MHertz

Every MMO I’ve played has had a population that seeks to find the path of least resistance (or the fastest/easiest path to victory). It never changes. That’s what some people enjoy; that’s their preferred playstyle. I would characterize it as pitting themselves and their native wit against the developers’ carefully constructed systems. Whether this is victory in PVP or fast leveling or gaining quick cash, it’s looking for ways to excel by the terms of the game. And in every MMO I’ve played, this inevitably turns into “the devs are trying to destroy us!” when the terms of the game change. (If this is indeed your mindset — an adversarial us-versus-the-devs 'we must defeat the system' mentality — I am not surprised you take changes personally. But I respectfully submit that that mentality that is your problem.) You see this in nature. When there is a source of food, something comes along to consume it. The population which prefers that excess of food now booms. Then the food source goes away and that population falls away, or moves somewhere else, leaving ripples in the other populations as it goes. Whether you characterize this in a positive light (eg, beautiful hummingbirds coming to your lovely tended garden of wildflowers) or in a negative light (eg, swarms of locusts stripping bare what was once fertile farmland) is all in your own personal perception. I keep saying that some day, someone will release a game that lets all players feel amazingly powerful, and we would be able to empirically determine if such a game would be welcomed and embraced and successful, or whether it would be stale and dull and unchallenging. It would probably not be viewed equally by everyone. Farmers may dislike it because there's no way (or no need) to gain an edge; other players may not like it because it contains no danger. Or it might be wildly successful among all groups. Who knows? Meanwhile, if you’re a farmer, embrace the cyclic nature of your changing ecosystem. If you’re against farming, accept that the boom-bust cycle of advantage-seeking isn’t going anywhere.

Can you put that in context for us? For instance, how does that compare to how many level 50s exist?

Since SG raids are not on the horizon, is it possible to implement a SG base ban? I have noticed that there seem to be occasions where someone shows up and causes trouble, requiring GM intervention, and it might make things easier to let SG leaders control access themselves. A ban (cannot enter) and a boot-ban (kicked out, cannot re-enter) would be great. Such a ban would have to override other permissions, like "team leader grants access" and coalition membership, but probably not override being in the SG itself. Is this feasible?

Please see the above messages where I explain this is not my position. But thank you for pointing out the logical converse of my point.

Your post contains a ton of incorrect assumptions about me, my writing ability, my ability to write content with others, my experience with comics, and so forth. And this is just wrong. This isn't what I said at all. It's totally backwards, as I pointed out above. I didn't ask "why do all people choose characters like X and then play like Y?" I asked "why do players want to play like Y, and sometimes happen to be X?" As you'll note in the OP, some of them are human but they happen to be superior to others. First: yes, I'm biased. I was a PNP GM for 20+ years, playing a multitude of superhero-based campaigns. Power-gaming RP leaves a bad taste in my mouth due to a particular example (let's call him Sheldon) who always had to have the characters in the game who were the Best at Something. The fastest, the wisest, the strongest, the hardest to kill, so he would never be at any disadvantage and would always have the best characters to call upon. And not just the best, the ridiculously over the top extreme champion, so nothing was ever a challenge. I didn't understand it then, and I don't understand it now. Doesn't it get boring when you're always the best at stuff? Yes, those kinds of beings appear in comic books, where the writing and the plotting is controlled so those beings can be as powerful as the story requires them to be. This is a role-playing game where you have to play with other people. There's no writer or GM in charge to moderate those impulses. So I'm asking "why do people choose to play a character that is defined to be more powerful than the other characters?" What do people get out of that? Why do I encounter so many people who RP such characters so poorly?

