Galaxy Brain

That I am unsure of. Water would be an easier test than DB at least since it does not have a complex combo mechanic, it's just use C to make Y better. Corruptor scourge is hard to quantify as well.

I think what everyone is clamoring for is an AT, or maybe even just a set, that has a ton of auras? So like how (big bubble) from Force Field effects you and the team, a bunch of seperate powers that act like this to protect you and your allies in some fashion is something that is missing imo.

So it looks like a bit of a nerf actually... hm, would have thought powers with >2s activation would ha e been buffed.

I wonder how the meta would shift if the PvP damage formula is used... its mostly buffs iirc due to the animations?

Stacked KB does stack, which is why you sometimes see somebody flung out of a KD patch like ice slick if another KD happens at the exact same time. Anywho, say we do go for a Damage Proc (smashing) for KB when it occurs. How strong should it be? Let's throw Energy's Power Bolt (T1 blast) out as an example. It deals ~63 damage at lvl 50 for a blaster at base, with a 20% chance to deal mag 1.163 knockback. Ignoring the chance, let's throw this at the wall: KB damage = Base damage * (Mag - 1) [Mag will clamp to 0 if the number would be negative, IE knockdowns] KB Damage = 63 * (0.163) KB damage = 10.269 [10 or 11 damage] Total = ~74 Total w dmg enh = ~133 With full KB enhancement, you increase the mag by about 175%, so the 1.163 becomes 3.198 KB damage = 63 * (2.198) KB damage = 138.48 [138 or 139] Total = ~202 ... Total w dmg enh = ~261 That may be a bit much... let's look at some others for giggles. Power Burst (T3 blast) Base damage = ~133 KB base mag = 3.323, 60% chance KB damage = ~309 - ~1082 Total = ~442 - ~1333 Power Push (utility with wumbo KB) Base Damage = 17 Base Mag = 13.294, 100% chance KB damage = 209 - 605 Total = 226 - 640 So yeah, that would be as the experts call "a big oof". Alternatively, we could just do: KB damage = Mag * 10? Power Bolt = 12 - 32 dmg (20-50% of base dmg) Power Burst = 34 - 91 (25-70% of base) Power Push = 133 - 366 (lol % of base) This would not scale per AT outside of odd KB mods, but the base attack damage would be separate.

That is the go to for top-end DPS, but that is also not exactly realistic when it comes to normal gameplay.

Actually, we do have a point of reference with my melee set testing: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W6KAQFJwSP44hd1MHJiPPYCw4yFetHvTomfbMQR3z2M/edit?usp=drivesdk The average run time of all the melee primaries with /wp as a control was 05:51. Let's just call it 6min to be safe. These tests were run on SO slotting at +0/x3 with 3 guaranteed boss spawns + a guarenteed EB spawn. At x3, the spawn sizes were between11-5 in size with various enemy rank configurations, and the map included obstacles that could mess with enemy grouping / your movement. It was common to aggro more than one group at once hitting aggro cap as well as AoE caps for all your melee powers. In short, the mission simulator gives a good baseline of your standard mission outside of X factor objectives. WP had no powers to interrupt hour primary outside the revive and T9 which were both essentially outlawed anyways to focus on the primary. The enemies are dangerous enough to SO WP that just standing there will end up killing you, but not so much that just jumping mob to mob will end you (again, to allow the primary's soft control and other bonuses to factor in). Anyways, given what we observed with a ~6 minute completion time, IH would only be available about once and probably best used for the EB spawn and surrounding enemies. DP would be available twice or more and be a good help in general, and MoG is in sorta the same boat as IH. Sent regen trades the preemptive defense of the Scrapper version for a higher passove mitigation and another reactive heal in their version of revive. I think running through these with both could give insight on the ups and downs of each.

