Arbegla

While I completely accept that argument, unless I'm horribly mistaken, no one else has come out to say what City of Heroes is balanced around. +0/1x used to be the standard of balance, and while we're WAY past that, what is it now?

What are we talking then? Most Mez's are in Mags of 3 to 4, so give every Archetype 5 points of Mez Protection, and give Melee characters double or triple that? Enough to shake off 1 Mez, but not enough to really matter if things get stacked?

Ok, without doing away with Mez completely, as they make sense thematically in a super hero based game and universe, what would you do to fix it?

I'd say its relevant in the scale of Balance, and what the overall game is balanced around. We can assume that game is balanced around +0/1, on SOs, because that used to be the old metric, but there are plenty of builds that can solo +4/8 with ease. Whatever the overall game is balanced around matters.

Offensive ones sure, but defensive toggles only suppress, and if this power is usable while mez'ed, it wont matter that much. Or you can make it a click with a 1 second recharge, that has an end cost (or some other effect, like -rech?) that grants Mez resistance, to get the Mez to drop faster.

Not to throw fuel on this fire, but how much of this is set at the highest of high end IO/Incarnate power levels? Cuz that matters a bit more in the overall aspect of comparing apples to apples.

So having a scaling Mez resistance (not protection, just resistance) mechanic, could work. The arguments against if its needed or not can be made another time, but thematically, its possible, and makes sense. I could even see this being a 'Resist Status Effect' Accolade power, that grants something like 25% resistance for say, 60 seconds, with a 300 second recharge, and be unaffected by recharge (even global) so you can't perma it, but the effect scales based on the Mez badges you have, so after 10 hours of being Mez'ed, you have 75% resistance. (so things last 1/4 the time) It won't prevent toggle drops, and Mez will still be a challenge, but it allows you to do something while you're stuck. Kinda like the Eye of the Magus Accolade power, and how its basically a T9 for a minute or so, with very little drawback.

This is more a mechanics question, but does Status Effect Resistance apply even after you have a Status Effect applied to you? I/E, you get hit with an 8 second hold, then someone puts Accelerated metabolism on you, does the 8 second hold then go down to ~4 seconds? (I think I did the math right on that..) Or does it only apply to 'new' status effects?

As a means to get back on track, I do like this idea, but the devil is in the details, and implementing it, when there are already plenty of other ways to circumvent Status Effect might not be much value added. Though, now that I think about it, it might be possible to create a new Accolade power that scales based on say, the Mez badges you have. So the more you've been Mez'ed, the more 'resistant' you are to them. Granted, this requires actually getting mez'ed in the first place, but it could make getting those badges actually useful instead of just a 'for show' thing, and it conceptually makes sense. The more you're affected by something, the more you would resist it. (the mez badges are these: https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Restrained_Badge)

I still think its not quite an apples to apples comparison. There are a lot of things to factor in for an ITF completion time, and Mez really isn't one of them. Especially if you leverage speed clears, instead of kills alls (or even kill mosts)

Bill, I've hit the point where I'm not sure if you're serious or not. You're a highly respected long term player, and while I do understand the frustration of lack of Mez Protection on squishy characters, that's almost entirely the point of those characters.. They do something at base value that characters with mez protection can't do. Usually they have a range preference, or offer buff/debuffs that have multiplicative benefits, etc. Yes, your highly specific and fine tuned characters might be able to do things better and faster then a typical base value melee character could do, but that doesn't mean others can. That's the balance.

I know there are some powers that don't have a positional defense tag, and I thought Mind Control had them.. I can't actually access City of Data at work, so I'll just have to come back to this another time.

I don't know about that..: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_massively_multiplayer_online_games The term MMORPG was coined by Richard Garriott, the creator of Ultima Online, in 1997.[20]

Side note, does the +special side of that still last the full 120 seconds?

Oh, I know you've been around the block a few times, though XP/MIN is kinda a weird metric to capitalize on, especially when running solo. A good solid team, with all the pros and cons that has, generates more XP/MIN then just about any solo play. Granted, that XP/MIN is across all the players involved so individually you might earn less XP/MIN, but the values are higher.

