[What makes it good?]

2 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

Looking at his 16 year old art, I think he had a progressive vision problem.

 

Generally speaking, people that don't have much artistic ability tend to be wowed by realism. It's pretty common for people with a high degree of artistic ability to be bored by it.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Trike said:

The busiest server has PvP ghost towns. Which is what I saw back on Live, too, when only a couple people would be doing PvP. Has anyone used the arenas since the first few months after they were added? What a total waste of effort. We could’ve had missions on the moon, or in a desert, or undersea. Instead, they catered to a fringe faction for god-knows-why (NCSoft diktat?) who abandoned it, but only after dragging the community down.

 

I'm not saying this to be insulting, it's just the most accurate term I have to use: this assessment is incredibly ignorant. Like someone who never ran a TF saying they sucked and were a bad idea.

 

When the arena was added, there were so many people queued that it took me a couple days of trying before I could get into a match. There was regular activity in the arenas for quite a while, including server battles and leagues and tournaments. When the zones were added later there was a renewed interest as well.

 

The problem with pvp was a combination of bad decisions and neglect. Castle's reworking of the pvp system was extremely unpopular and made it more difficult for pvers to get into pvp. Add to that the fact that there was little in the way of subsequent updates for pvp AND the fact that the arena was actually non functional for a couple of issues (leading to a patch stating something along the lines of "arena is working again" as new pvp content). 

 

Despite all of this, there is still a pvp community. I think they recently ran a season, and there is another event coming up.

 

Edit: also forgot about base raids. They half assed that as well then dropped it completely.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

2 hours ago, Ignatz the Insane said:

At this point in the game, unless you're a new player, you should be aware how trivially easy it is to accumulate Influence.  Sure farming, be even easier is simple marketing.  There are a bunch of stories/anecdotes like: I played an Archery/Tactical Arrow character to the low 30s and easily and casually made 1 billion Influence in a week of playing.. Two on my Saturday.  It's not hard nor terribly time consuming.   Yea, I get it, it's not for everyone.  But I have little sympathy for those that simply refuse to take advantage of such an easy path to financial independence.

 

That's fine. You do you. 

My issue is this:

 

You have three general ways of earning income: running content, farming, and playing the market. Players in the game are doing at least one of these things and most are doing a combination. Farming has been nerfed more than once and the gist of the rationale seems to be that these devs don't want players to feel that they have to farm in order to keep up. Okay, but if that's the idea why is it then alright to assume that everyone will be playing the market in order to keep up (and if they don't, fuck them)? I can't roll a level 30 farmer and make billions over the course of a week. I can't also run normal content with a lvl 30 and make billions over the course of a week. So doesn't that indicate some sort of imbalance with respect to how rewarding this activity is? 

 

Based on their statements, I think the devs are not viewing these three approaches as wealth acquiring strategies. They seem to be viewing them as earning (farming, content, etc.) and redistribution/destruction (market). And because the market is regarded differently, it's absolutely fine that people can trivially acquire large sums of money through marketing. But then what happened to the initial complaint against farming--that players would feel they needed to do this. Playing the market to generate wealth is akin to using steroids in sports. If it becomes the case that most players are using them, players who don't will be at a severe disadvantage. A lot of players not only seem to acknowledge this, but strongly embrace it as well.

 

"I got no sympathy for you man, just take the drugs."

 

 

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

4 hours ago, MoonSheep said:

 

edited for clarity:

 

i think you have a very genuine point - city of heroes and MMORPGs aren't for everyone and that’s okay

 

as i mentioned in the notorious AE thread, mmorpgs are largely about the journey, progression and investment. people seeking an insta win or pick-up-and-play games may find that games designed for that playstyle better fit their desired outcomes 

 

like you say, that’s not saying people should leave the game, if people enjoy how they play then that’s all that matters.

 

however, individuals who are edge cases or play in a niche way (for an mmorpg) may want to recognise that over time, the game will have design priorities which may not shine a light on their particular style - however they are still very welcome here

 

LOL. This is like an SNL skit.

 

"Bob, I know you've been living here for close to 20 years. But this is a certain kind of town, with a certain kind of people. Maybe it's just not right for your heathen ways, and that's okay! 

There's lot's of other places that might fit with your sinful lifestyle. But if you do decide to stay, you are perfectly welcome in our cult."

 

Word to the wise in general:

 

If people start defining what the game is--they are forwarding an agenda. 

