Galaxy Brain

The "big hits" are hard to quantify. Usually they are not as frequent anyways, which averages out to a similar dps value. But for that, the sentinel version has an edge with its stacking absorb (per pineapple server)

So back on topic though... yeah, if the numbers got bumped up the proportions would probably still be about the same as above for Regen being good on tanks. It just requires much more activity, which could be good or bad.

I really like this proc idea, though I'm undecided on if it's too stronk. The issue is moreso the few high-mag attacks that also have decent base damage. If we do like, Mag*5 then non-high mag KB is just sorta in the same boat as now 🤔

Ok, so apparently I was tired as hell the other day when I did the calcs cus I messed up the defense value. The proportions are still the same but the "breaking" DPS is wrong due to me not factoring in the exponential way defense interacts with other layers: Peaks: Scrapper = 355 Sentinel = 230, Scrapper is 54% tougher Baseline: Scrapper = 64 Sentinel = 108, Sentinel is 69% tougher Sustain w MoG: Scrapper = 364 Sentinel = 285, Scrapper is 27% tougher Sustain no MoG: Scrapper = 227 Sentinel = 186, Scrapper is 22% tougher Just to double check, I also went back on pineapple to observe the Absorb Shield in action: The power does "tick" up in intervals of ~96 before capping at a sustained ~480, at least on Pineapple.... stealth patch? Anywho, for sake of comparison I converted all the Sentinel values into Scrapper numbers to create a "Scrapinel" Peaks: Scrapinel = 259, Scrapper is 37% tougher Baseline: Scrapinel = 119, Scrapinel is 85% tougher Sustain w MoG: Scrapinel = 329, Scrapper is 10% tougher Sustain no MoG: Scrapinel = 208, Scrapper is 9% tougher The Scrapinel is about ~12% tougher than the Sentinel, and ~15% closer of a gap compared to Sent vs Scrap. The baseline performance being much, much better is interesting. This allows you to much more passively attack and not worry about incoming DPS to a point, and with ~533 max absorb and ~107 absorb per tick, there is probably a lot of stuff you could shrug off! I am unsure what is better here honestly, the Sustains of each are within 10% of each other, but the Baseline performance is just way better with the Scrapinel than the Peak is better on the Scrapper (before recharge, but that also boosts Second Wind and the shared clicks that the Scrapinel has!) Lets look at some other sets Scrapper Invulnerability: Baseline = 1 target for Invincibility, no pool powers / clicks Baseline S/L: 31 Baseline Non Psy: 19 Baseline Avg: 25 Dull Pain Active = Full Invincibility saturation, pool powers (Tough, Weave, CJ, Manuevers) Dull Pain Active S/L: 204 Dull Pain Active Non Psy: 77 Dull Pain Avg: 140.5 Sustain = Use clicks as often as possible with Hasten + "Infinite time" Sustain S/L : 293 Sustain Non Psy : 111 Sustain Avg : 202 Scrapper Willpower: Baseline = 1 target for RttC, no pool powers / clicks. RttC was given 3 slots of -ToHit for giggles, this only effects melee but that also effects RttC regen so..... Baseline S/L/Psy: 89, Psy is essentially the same values as S/L so I'm, combining them Baseline Other: 88 Baseline Avg: 88.5 Peak = Full RttC saturation, pool powers (Tough, Weave, CJ, Manuevers), also show SoW active since it is a decent T9? Peak S/L: 289 Peak Psy: 281 Peak Other: 255 Peak Avg: 275 Peak S/L SoW: 538 Peak Psy SoW: 361 Peak Other SoW: 304 Peak Avg SoW: 401 Sustain = Use clicks as often as possible with Hasten + "Infinite time". In this case, just SoW averaged to 40% uptime Sustain S/L : 388 Sustain Psy : 309 Sustain Other : 272 Sustain Avg : 323 Using the averages with t9's (except invuln cus.... yeah) Regen actually doesn't seem too bad: Invuln Willpower Regen Scrapinel Regen Baseline (Avg) 25 88.5 64 119 Peak (Avg) 140.5 401 355 259 Sustain (Avg) 202 323 364 329 No SoW / MoG : Invuln Willpower Regen Scrapinel Regen Peak 104.5 275 355 259 Sustain 202 275 227 208 S/L: Invuln Willpower Regen Scrapinel Regen Baseline (S/L) 31 89 64 119 Peak (S/L) 204 538 355 259 Sustain (S/L) 293 388 364 329 No SoW / MoG : Invuln Willpower Regen Scrapinel Regen Peak 204 289 355 259 Sustain 293 289 227 208

Hmm, possible but it still doesnt give the "wow" value for the high magnitude KB powers which are the real subject of ire, since outside of say... Nova, few are amazing attacks.