I mean, its already named Status Effect (Read: Hold, Sleep, Stun, Fear, Immobilize, etc) Protection and Status Effect Resistance (Read: Hold, Sleep, Stun, etc) You can actually already track both of those stats in your Attribute Monitor

To be fair, most straight EBs don't have the purple triangles And even if they do, like when you reduce an AV down to an EB, they can still be immobilized. Yes, that doesn't limit all powers, but ranged attacks usually do less damage then melee ones, and you can easily use your environment to kite or run around corners to heal back up while the mob is immobilized. You don't need to face tank everything out there. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

We already have that actually. Mez Protection is Mez defense, its even Mag based, most mez toggles grant 12 'mags' of protection, ~4 mez powers to break it. Mez Resistance like those granted by AM (Accelerate Metabolism) reduces the duration of the mez. Heck, we all get a form of it in Health, which grants ~50% sleep resistance, so sleeps (one of the big 4 mez's) only last half the duration that they normally would.

Or you pop a break free and move on with life. Mez's really aren't that big of a hurdle to a long-term player who understands mechanics. Even on a squishy.

My main is a bots... No AoE at all until level 32, and even then, its via Full Auto Laser, which is a 6 second animation, or the Uber Rockets of Uber Knockback.

I would also like the see Javelins, especially if the Warriors get Staff Fighting (read Spear Melee...) and standardizing the ranged attacks to be different javelins would make the group seem more coalesced and less hodgepodge. Giving them the Lts the wide cones, and leaving the T9s to the Bosses seems a good thing too, or even just giving them the Divine Avalanche clone across the various powersets, so they can maybe stack some +def, and that power is meant to act as a 'Parry' (its literally called 'Parry' for broad Sword..) anyways, so it makes sense. Staff Fighting even gets one, though it is a cone attack.

Yeah, that's what I meant by untyped. Those are positional defenses, not typed defenses. I guess using Mind Control was a bad example, as that doesn't have a positional component, and is ONLY typed (Psi)

I'd argue that RoP granting resistance when used as a Break Free is actually a MUCH better change, as it allows a squishy to become a 'non-squishy' and ignore the mez for the duration. Thus preventing a faceplant, and giving some freedom to either run away, or stand your ground and actually have a chance to win.

I gotta agree with Bill here. This game has ALSO been solo friendly. Especially when compared to other high end games. Now for the suggestion itself, I like the concept, but it really comes down to the devil in the details. Out of all of the ATs and powerset combinations, how many are directly affected by a lack of mez protection? Blasters -> Access to T1,T2 primary, T1 secondary while mezzed. Brute -> All armors get mez protection, some cover more then others, but they all cover the big 4 (Stun, Sleep, Hold, Immobilize) Controller -> /Elec (Faraday Cage), /Force Field (Dispersion Bubble), /rad (Accelerate Metabolism) though that is only resistance, /sonic (Sonic Dispersion), /traps (Force Field Generator) Corruptor -> Same as Controller Defender -> Same as Controller (though sooner, as its a primary not a secondary) Dominator -> Domination has built in mez protection, perma Dom is possible giving permanent mez protection Mastermind -> Same as Controller (and arguably you could include /thermal, /emp, /poison, and /pain as well as they grant mez protection to the henchmen) Scrapper -> Same as Brute Sentinel -> Same as Brute Stalker -> Same as Brute Tanker -> Same as Brute, except sooner because the armor set is a primary. Warshade and Peacebringer -> Dwarf form has Mez protection built in VEATs -> Resistance to all mez, and I think some magnitude of protection as well. So out of all the ATs, 5 are basically immune to mez (with VEATs being mostly immune, depending on if its resistance or protection), 2 get limited immunity (blasters, and dominators), 4 get access to powers that grant self mez protection, and HEATs get an entire form that is immune to mez. Having a struggle mechanic, that only covers the 'holes' doesn't seem very worthwhile, especially as it would require a very large design challenge.

I thought toxic was itself untyped (like some Mind Control powers) Defense(all) covers it, because defense(all) is basically just a catch-all for any untyped defense you have. At least from my understanding.