Best to stick to the current forums imo

Well, it very much depends on the practical test you wanna throw at it. With Dull Pain -and- IH up regen has great survival assuming you dont get one shot by something. The issue is that IH has between a 14 - 27% natural uptime before outside bonuses, and DP similarly has uptime issues until you get enough rech to make it perma, which the sent version does not have a problem with given it has a passive +hp and a toggle version of IR that works a bit differently. The reason why I stretched it out is that it's tough to measure them on equal footing otherwise. The scrapper version may be better in bursts once or twice a mission, but then in between those times it is worse than the Sent version. Similarly, in those scenarios where burst is needed the Sent also has a second version of reconstruction that scrappers do not have that scales with missing HP, boosted again by the passive hp boost. I think what we need is a more practical way to compare the two.

As in bump it to be slower rech if its aoe

Bump the recharge and make it PBAoE so you can use it once a fight or so. Done.

Further down I have a breakdown of scrapper vs sentinel regen with what I could gleam. The absorb version of Instant Regen gives you a layer worth 5% your max hp every 3 seconds, that lasts 3 seconds. This can be enhanced to roughly 10%. So within 3 seconds, after resistances and defenses, you have to take more than 10% of your health in order to actually hit your real hp. Any hits to that layer you do take will be negated when it refreshes again. Given that attacks are not truly "constant", any small gap between hits will let you refresh this shield easily for hit after hit, and many smaller attacks simply wont phase you. While that layer takes hits, the smaller amount that does come through or the big hits that eat through it have time to regenerate normally.

It gives sentinels about 45% more effective mitigation than scrappers in a head on comparison. Edit cus on mobile: Sentinel's absorb layer works like the Blaster sustains in the best way. It constantly applies a layer of absorb roughly equal to 5% of your max hp unenhanced. So it's not like a +5% max hp, and more like "I subtract 5% of my hp worth of incoming damage per attack", assuming a regular pace of incoming dps.

I would imagine it to be a proc that occurs when KB does that scales on the applied mag as well.

In the other regen thread I show how strong the absorb toggle (and passive +hp) from sentinel regen is. Port that to all versions and it would be able to shrug off constant "minor" damage to a much better degree with what amounts to two layers of regen.

Devils advocate, but KB enhancements are 60% per pop, twice as powerful as damage enhancements, capping at around 180% with ED. If a power slotted for damage and KB gets dead guys everywhere, I see that as a win.

Like I said, in a vacuum it is bad (KM is also only better than DM...) there are synergies for sure but there is also a lot of downsides.

Done that, DM is the worst melee set in a vacuum while StJ is a solid A tier set, below TW, Katana, and Staff.

Maybe just help with the endurance a smidge and that's it?