If people start suggesting that maybe leaving is a better option than expressing your opinions here--they are high on something. And no, they are not hanging out with Bill smoking the good stuff and living their best life.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

So, I understand that you don't appreciate the market/farming methods to get what you want out of the game. I also, I think, grasp that you do it when you need to, in order to get what you need. 

I've no issue with options. But how would you go about resolving this issue you have? Make everything free? like on Brainstorm, the test server? 

As I stated earlier, I'm not looking for some change in the structure of the game. The changes they made in this update are fucking irritating, but I'll still play the same way. It will just take more grinding or something to achieve the same result. It won't affect serious farmers or people that make a lot of money on the market or those who run a lot of TFs on a regular basis. The changes affect people like me--casual players who solo a lot, farm sometimes, and run certain trials or tfs occasionally. I'm drawing attention to my perspective because I don't want it to get any worse, that's it. 

 

 

 

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

I started playing before issue 2 dropped, so if you know what it was like playing then, you shouldn't be complaining.

 

This is pure boomer logic. When I was a child there were no cell phones. Therefore, you shouldn't complain about your wifi connection. It's that level of reasoning.

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

Don't stress so much about being uber.

I don't stress about being uber. And I have a pretty good understanding of how I like to play the game, given the time I have available. That doesn't involve lowbie teaming.

 

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

sure. Of course not.

It's not. And that isn't an expectation I would have in leveling an alt.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

if this game isn’t your speed, maybe it isn’t for you.  I’m not telling you that, I’m just mentioning an option.  There’s no shame in that.  You don’t have to take my advice.  It’s good advice, but if you’d rather shake the cage and try to get the HC team to make your life easier, up to you son.

I think if people have any common sense they don't try to direct others away from playing the game. It's not a good look for the forums. YMMV.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

This has been The Council of Thirteen's MO since they started releasing updates.

I don't know what the council of thirteen is, but it sounds like they need Bilbo.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, UltraAlt said:

 

If you don't enjoy doing it, don't do it.

If it makes the CoH unplayable, then you should have been been here before the market was part of the game.

 

I think it would be better worth your time to find a game that you enjoy playing than spending time complaining here.

I have the feeling that you are complaining because you really enjoy playing the game, but that brings me to a question ... do you AE doorsit to 50?

 

I was playing before the market was a thing. Which makes this notion of the market as the essential thing pretty stupid.

 

I think if you are at all invested in the game, it's worth giving negative feedback if things go south. And I think in a way it becomes more important when people in the community start pointing to the door rather than actually listening or acknowledging dissent. 

 

Usually when I make a new character, I run around Atlas for a few levels killing things. I might do a couple DFBs. Then I'll Pl it in stages. Get some levels. Then do missions for a level or two. PL again. Do more missions. Kind of depends on the character. Don't generally PL straight from 1-50. Not sure what this is relevant to anyway.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

2 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

This is a Super Hero game. Not a farm simulator. Can we all just admit that the primary purpose behind this game is to be a Super Hero and fight bad guys?

 

Now, that being said, I am glad that there are other things to do in CoH other than just beat up bad guys 24/7. But since farming is still the fastest and easiest way to make money in this game it's hard to take any complaints about the devs making farming difficult seriously.

 

Cmon, I think you know better than this. 

 

I agree with you. It is a superhero game. My goal in playing it is to play a super hero or super villain. The problem, as anyone who is paying attention knows, is that this game is almost 20 years old. The content I enjoy playing is 50+. I, like many people, don't want to have to slog through that leveling process for the umpteenth time just to get to do the trials and whatever content I actually want to do. 

 

Fortunately, I can farm a character to 50 in a few hours. But despite what some idiot told me last month, I did not make around 1 billion inf during that process. I made around 100 million. So there's still some work I have to do just to get my new character enhanced. I have to farm more, or run a bunch of content on other characters or start some money making scheme on the market. All of this other activity just as preparation for the character I actually want to play. Which will then need to do accolades, incarnates, etc. 

 

I'm not asking the devs to change that. I'm not complaining about it in order to get it easier. Just don't make it fucking worse. Especially when all these people are crawling out of the woodwork crowing about how easy it is to make money on the market. And then telling you to look for another game if you don't want to take their advice.

 

 

[What makes it good?]

1 hour ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

most artist never see an appreciation in their lifetimes, only to have their works be considered that of genius, once an "art scholar" decides to turn a profit with it by exploiting the name.

 

If someone is not appreciated while they are alive, how does someone else come along later and exploit their name? What value in the name is there to exploit?