@The Philotic Knight Playing with this a bit more, I decided to look into a few powers and look at enhancing the effect. Lets start with Blasters. The KB bonus is: (Mag * 10) * 1.125 (Blaster Range Mod) Total Dam = Base Dam + KB Bonus Avg Dam = Base Dam + (KB Bonus * % Chance to KB) Boost = % damage increase compared to base With no enhancement, at level 50, you can see where certain powers may benefit very well from such a change. Namely, powers that have a 100% chance to knock back with huge magnitude. Lets add in 175% KB enhancement: This slotting will require 3 lvl 50 KB IO's in each power. Lets see 3 damage IO's for 98% enhancement: For some powers, it looks like the damage enhancement should be more fruitful. Namely Power Bolt, power Blast, Power Burst, Sniper Blast, and if going by "average" damage with the KB chance, Explosive Blast. The rest are more damaging with KB enhancement, but with the caveat that of course you are yeeting people everywhere. Both values x3 enhanced: Events out a bit more.... and lastly lets look at Build Up + 3 enhancements each: So yeah, perhaps there should be some sort of tweaking for AoEs / lower chance vs guaranteed KB, but I'm not sure. If the KB damage is a proc, it won't be effected by further +Damage boosts outside of +Knockback effects you somehow aquire. Any procs, or immobilizes / holds, or natural resistances to knockback would probably effect the proc as well if the magnitudes are decreased. So sure, Nova may be wumbo-sized against a rando minion, but vs a boss in an Immobilize it may not even do bonus damage.

@Mr.Sinister, good call on that number. I edited the post after finding I had a typo for the Sentinel Sustain calc that boosted it a bit higher than it was!

I dont think it's like a moral failing so much as a more subconscious thing. When given the choice between the two, you go Council cus F Carnies. If Carnies gave more reward, there would at least be the thought of risk vs reward at play to experience more content, and Carnies naturally have harder fights anyways where it wont be as much a faceroll.

@Mr.Sinister. Odd, on test last night it stacked up to a high amount 🤔 I'll check again when I'm home and not on mobile Edit: the sustain was factoring in the heal over time of Second Wind which the peak did not account for iirc due to the Sustain being averaged over infinite time. SW has higher uptimes than any scrapper regen power so it contributes a ton before we factor in +rech from outside. Next test may be looking at WP and Invuln...

Meh, short circuit and power sink are still the highlights even with this.

@Mr.Sinister Ok, so I crunched some numbers on Scrapper vs Sentinel regen values with basic IO slotting (lvl 50 generics) alongside slotting Tough, Weave, CJ and Maneuvers for their respective defenses, oh and of course 3 slotted hasten. Lets look at their Peaks, their Baseline, and their Sustain: Peaks: For both, MoG is essentially the Mario Super-Star power up for 15 seconds, so lets ignore that. Scrapper = 32.7% SL res / 14.86% other res, 12.52% defense vs all, 178.8 HP/Sec (Recon, DP, IH, Base), and 2139.33 max HP. Breaking Point (point where DPS overtakes mitigation) = 304 SL DPS, 241 other DPS Sentinel = 30.51% SL res / 13.87% other res, 11.93% defense vs all, 89.29 HP/Sec (Recon, Second Wind, Base), and 2088.2 max HP (AT Cap). Absorb stats = on top of this, Instant Regen gives 5 stacks of 95.94 Absorb, with ~3 seconds between stacks. This maxes out at 479.7 absorb, meaning that to actually hit the sentinel's hp you have to deal > 31.98 dps for over 15 whole seconds, or hit for > 480 damage in one hit. Effective HP/Sec = 121.26, Effective Max HP = 2567.9 Breaking Point (point where DPS overtakes mitigation) = 199 SL DPS, 160 other DPS. The absorb really gets weird here as the more time between attacks landing, the bigger this number becomes... Scrapper Peaks vs Sentinel Peaks = Scrapper wins here, with about 50% better peak mitigation outside of the build-up of absorb over time which is a big X-factor depending on the encounter.... Baseline: This will be looking at the "non emergency" performance of both versions, where you are mainly focusing on other powers than your Regen powers (aside from Reconstruction as it recharges so fast). This also has no Pool Powers to look at the minimal regen performance. Scrapper = 14.86% res, 54.45 HP/Sec, and 1338.62 max HP. Breaking Point = 64 DPS Sentinel = 13.87% res, 92.17 HP/Sec (Effective with Absorb), and 1637.14 max HP Breaking Point = 108 DPS Scrapper Baseline vs Sentinel Baseline = Sentinel wins here, with 69% better mitigation when essentially played passively. Sustain: This will be looking at "average" performance of both versions given you use all your powers as often as possible over an infinite amount of time, with hasten's average recharge boost factored in as well as MoG's average up-time factored in. SL and Other resists are also averaged out for assumed mixed damage encounters. Scrapper = 34.17% res, 22.91% Def, 129.52 HP/Sec, and 1966.75 max HP. Breaking Point = 256 DPS Sentinel = 31.89% res, 21.63% Def, 109.96 HP/Sec (Effective with Absorb), and 2064.12 max HP Breaking Point = 207 DPS Scrapper Sustain vs Sentinel Sustain = Scrapper wins here by about 25% BIG EDIT: had a typo in my calc for the Sentinel sustain which showed a wrong number. So, overall on sustain the two are roughly similar with Scrapper Regen being better by a bit but requiring you juggle more powers than the Sentinel version. Passively, the Sentinel is much stronger than the Scrapper if you're just focusing on your primary. Actively, the Scrapper is a bit tougher with the sustained survival though over time I think the Sentinel has a much better self rez which is kind of an X factor, and the Absorb Shield can negate some damage entirely depending on the scenario. At their Peaks, the Scrapper pulls way ahead but requires much more management.