Reposting from another thread, the below is not a real world example but shows a quick breakdown of the two regen sets over time: I'm gonna throw out some napkin math vs a magical DPS turret where the characters have infinite time to work their magic. Scrapper at lvl 50, no enhancements: Passive: 1339 Max HP / 1874.5 with Dull Pain. Base Regen with Fast Healing, Health, and Integration - 20.36 hps / 28.51 hps with DP Resilience gives 9.4% res vs all damage which is nice, effectively increasing your HP / Healing by that amount too Active: Dull Pain has a ~33% uptime, also heals 40% of your HP instantly Reconstruction has a 60s cooldown and instantly heals 25% hp (either 334.75 or 468.625 hp with DP) Instant Healing has a pitiful ~14% uptime. While active, your regen jumps to - 65 hps / 90.99 hps with DP for 90s, which over triples your base healing Revive is.... just for when you die, but it does bounce you back with near max HP. MoG is also... MoG. Pop it and be godmode for 15 sec 🤷‍♂️ Math: If we were to sit the Scrapper in front of the magic DPS turret that fires non stop DPS, we can observe the following: 100 incoming DPS, which should shred the scrapper up in 13.39 seconds 100 DPS -> 90.6 DPS from Resilience 90.6 DPS - 20.36 regen = 70.24 DPS Recon can be seen as 25% HP (334.75) / 60s, or 5.58 regen -> 64.66 DPS Dull Pain similarly can be seen as 535.4 hp / 360s, or ~1.5 regen -> 63.16 DPS With it's uptime, we could see DP as effectively a 13.2% HP increase... changing our values: 23.05 base regen + (468.625/60) = 7.81 Reconstruction regen + 1.5 DP regen --> 32.36 effective regen --> 58.24 DPS vs 1515.75 HP Instant Healing while active will add about 50.52 extra regen for 90s while its active, or 82.88 hps total all things added up -> 7.72 dps If we use the uptime though, this becomes 7.07 extra regen, 39.43 -> 51.17 DPS Final DPS taken = 51.17, time to defeat = 29.62 seconds MoG has a 6.25% uptime, which if we want to treat it the same vs the magic DPS turret would = 4.46 Def/Res to pretty much everything over infinite time. We'll say the defense lowers incoming DPS (in a vacuum) by 4.46% -> 95.4 9.4 + 4.46 res = 13.86 res -> 82.18 DPS to start Final DPS taken = 42.75, time to defeat = 35.46 seconds Sentinel at lvl 50, no enhancements: Passive: 1494.14 Max HP thanks to Dismiss Pain. Base Regen with Fast Healing, Health, and Integration - 22.72 hps Resilience gives 8.8% res vs all damage which is nice, effectively increasing your HP / Healing by that amount too Instant Regeneration is a big factor here, as while active it gives you a layer of 5% Absorb every 3 sec that lasts for 3 sec. This is equal to 74.71 / 3 sec, or 24.9 Absorb/sec. We will assume the latter when we put it in front of the DPS turret. Active: Reconstruction has a 60s cooldown and instantly heals 25% hp (373.535), this can equal 6.23 extra regen Second Wind is a big X Factor... but it has a 250s base recharge compared to Dull Pain's 360 and Instant Healing's 650. Objectively speaking, this could be a huge deal vs Burst Damage combined with Reconstruction. MoG grants 66.5% Def/Res for Sents, which at the same 6.25% uptime = 4.16 Def/Res Math: If we were to sit the Sentinel in front of the same magic DPS turret that fires non stop DPS, we can observe the following: 100 incoming DPS, which should shred the Sentinel up in 14.94 seconds 100 DPS -> 91.2 DPS from Resilience That 91.2 DPS is now directly negated by the 24.9 Absorb/Sec from Insta Regen -> 66.3 DPS 66.3 DPS - 22.72 regen, - 6.23 Reconstruction Regen = 37.35 DPS Final DPS taken = 37.35, time to defeat = 40.00 seconds MoG = 4.16 Def/Res to pretty much everything over infinite time. We'll say the defense lowers incoming DPS (in a vacuum) by 4.16% -> 95.84 8.8 + 4.16 res = 12.96 res -> 83.42 DPS to start 83.42 - 24.9 absorb -> 58.52 DPS - 28.95 effective regen = 29.57 DPS Final DPS taken = 29.57, time to defeat = 50.53 seconds This is without the benefit of Second Wind even factored in, but at a basic level it looks like in this hypothetical scenario the Sentinel is about 35 - 43% tougher than the Scrapper, without using one of it's heals! I'm gonna factor in some basic SO slotting here to see where the values end up with 3 recharges / etc in the mix... I have to double the incoming DPS to 200 since Sentinel Regen was immortal vs 100 dps.... going to ignore MoG too because complex Scrapper - Reduces 200 DPS down to 71.28 DPS, time to defeat = 25.99 seconds Sentinel - Reduces 200 DPS down to 30.16 DPS, time to defeat = 54.1 seconds Scrapper with Sentinel Regen: Scrapinel Regen - Reduces 200 DPS down to 19.59 DPS, time to defeat = 92.54 seconds The major differences here are that Absorb Shield taking away from damage to your HP directly, on top of a passive +HP.

Turn regen into Sentinel regen. In a similar thread I showed that their version on scrapper numbers is straight up better.

What I mean by map dependent is how you need certain geometry to really ragdoll a guy to where they get "stuck", and not all rooms have it.

True, though that is very map dependent and even then is rng when done well :<

Other threads are usually about nerfing KB or disabling it. I'd rather have KB be much more potent because its usually treated more as a primary effect than a secondary.

The animation times are standardized for the blast sets at least, and I dont want KB to just be "fine" 😉