Psi-bolt

Have done so many times, most people think it's OK but too clicky. I have given people tips on how to make it less so. Usually this is when I'm playing my Brute and people are surprised that I'm not dying. No one is saying that Regen is some godlike set that stands above all others. As I said earlier in the thread, it's not that, and frankly even going back to Issue 1 it wasn't that. But likewise, no one I have interacted with has said that Regen is this terrible set that has no value. Regen's issues have been debated ad nauseum in this thread, so I won't rehash. I'll just reiterate my point. Regen is...fine. Not good, not bad, just fine. It plays so much differently than other sets that I think most players would just prefer to take a set that allows you to softcap defense and steamroll. Hell, I personally enjoy that too. I'm a big fan of Ninjitsu and Energy Aura for that reason.

The darn horse took Revive, Snarky. It’s not our fault it keeps coming back for more.

No quarrel with your point here, but I remember when I was playing SWTOR and PvPing regularly if there were a power like MoG given to any class, there would have been a riot talking about how broken and unfair it is. City of Heroes is a funny but deeply odd game.

It would be...fine. Still not great, but much better than it is now. The issue I have with Regen is probably the same as everyone else's, the set is too focused on reacting to damage instead of protecting you from being damaged. Sentinel Instant healing helps with that, but the concern that I have with absorb shields is that it's not as easy to stack different sources to improve your mitigation like with defense and resistance. For Sentinels, this is almost irrelevant because they don't draw as much damage as melee characters. If I were to be allowed to "fix" Regen, my main goal would be to turn Instant Healing to a power similar to Invincibility or Rise to the Challenge. I.e. a power that scales it's mitigation. Thus it could be more potent and would work better in a set like Regen that, to your point, doesn't need help with easier content. What kind of mitigation wouldn't be super important, but I think for everyone to really enjoy the set again it would have to be resistance or defense.

I have an Ice/Regen Scrapper. I created with the same idea as you did. I thought it was survivable enough, but yes I thought it was much too slow at killing for a Scrapper. My Ice/Regen Sentinel is more fun.

Honestly, hyperbole like this is where you lose me. Saying that ANY set that can handle +4/x8 spawns of ANY faction is "complete and utter garbage" is just over the top. It has problems, it's not for everyone, certainly it's not for you anymore. Regen which gets most of its protection in a reactive manner is not ever going to be as good as some other sets. Even Issue 1 Regen MAY just barely survive the standard you've set for it.

As I said back in 2004-2005 to Statesman and Geko, I don't think Regen was ever as good as everyone portrayed it. We forget now what kind of loony crap you could do prior to ED. I remember Fire Tankers herding most of the NPCs in Brickstown and burning them down. Invulnerability basically not dying because the damage sources were even more biased towards Smashing, Lethal than they are now. Regen had a particular problem. If it survived the first 2-5 seconds of the fight, it won. Period. AVs, large mobs of enemies, whatever. The catch was that you didn't always survive those first 2-5 seconds. Also as someone noted above, it also was a set where you played to level 28, got Instant Healing, and then rebuilt your whole secondary around having that one power on at all times. The developers at the time repeatedly took the wrong tack to correct this problem by removing regeneration from Integration and Instant Healing. Then they made Instant Healing a long term click because they were too unimaginative to realize that changing a power from a toggle to a click was every bit as much of a change in the essential nature of the power as changing it from a regeneration buff to a resistance buff or something. But that's water under the bridge. Frankly, Regen is maybe the worst set for some. I honestly don't see it as that bad, even though I think it should be buffed (a bit).

I’m not sure what difficulty you will be using but at baseline all four of those sets should be able to make it to 25 without any deaths at all unless you’re pushing the difficulty way beyond what lowbies are expected to accomplish. I’m not sure what the point would be, then. There are other considerations such as time investment since to the extent that Regen has any advantage over other sets, limited downtime is one.

This is a painful topic. Regen was within a doubt the set that was nerfed the most among armor sets. It plays completely differently than it did in the beginning.

I don’t want to straw man either you or Solarverse so I’ll just ask directly. What level of performance do you believe is necessary before a set is considered “good” or even “acceptable?” I confess that we might be coming to the question from vastly different assumptions.