AE would be a nice option if it were possible to have dynamic rewards. Custom enemies is something that is tracked, but then looking at: Multiple damage types More than 2 powers chosen Armored enemies Enemies with support powers Etc That way a typical "farm" map with easy enemies made to cater to a specific build would be less rewarding than a diverse, challenging set of enemies. Edit: Or even just weighing certain individual powers on custom enemies! I played an arc based on a DnD campaign on test that featured "electric wizards" running the Elec Control aura. A few of those in a crowd are sure to make you think twice about your approach and would certainly be harder than an enemy with say, Fast Healing.

That may be with your crew, but look at LFG on any given night or even in SG chats where people opt to have people join in on farms / etc. If you have a close knit group of people, awesome! You can run with whatever however you all seem fit. This does not address Random group #9832457 or the populace as a whole though. I would like to see efforts rewarded to where a bigger portion of players may be encouraged to try the hard stuff outside of those who actively aim for it for sheer glory.

There is some great stuff out there if you wanna crank up the challenge (Night Ward anyone?). But, why do that when you could just stomp council in PI for the same price?

These points also roll into the other where "Any combo can solo 4/8 when decked out". We can deck out all characters to where we eclipse all challenges in the game, so what we need is something challenging for those who are decked out.

Lets not derail into the game shutting down. Anywho, I brought up DM as it is the worst performing melee set in a vacuum. There are certain synergies that are nice sure, but overall it's kinda odd when compared to other sets in similar circumstances. The metric chosen of course was average clear time of a standardized mission with standardized difficulty settings for SO's. With an IO'd out build it was still the slowest, being outperformed by TW on SO's. Time to take down mobs is an important metric as faster clears = less time to them to fight you and more rewards/time. Dark Melee provides some safety with how you can lower tohit on enemies, but with the abysmal AoE it has trouble applying that -ToHit to groups of enemies (which outside of a boss fight are what actually pose threats) on top of dealing with those enemies efficiently in more direct terms. In a one on one fight it does well, but then you can't effectively leverage soul drain + Purple Patch hurts ToHit debuffs when it counts. Buffing it to be better would be awesome, but it would technically make the game easier given it does have many strengths... Nerfing other sets down to DM's level would make the game harder, but just try selling that one. This is not to say that DM is bad either! Its really cool conceptually and we all know the couple of godly powers it has. Its just as a kit by itself it is not as efficient as other melee sets. Which is sorta the same "problem" I see as the root of the difficulty conversation: why play DM when you could use War Mace / etc for more power?

Cut it out with the personal attacks. Trying to "out" each other solves nothing, as does bringing up why CoH got shut down. Anyways, bringing up certain power combos or even ATs as "Easy Mode" points more toward a balance problem than an overarching difficulty problem. If Rad melee makes the game easy... what about Dark Melee? Does that make the game hard? Should DM be buffed to RM levels or RM be nerfed to DM levels? Either choice is bad, in theory. The better option would be to help the sets that are not in that list be closer to said list via buffs, and then throw a bone to what these newly powered sets will be fighting. That redside comment hits home though. I think that before anything is done, looking backwards the reward structure should be looked at. Blueside is easier than Redside. Council are easier than Malta. In both cases though, you get the same rewards and incentives for both... so why would you play redside malta missions instead of blueside council?

Whoa, tbf it died for outside reasons. Agreed. Having overlap is actually a good thing as you can have multiple people fill that "Rad" niche without needing to specifically be Rad. Rad may be the best for that niche, but other things can help in that category plus bring their own unique traits.

That is another factor. If you can solo 4/8 currently... what need is there to team outside of events that require other players to start? Making teaming more valuable (and the optional team difficulties increase value!) would be nice.