1. Because very often I try to RP with a person who is playing a dragon, or a fae, or a god-being, it's no surprise that they invented for themselves a bunch of extra magic powers that aren't in the game. This isn't just me making up a bunch of assumptions, this is me asking the question after numerous eye-rolling encounters. There's a pattern here. I'm not claiming it is universal, because I have met numerous nymphs, dragons, god-beings, fae, and so forth, that are good RPers with well-defined characters and who play well with others. Nevertheless, the correlation is pretty persistent. 2. I don't know you, and I don't assume anything about you. 3. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm not saying that "every person who plays a god, demon, angel, or dragon is a power-gamer." I'm saying "why do people want to play power-gamed RP character [which is typically one of the aforementioned beings, but not always, as I point out in my OP]?" Or to simplify: I'm not asking why all X in the game play like Y; I'm asking why people play like Y in the first place [and are usually one of X]?

No, not really. People play what they want to play; I don't have to like it. It comes up because I try to build my base with RP hooks in mind, enough to satisfy people with different backgrounds and hero origins. There's this problem here for magic users and enemies of the Circle of Thorns; there's that problem over there for necromancers and other death spirits. There's another problem for people with natural origin or technology. But then someone inevitably comes along and says, "Hey, I'm a time-bending super alien overlord, and I'm also the god of magic, plus I'm a playboy billionaire, let me just blink my eyes and fix it all. And if you're interested, I have pheromones that make you want to have sex with me." And inevitably the person is a god, a dragon, a super demon from beyond space and time, the guardian of the universe, or whatever. I wanna say "No, dummy, that's not what I'm trying to do — I'm not looking for a solution, I'm looking for engagement in finding a solution." I want to stress that I have met some lovely RPers who have engaged in the story hooks I have put into the base, and, yes, some of them have been such beings. I'm not trying to complain about them, because they were very collaborative in coming up with a solution. But I have met others who are, let's say, a little pushy in wanting to be the be-all end-all solution for all problems (and sometimes a little pouty when I'm not interested in a super-savior).

I have to admit, this is something I do not comprehend. Why do players feel the need to portray characters who are even greater than superheroes? You're already on a path to becoming an Incarnate, one of the most powerful beings known to exist. But your character must be even bigger than that, right out of the gate. A god, a vampire, an unkillable assassin, an angel, a demon, a millennia-old super dragon, a reality-bending alien, a cruel and mysterious fae creature from the dawn of time, or (as some bios would have it) "the fastest person / best psionic / strongest hero / whateverest whatever" in existence. And I ask: why? From a roleplaying perspective, doesn't this make it harder for your character to take an interest in the trivial inconsequential daily lives of citizens in Paragon? Why would your character care about a single purse snatcher, or a pitiful plot by the Freakshow to hold a crime competition? Doesn't this backstory require jumping through some hurdles to explain why your ultra-powerful ancient evil dragon is struggling against level 2 Skulls at the start? Are you trying to create a character with power on your terms, without any weaknesses unless you permit them? Is it because super-beings play for much higher stakes on a heroic scale (savior of the timestream, guardian of the universe) and much lower stakes on the emotional scale (can never be hurt, never touched by mortal loss or trauma)? Or is this an OOC (out-of-character) thing, where you feel inadequate unless your character is somehow better than those of other players? I don't know, I don't get it. Characters with limits and flaws are so, so much more interesting to me, and I have a hard time relating to (and RPing with) characters who fill this "god mode" role. I prefer characters that need help. Characters that cooperate, rather than dominate. So why do you choose a god-mode kind of character? Please explain the appeal. I'm willing to understand, here.

Let’s be honest, though — there’s no reason for high-speed travel powers to exist either. The proliferation of pop-up portals, long-distance teleporters, team teleport powers, shortcuts, consolidation of train lines, and AE missions, we hardly ever have to travel distances at speed like we used to.

How many people? I have only had two toons so far that even earned that much, much less spent that amount on IOs for perma-anything. This idea only acts as an incentive for people who already try to spend a ton to optimize in a specific way.

How many people do you think actually spend money to get all the IO sets for their toons? Won’t making the IO into a valuable damage proc make it more expensive to buy, and less likely for people to buy it? I get why you would want people to do this (for your convenience) but I don’t see how this would change the behavior of enough people to make a difference.