 

Art in general reflects the cultural currents of the day. Modern art is such a strong break from previous traditions because there were major shifts in our understanding and experience of reality during the modern period. The discovery of the subconscious, radical scientific theories (evolution, relativity, etc.), world wars, technological developments etc. all spurred divergent styles of representation in the visual arts. Usually when someone is discovered or rediscovered, it means that the current trends have shifted in a way that makes their work relevant again to other artists and collectors. J.C. Leyendecker for example was very popular in the early part of the 20th century and then gradually faded from prominence. Lately, I'd say he's having a resurgence because contemporary fantasy artists love him. 

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Maybe YOU should realize that if you choose not to take the easy path, that the community or the developers are under no obligation to show up on their knees at your doorstep giving you whatever you want for whatever it is you are willing to put into it, which is apparently nothing.

 

All I want from YOU and the people like you is to stfu with notion that "the easy path" is the solution to every problem. I don't want your money and I've paid for everything I've got, just like anyone else. The fact that I don't want to rely on the market doesn't mean I'm willing to put nothing into it. It just means that I still have a vision where this game isn't about the market. You like to do that, knock yourself out Ritchie Rich. But as long as we can still voice opinions, I'm not the only one around that never found that aspect of gameplay appealing and wants to keep it as optional as possible--not something that people are expected to do to any large degree.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 

 

It sounds like both of you might want to find a new game?  You both argue that you don't want things to be trivial nor that you are entitled to everything.  But it is actually trivial to make items trivial to achieve and you can get everything with almost no effort in this game.  That's my opinion, and yours certainly may differ.  Maybe I'm playing by a different set of rules?

 

 

But see, honestly, that's complete bullshit. I recognize that you can get rich with very little difficulty in this game. But it takes effort. Not strenuous "I'm digging a ditch" effort. Tedious, time wasting effort. Sorting items. Converting things. The types of activities that are the worst aspects imo of the user interface. Exactly the sort of crap that I play a game to avoid doing. 

 

So find a new game? Sure. But maybe instead of just writing off players like me, maybe the community and the developers should realize that some people have strayed from what this game was actually about and have bought into this "inf tycoon" market mentality.

[What makes it good?]

1 hour ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

Then you agree with me. I acknowledged there is an apreciation of its time and place, but yet you can still think its junk!

 

Eh...I wouldn't put it that way. Personally I don't like Picasso's art that much. I wouldn't want one hanging in my house. But I understand why it's significant and worth a lot of money.

I wouldn't call it junk. There's also a lot of art that is from highly respected, accomplished painters like Da Vinci. That's not my cup of tea either. And likewise I wouldn't call it junk just because it doesn't appeal to me.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Well, that is between the player and the game.  I'm sure you have many things in real life you want but cannot afford.  I know I do.  I seriously hope you aren't thinking of quitting that game.

 

Lol right so is the game supposed to be an escape from the rat race, or a replication of it? I don't feel entitled to everything the game has to offer. I also don't mind putting in an effort to get things that I really want. But there comes a point where the tedium of grinding resources, converting them or selling them on a market in order to get something else--ultimately to get some trinket--kind of breaks the spell. Why am I wasting so much real time in order to do this? In a game I bought to make superheroes.

[What makes it good?]

1 hour ago, Mr. Apocalypse said:

But going back to "beauty is in the eye of the beholder"  Sufficient art education, can only make you appreciate the effort or timeliness of the art, but Cant force you to appreciate the style.  Arts value to one vs another is purely subjective and no amount of education can or ever will change that.  Snobbery alone sets the value of art in the gallery scene, so there is that. My 10 year old daughter actually makes better looking impressionist art than Picasso, but yet no one is lining up to buy her works.

 

I think it's lot more complicated than that. If it's just purely subjective then you would never be able to say, for example, that Mozart is better than Nickelback. Or that Norman Rockwell is a better painter than your 10 year old. A lot of the value in art is, in addition to it's formal characteristics, whatever statement it's making within the cultural and historical period in which it was produced. This understanding may not make you personally like something, but it should explain why something is valued when other things aren't.

[What makes it good?]

4 hours ago, Marshal_General said:

I look at a Picasso and all I see is art that you would hang on your fridge done by your 5 year old.