The standard you’re suggesting isn’t a set that is decent or good. What you’re suggesting is a level of play that is well beyond what I think any sane developer would balance a set around. I know some sets can achieve this level of play but the inability to solo Arachnos maps at +4/x8 doesn’t make a set weak or imbalanced. By the way, last week’s Khan WST showed me that Regen can handle +1 or +2 Arachnos just fine.

If we are trying to get Regen where it is perceived to be even with the other sets it needs another toggle. The set is too click heavy, my comments above notwithstanding

The thing is almost every power set needs IOs in order to be worth something. Any defense set (well except maybe Tanker SR) needs to improve its defense to get to the softcap. Most resistance focused sets needs help to cap out the most important resistances. Both kinds of sets need to layer on the other type to get really good. Regen is really no different. Its problem is that, yes, it is too focused on clicks which pushes you to build differently than most folks are used to. But I don’t find that it takes more investment that any other melee armor set to get good.

Sigh…. Regen is fine. Any of the protection power sets by themselves are fine. Any of the protection sets, including Regen, with decent investment is amazing. I have both a Regen Brute and a Regen Scrapper with capped Smashing, Lethal resistance and 25-35% to everything else. They don’t die in +4/x8 spawns. All that said, Instant Healing could stand to be replaced with a resistance or defense toggle. Preferably defense.

Interesting topic. For my part I would modify the following groups: Nemesis - This group just never really made sense to me as a high level group. It's just a paramilitary organization created to feed one man's ego. I would see them disband as Nemesis begins his journey to become Mender Silos. (is that really a spoiler at this point?) I would echo the changes folks would make to the Freaks and Warriors. But finally, there's one group that should be disbanded, imprisoned in the Zig, burned in a fire, etc. And that the architects and interior designers of Paragon City. Office maps alone justify their elimination with extreme prejudice. 😁

This is true. If Tankers ever got Regen, I would build for Smashing, Lethal and Energy resists. Most of the end-game "alpha strikes" tend to come from one of those sources. I think by the midgame a Tanker Regen character with some investment would be great.

With Tanker modifiers, all you would need is Tough to get to about 43% Sm, Le; 20% to everything else with SOs. With cheap IOs you could easily get that to capped Sm, Le; 35-45% for the rest. With a lot of healing and regeneration on top of that that scales with Health, I don’t think it would be as bad as you think. Regen doesn’t even need to be particularly click heavy unless you want it to be.

I’m pretty sure they were aware, but was suggesting that instead of the OP’s idea for additional power picks the OP instead consider playing a Sentinel. Which in my opinion is a vastly better idea than ignoring the big selling point of Kheldians.

It’s just a comedy and a funny one. After seeing it I thought any controversy was manufactured.

There are characters I avoid taking through the Incarnate powers just for this reason. I have a character that's a reformed Thugs MM who became a FF Defender and a school counselor. Once she got to 50, she just went back to work. I pull her out sometimes to do a TF, but she's only involved in the Praetorian War's parts that "normal" heroes are like the Sutter TF and the lower level arcs.

I think Regen is better on a Sentinel. Sentinels are rarely in the thick of fighting so having a reactive type of protection really works well. With max investment both can have very high levels of resistance to the most common damage types in high level play. But then WP will have more defense, while Regen more healing.

I agree, but I would suggest alternative powers like with Sentinel Super Reflexes. Where if you take the revamped power you can't take the legacy power.

Maybe not that unpopular an argument, but there are Tanker secondaries (looking at Super Strength primarily) that would be loony toons broken on a Scrapper. Which means it's probably too powerful as a Tanker/Brute set. But, I'm not sure that AT modifiers are intended to represent the precise mathematical difference between ATs. The original devs did a lot of stuff iteratively often stopping when sets "felt right". Not that what they felt was always consistent with good balance mind you.

They could license the right to operate the game and expand the IP with profit sharing and a right to reclaim if someone were to do really well with it. Honestly, that's what I've found so insane about NCSoft's actions. You absolutely could craft a deal that protects their interests and allows them to earn from the IP. If it weren't for so many other video game IP owners being similarly myopic, I would be surprised.

Managed to get in under the wire.