In real life there would be a penalty to accuracy for the superhero cruising in at top speed to take potshots, as well as a penalty to accuracy for anything targeting that hero (excepting AOEs).

Maybe what the Hollows needs is a flood event for the Red River.

I don’t PVP, but it seems like the workable solution to base raids and mayhem missions is to make a specific set of pre-made maps with different objective types — castle raid, capture the flag, king of the hill, or whatever. Maps could take the form of city blocks, bases, office buildings, etc. Yes, it would take some time to build such maps, and they wouldn’t be player-built and fully-customized bases. Still, it would solve the pathing problem for pets and create an interesting space where team PVP could happen. Toss those maps into the arena and you’re good to go.

I think introducing an entire set is an over-engineered solution, and I think specialty procs aren’t a very good model for future content. It’s just more power creep and more drops that won’t sell because nobody cares about anything but the special one. The only point to the remaining pieces is to convert them into the coveted one. If that is the model we’re trying to copy, remember that the 20% Slow resistance in Winter’s Gift is also unique (1 per character), which is not indicated here. It would give some sets (like Electrical Blast) multiple opportunities to slot that proc, and other sets only one (Stamina). While I would be okay on general principals to give Electric sets more built-in End Drain resist, I don’t think the IO here is the way to go. Finally, End Drain barely works at all, after a decade of being totally useless. I’m not excited about saying Electric’s reason for existing should be taken away by some Level 1 with some pocket money to spend.

It doesn’t seem like that set would ever be used to its fullest — people would just spend 20 million on the “resist End Drain” enhancement and slot it into Stamina. Maybe they’d throw an extra slot into Stamina so they could still have an End Mod. Seems like a pretty low-investment solution to mitigate 20% of one whole debuff effect starting at level 1. I don’t think there’s any equivalent solution for mitigating, say, Hold or Def Debuff — aren’t most of those like “reduce Hold by 3% if you have four IOs from this set”? You’d probably be better off petitioning for a Resist End Drain to be added a little at a time to a dozen different existing IO sets.

The problem isn't you. The problem is — and forgive me for saying this, because playing styles differ from person to person — I don't think those people who rush ahead are very good team players. They may be very good at playing their character. They might have an outstanding build. They might have spent a lot of money on IO sets. They might have dozens of level 50s and know every Task Force by heart. But that particular playstyle is often the cause (in my opinion) when there are team wipeouts. The Brute (or Tanker or Scrapper or whoever) is two mobs ahead, racing forward to use their big alpha strike on a bunch of puny minions. The Controllers and Blasters are left behind to mop up the more durable enemies, like COT Death Mages or War Wolves, which take a lot longer. Now the team is split up. The Defender can't keep the Tanker buffed in the other room and still keep the squishies safe; there's nobody to hold aggro in the back because the "best" players way out in front don't even pay attention to anyone else's health bar. The Stalker is suddenly getting pounded because he doesn't realize he's no longer got those tasty team buffs. People have to keep checking the map to see where the team's supposed to be. And some teams allow this to happen because some people are terrible leaders. Don't get me wrong. This is my perspective. I generally like it when the team is safe and there are no hiccups. But there are moments when the game is truly exhilarating because a couple of people almost get defeated. Maybe two or three do and have to be rezzed, and the ambushes are coming thick and fast, and you have to use every power in your arsenal (including Brawl) because you got nothin' else. That's fun. Some people like to play like that all the time. Because there's danger. That's just not me, at least not all of the time. And those players might find my preferred playstyle boring, where everything runs smoothly and people are generally not in grave danger every moment and the Blaster isn't racing to accumulate debt badges. My solution to this: I run my own groups. I usually don't try to run with someone else's team. If I run into somebody who's awful at running a team, who insults players or their builds, or who insists on a team full of solo artists, I put them on ignore. When I run my own team, I keep people informed about my decisions and I emphasize team play. "Can the Scrapper please take point? Both of our Brutes are lowbies and they don't have full armor yet." "I'm turning this next mission down because it's Carnival of Shadows." "Defender, my heals aren't very good, so if you can handle the team, I'll watch your back." "Controllers, if I see a Quantum in the crowd, I'll call it out, and you can target through me." It usually works. Nevertheless, there are still times when the team is rolling so well, you only get to use a handful of your powers. Sometimes on my ice/cold corruptor, I only have the chance to use Ice Storm, Sleet, Blizzard, Snowstorm, my shield powers, and a couple of blasts before the spawn is defeated and we're on to the next. That's fine. I'm like you; I want to see what all the powers do. I hate the idea of playing City of the Same Four Power Pools (Boxing, Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, Assault, Tactics, Hasten, blah blah blah). That's boring as hell to me. Why bother playing alts at all, if you're going to make them functionally the same? But you can look at this scenario as an opportunity. If you're only using certain powers when you're on teams like that, make a second build for those team situations. Take the very best powers you'll always want, and skip some others. Fill up on power pools. Make yourself a beast so you can keep up. And use your first build to see what powers you like, when you're on teams that allow for a more varied experience.

