrid is intended for Crabberminds? I've heard some folks having mixed results with Assualt + popping pets, but I can never seem to get my pets to benifit from it. Melee hybrid is of middling use as well, which essentially leaves the hybrid slot as a big "bleh" for crabbers. I am not expecting any sort of special hybrid power, but a fix for the "support double effect on pets" would be a welcome sight not just for crabbers, but any AT that uses recharge pets. 2. The Attacks. For the most part, every crabber takes the same few attacks - Venom Grenade, Suppression, a filler of choice. The other attacks simply arent worth taking, as either the animations take too long, or they don't do enough damage to be worth considering. Which is a real shame, considering the Crabber Backpacks attacks look pretty awesome in melee. Overall their attacks are strong AoE wise, not in terms of damage, but in terms of they can pour on nearly a constant stream of AoE nearly every attack. Not many other AT's can boast such, not even blasters. So while their damage per activation is subpar, the fact its almost always AoE they basically "chew" through groups of enemies. It just might take awhile. Lets not even speak about the T9 power, omega maneuvers. I think it is one of the WORST T9's out of all the ATs. It has an extremely large recharge time, only middling damage, the taunt is "alright" but the long fuse on it makes it marginal use at best. The recharge on it is too long for it to be very useful when Solo, and when on teams they usually move so fast your Omega bomb is simply too slow to really hit much, and when it does its more or less just an extra Shot or two with Supression in terms of damage. The only use I have found for Omega is not as an attack power, but to drop as a taunt to help try and save pets. (they are going to do more damage than it will anyway.) But it's not very successful as a taunt-trap either. Suggested fixes: On the T9, either reduce the cooldown on it, make the taunt stronger, or increase the damage. Or mabye a mixture of them all. Because as it is, its simply not worth taking or even using if it was free. The ranged attacks feel like they are in a good spot, but I would suggest making a difference between the melee and ranged attacks. Mabye the melee attacks do more damage, while the ranged retained the built in debuff effects. That way you could swap modes depending on what you needed, as well as encourage different builds and crabber playstyles. 3. Lack of combat options: By this I mean, all crabbers are more or less the same. A few good toggle buffs, with a few fragile dps pets, with some ranged debuff attacks that do middling damage. Which is sad, because as before Crabbers actually have a high resistance cap, but zero way to take adavantage of it in a build or use it on a team. If they had a taunt, they could perform the "offtank" role if need be, as well as help their fragile pets survive. Another thing I would like to point out is the buff/toggles themselves, the only outstanding feature they have to call their own is the 10% Maneuvers, and thats it for the most part. Which is of questionable use later on, when most folks are close to or near the defense cap anyway. It's a welcome feature to be sure, but hardly anything to base an AT around. I suppose my point is that the Crabbermind doesn't really have any role or support. Simply being there helps the team with damage buffs, and its mediocure debuffs, but others have far better buffs/debuffs. Suggeted fixes: I would compare the buff and debuff values/powers damage/pet values against others. Becuase even when "redlining" the crabber, it seems rather lackluster. When homecoming first launched you would see them now and then, but now I rarely see any others. They were never a popular AT to begin with, but I still feel they are behind other ATs in their respective catagories. The toolkit for crabbers just lacks oomph and a defining role. Either its debuffs could be stronger, or its damage could be bumped up (But only a little bit, I don't think they would need much.) ------------------------------------------------------------------- Again, this is just me musing and making a wishlist of changes for my Favorite AT. It's my favorite class, but also one of my weakest which is a bummer, I do love the playstyle and feel of it. It does indeed feel like a ranged tanker of sorts. Like a mobile piece of artillery, even if it is a weak one. (by weak i dont mean in terms of dps, i just mean what the class has overall.) Other imput is certainly welcome! I'm not hoping for a total rehash or even that they make them OP or anything. It just feels like they really need a bump or two compaired to whats possible with everything else nowdays. Thanks bunches! And best wishes. TLDR - Please look at the pet defensive/offensive values, fix the support hybrid "bonus effect on pets" for all recharge pets, possibly add a taunt to the AT, and make it matter if you pick the backpack melee or ranged attacks. And do whatever it takes to make the T9 worth taking and using. Even if it was a new power entirely, that might be better whan what we have now.

I didnt test it, two other helpful people in discord did, their screenshots and the discussion is in the brute channel. But from what I gather both tested on the test server, and they did see a difference, though it was no where what mids said it should be. But as you already pointed out, Mids is more of a guide than a kiss your elbow true calculator to go by. But both of them provided screenshots.

Hello, thank you both for your responses. Both of you are kind of correct. I have zero tools/knowledge to crunch the numbers to vertify it or not, but some people in discord did and we spoke it ou tin the brute channel. I did make both a tanker and a brute, with the same build. And it was confirmed that fury does work, as far as the tanker vs brute damage, well it seems to vary. Low fury, tanker pulls ahead, full fury, its closer but brute edges out. But I dont think that shouldnt suprise anyone. But yes, my fury didnt seem to affect my damage much at all, at least not as much as other brute I had. And no i wasnt basing it only off mids, it was mostly off what i had observed and experienced, and i felt it was worth bringing up, not to get a DM to swoop in, but for those more experienced than myself to take a look. I spoke my concerns in discord, and a few advised me to make a ticket, and so here we are. I hope that clears things up a little. the TLDR though is that yes, fury is working. The tanker vs brute thing? Totally different story and entirely subjective to personal preferance.

This is my first bug report, so apologies if its not in proper format. I made both a tanker and a brute energy melee/bio, to compare the damages and whatnot. And in game, both with the same powers/incarnates/stances, the tanker does more damage. And (according to MIDS) at zero fury my Energy Transfer should do 600-ish, and at 80 fury it should be doing 1000-ish, but no matter what the fury is, it always does 600-ish. While my tankers does around 800 consistantly. So I have a hunch that the Brute Fury damage isnt being added/calculated, because my tanker version is doing 200+ more damage than the brute, with the exact same powerset/IOs. I don't have screen shots or anything to prove this, not sure what "evidence" is needed for ingame suspicions. Thank you for your time in advance! Neiners PS - to whom it may concern, others with more game knowledge than me tested it on the test server, and they said it was working. Still boggles me how theres that much of a gap between tanker vs brute with full fury, i would have assumed brute have more damage, not less. its weird.