Gonna have to side with @Klalearahere, though I also do not want to see this back! The environment has shifted here for sure since those days, namely there are different sets available / power tweaks that make other things besides rad shine. Due to the purple patch, Buffs are as valued as debuffs, and many secondary effects help in tough fights. When I envision tactics, I picture needing to pull enemies, place enemies in certain spots, take down certain key targets first, and so on. This would bring value to CC and ST damage which are currently almost a novelty in today's game.

Im not, Im trying to please the people who want more difficult content to test themselves. Which is why optional would be best. This doesn't seem like much of an obstacle? Its been fully figured out (Skill Ceiling) but that can easily be altered. This is cyclical... a new melee set that promotes "hard mode" would need to compete with the good sets, where it'll fall unless it did something weird like gave you bonus Inf per hit. You could also nerf the good sets to match this new set in general but that'd be an even harder sell. The root of the problem still exists in that the meta favors certain traits that are bolstered by certain sets and inherits, not the other way around. I do not think that raising the skill ceiling in optional content goes against the design at all. The hard-coded nature may be troublesome, but that is an unknown depending on what is done.

There is a reason that the most popular pick in the poll is "Increased Diff only if it is optional". The poll options were created based on the various threads I observed that brought up difficulty tweaks, but few if any asked for total overhauls at all levels of play. The amazing thing about CoH is that its so accessible. However, this can also be a detriment to some players just as how a game being unforgiving is a detriment to others. The latter is already taken care of with how low the skill floor / barrier to entry CoH is. The game can reasonably be completed 100% on the common SO's that drop and get bought from stores, and on 0/1 difficulty. All powerset combos "Work" with none actually being "bad / unplayable". This is amazing and a testament to the base design. HC further improves this by making some things even more accessible, such as incarnate powers that naturally progress as you go beyond 50. But even then they are optional in the sense that you do have to go out of your way to make them and slot them, etc. Hot take: I don't think Incarnates by themselves are that bad. Has anyone used incarnate powers on a strictly SO build...? Anywho, back to the point. The main issue comes with how low the skill ceiling is. Namely, if the "floor" is just using SO's and powers willy nilly, the next steps from that are using advanced slotting and strategies which quickly outpace the content. This is where we see 4/8 difficulty being the "norm" for many players and even then its just bigger numbers to chew through. I'm willing to bet that a good majority of HC players at least dabble with inventions if not have full builds planned out. In 2020 with Reddit, these forums, discord, FB groups, and so on the info is out there and easy to attain to jump into the more advanced meta. On top of this, HC has removed barriers (overall a good thing!) to get the good stuff. What this leads to is faceroll. When it is easier to increase your character's power beyond what the game can throw at you, it actually simplifies the gameplay down to what we see now: throw as much damage as fast as you can while covering your own butt. It invalidates a bunch of cool strategies that do not fit that mold. Adding in new difficulty options (with incentives) would allow for more diversity of builds and strategies, and allow more dynamic encounters for those who want to push their limits to chew on. Keeping it optional will retain the skill floor while raising the skill ceiling for a win-win. Edit: The tactical comment in the prior post is questionable. There are clear attempts to do so with Carnies, Malta and even Sky Raiders / Crey with how certain mobs require a bit different approach at times.

Essentially, a radical transformation for the "better". Banished pantheon being a prime CoH example.

Edited the above post given that 3 lvl 50 KB IO's boosts by 175%, not 180% Lets look at some other examples on Corruptor sets if we simply did "Mag x 10": Gale = 8.31 - 22.88 KB, 100% chance Damage = 83 - 223 Force Bolt = 8.64 - 23.76, 100% chance Damage = 87 - 238 Archery for comparison: Fistful of Arrows = 37.95 - 74 Aimed Shot = 41.71 - 81.34 That also seems off, given that those KB powers out-do similar ranged attack powers in raw damage (though when slotted for KB you are also absolutely yeeting enemies possibly out of your own range). A simpler fix could just be: KB damage = (Mag * 10) * AT Range Mod Blaster Energy Blast: (1.125 dam mod) Power Bolt = 12 - 32 >>> 14 - 36 Power Burst = 34 - 91 >>> 39 - 103 Power Push = 133 - 366 >>> 150 - 412 Corruptor Energy Blast: (0.75 dam mod) Power Bolt = 12 - 32 >>> 9 - 24 Power Burst = 34 - 91 >>> 26 - 69 Power Push = 133 - 366 >>> 100 - 275 Corruptor Gale = 83 - 223 >>> 63 - 168 Corruptor Force Bolt = 87 - 238 >>> 66 - 179 This seems better.... hrm

"Glow-Up" is a term the kidz use to describe a personal improvement. Look at Neville in the early movies vs Neville in the last one for example 😉 Or Banished Pantheon pre and post DA, or hell DA itself lol