I guess we disagree on what the word "new" means in this context. For me, I take it to mean "recently arrived for the first time." I highly, highly doubt that this game — a feeble population on a rogue server for a dead game with no visible marketing strategy — is attracting floods of "new" players by that definition. It seems to me that you're using the word "new" to mean "unfamiliar with the elements of the game outside of PLing." And that I will freely concede could indeed be true, because the game has (as I've said) made it easier to progress in levels without progressing in game experience. A person could well be here for many months, quickly (or slowly) building up an army of level 50 door-sitters, because it is easy to progress in that fashion. That player might even think they're doing it the "right way," or they might feel proud to have found this loophole. I wouldn't know. In any case, I'm not seeing the connection between the alleged problem ("new" players) and the solution (make changes to AE XP). It might plug one leak, but it wouldn't stop PLing; and even if it did, it would not, on its own, serve to educate players. If I wanted to help prevent players from making it through the game in an uninformed state, I would introduce gate missions at certain levels. These would be required on at least one character in order to gain any XP past that level. Once the sequence is completed, the player would earn a global badge and would not have to do those missions on future alts. I don't have an exact list off the top of my head, but it'd be something like this: before advancing past level 5 (blueside), you must: complete any one contact mission in Atlas Park before advancing past level 10, you must: level up at least once from either Blue Steel (in Kings Row) or Foreshadow (in the Hollows) before advancing past level 15, you must: level up at least once with Valkyrie (Steel Canyon) or Mynx (Skyway City), who makes you do a zone-wide patrol that forces you to visit all 5 origin-based shops And so on. This might be a minor inconvenience for AFK PLing, but it wouldn't stop players from doing it in whatever manner they chose. It would barely be a speed bump, since it would only be required on your first toon. However, it might be enough to make sure that the player has at least once seen some of the contacts in some of the zones in the game.

Double post.

Can tell what? See, that’s the part I have trouble with. Can you tell some character got PLed? Yes, I agree, there are definitely combinations of badges that a character probably ought to have earned to some degree. If they have dealt no damage and taken no damage by level 50, sure, I agree that person was probably a door sitter or a PL baby. Can you tell that the player is new? No. The lack of badges doesn’t say anything about whether the player is new, uninformed, clueless, etc. Can you tell that the player got their XP in AE? No, not necessarily in all cases. They’ll definitely have the architect pages for playing a game, but that’s not the only way to PL to 50. One could door-sit for radio missions in PI, for instance. I refuse to agree that a lack of badges and accolades alone is proof that the character was PLed and that the player is new, without further evidence. This mythical newbie who somehow installs the game, stumbles into the LFG channel, happens to ask for PL, and accidentally falls into a Pocket D fire farm for 50 straight levels and then walks directly into your Posi 1 Task Force … yeah, gonna need proof of that. I find it unlikely. The game has made it easier than ever for people to camp XP in one spot for 50 levels — the AE building, radio missions, instant city-wide sidekick, free base teleporters to all zones, monsters that con the same to all levels — so it isn’t just an AE problem. Whatever solution is put forth will have to address more than just this one aspect of the game. Not for nothing, but people used to know how to use their travel powers because they used to have to travel.

I've been working on a lot of base stuff recently and this is my wouldn't-it-be-nice wish list. Snow and ice themed items. Snow-covered trees, snowy ground, snow-covered rocks, icicles, etc. Police and prison themed items. Wall of prison bars, prison bench, barred window, security guard NPCs, prisoner NPCs, etc. Military base items. We can put in lots of vehicles, but it'd be nice to have bunk beds, crates of military supplies, canvas tents, Quonset huts, etc. Tropical themed items. More large leafy plants that aren't in planters, more palm trees, and a surface of sand for beaches and dunes. Forest themed items. Taller conifers, blackberry brambles, dirt floors, forest floors, fallen branches, fallen trees, ant hills, animal dens, and so on. Underwater themed items. Sharks, rays, coral reefs, shipwrecks, seaweed, volcanic vents, filtered light effects.

I know, there's probably a ton of threads on this already, but I was thinking about this the other day and I wanted to put this idea out there. The three problems with Illusion Control as I see it: It relies too much on Phantom Army as a be-all, end-all power It has redundant stealth powers (Self + Group) It tries to be too many things: Psi, Energy, Confuse, Fear, Hold, Sleep Also, I'm sure many of us would like to see Illusion Control compatible with the Mastermind AT. Here's my proposal: Level 1. Spectral Wounds. High Spectral Damage (Psionic) Level 1. Summon Decoys. Ranged, Minor Spectral Damage (Psionic) Level 2. Blinding Illusion. Ranged, Moderate Spectral Damage (Psionic) + Foe (Special) + Foe Perception debuff Level 6. Enveloping Illusion. Ranged AOE, Minor Spectral Damage (Psionic) + Foe (Special) + Foe Perception debuff Level 8. Superior Invisibility. Self Stealth + Defense (All) Level 12. Summon Spectral Visions. Ranged, Foe (Special) Level 18. Illusion Mastery. Change secondary damage/effects (in the manner of Dual Pistols) to Fear, Confuse, or Immobilize. Level 26. Summon Phantasm. Ranged, Moderate Damage (Psionic), Minor Damage (Energy), Foe (Special) Level 32. Infiltration. PBAOE, Stealth, Defense (all) + Foe (Special) The set now reads like a Mastermind set, minus the training powers. The number of minions and lieutenants can follow the mastermind leveling scale, and not be indestructible pets; they can tank a lot of damage simply by being re-summonable. In place of giving the Illusion Controller training powers to increase damage and defense for all her illusions, she has the option (with Illusion Mastery) to toggle between various secondary effects. The default is Immobilize; but the controller can change the secondary effect in certain powers to Fear, Confuse or Stun. This also changes which kind of effect is thrown by the Spectral Vision (no longer just Spectral Terror) and Phantasm. The Tier 32 power would be similar to Grant Invisibility, but it would also proc the special secondary effect (Immob, Fear, Confuse, or Stun), turning it into an escape power or an alpha strike, rather than just a stealth power. In my dream world, the animation of this power would make everyone on your team take on the illusionary form of some enemy.

Illusion control could use something, but this isn’t it. The Confuse should be Mass Confuse, and maybe cause the bad guys to look like copies of your team. The Invisibility should come with an optional pop-up Mass Invisibility button. There could be an Immobilize that does single target damage, drawing on a random Immobilize animation from other sets. The pet summon can scale up in the number and type of pets as you level — first one decoy, then two, then two Decoys and a Spectral Fear, etc. Or maybe we stop trying to shoehorn so many different effects into the set and give Illusion Control a way to choose damage type and secondary effect (spectral wounds, confuse, or fear) like Dual Pistols and Staff get. But “needs to rely more on Phantom Army being an indestructible I Win Button” is probably not a good design direction.

Double post.

Double post.