 

If that's all you see, then you probably don't have an education in art history sufficient to understand why his modern art was valued (Picasso was accomplished at traditional realism as well, he simply chose not to do it). If I give a random teenager with no background in English literature one of Shakespeare's plays, they'll most likely think it's bad as well if they can even make it through the archaic language.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Number Six said:

That would be a good point if this were a single player game or if there was no player economy and the only source of items was NPC vendors. However, there is an economy, and at it's heart it's a competitive economy. Even despite all the various things that have been done to act as price controls, supply boosters, and release valves (salvage seeding, recipe bucketing, merit vendors, etc), if there's only 100 Shiny McThingBobs in existence and everybody wants a Shiny McThingBob, then guess what -- the 100 people with the most Inf are going to get their Shiny McThingBobs first.

 

Not only is there an economy, but the economy is apparently the ultimate consideration for balance in the game. So if there is something that people want, but can't easily afford, the solution is to rein in farming or nerf merit conversions, etc. Which doesn't make any sense because the fatcats with the most money are making that largess on the market. 

 

1 hour ago, Number Six said:

The end result of that is that people who don't want to farm feel pressured into thinking they have to at least set up an AFK farm because that's the only way they can possibly get enough Inf to get the Shiny McThingBobs. They have to compete with people who do farm and make more Inf faster than they do. That in turn adds more Inf to the economy and perpetuates the cycle. Your farming does affect everyone else.

 

The casual players who aren't particularly interested in running tfs or playing the market are increasingly pressured into running content they don't like or becoming more effective at farming. Or caving and starting to sell converters or whatever it is that people do to trivially make large sums of cash in this game. It's not that my or anyone else's farming affects everyone else. It's that the devs apparently want to keep the marketeers happy and use that as a yardstick in figuring out what they want to permit other people to do. 

 

[What makes it good?]

It's largely subjective but I think a good thing to keep in mind is legibility. Whatever character aspects that costume is communicating should be easy to read. For example, I think that for most iconic superheroes (Batman, Superman, etc.) you would be able to recognize the character just from their silhouette. Add as many design elements as necessary to clearly communicate that design, while keeping those elements as simple and bold overall.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Ukase said:

I'm aware of the origin of Blapper. I maintain that it's not properly used. What do you call a blaster that attacks in melee - a blaster. There's no need to make the distinction. 
Heck, I remember someone on the live forums that wanted to make a "tankmage", as if that were actually a thing. You're either a tank, or you're not a tank. No such thing. 

I can't understand some folks wanting to create a new label when the label we already have defines it perfectly. 

 

The labels reflect trends at the time. Blasters, at least the ones I knew, were squishy as hell in the early days of the game. My first character was a dm/inv scrapper when that combo was really strong. It wasn't uncommon for blasters to recruit me for a team so that they could blast away and die less. It was not common for blasters to stay in melee for long, hence the origin of the term blapper. 

 

"Tankmage" was a generic term for a character that can deal tons of damage and be unkillable. Had nothing to do with playing a tank in coh.

[Prismatic Aether and locked costume items]

Hey blue anime kid--

 

If we gotta grind our asses off or spend all our life savings on costume, why can't they be somethin useful?

like Hobo or gynecologist. No blobs for me.

[Comics Class lectures]

Many years ago on live, I got involved in drawing superhero art because of the fanart community in this game. One of the artists I met online is now doing a series of themed lectures on youtube. Personally, I think he does an awesome job of breaking down the complexity of anatomy in order to show what you really need to have for an expressive, believable character. Anyway, check it out if you like drawing characters:

 

https://www.youtube.com/c/BrandonPalas

[No More Empyrean Merits to Reward Merits]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

*THEN*, yeah, your use for Empyreans will be limited now. But your playstyle is so rare/niche now that it’s hardly relevant IMHO.

 

There are people on these forums that are toxic and have no tact when it comes to using them. As a player, it's not my job to look at other people's habits and judge them for being "relevant". Relevant to what? What a stupid comment.
 

The game's strength is giving people options and catering to a wide variety of playstyles. The removal of the merit conversion does not make emps useless. But it takes away a valued convenience. So you can still use them--for things you don't want, in ways that are more of a hassle then what you currently do. And in exchange for adapting you get--what? The approval of some twat that thinks you're now more relevant?

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

And your opinion on the topic is irrelevant to me. Balance should be achieved for balance's sake. Otherwise, it's City of Tanks as it is now.

 

Yeah you've got a weird obsession and it overrides any concern for how other people are enjoying the game. 

 

You don't have to care about my opinion. I don't give a shit about yours. I don't care if it is City of Tanks. It doesn't matter if that is true or not because I don't play tanks. The game doesn't make or require me to play tanks. Other people having fun playing tanks doesn't bother me. I don't look over my shoulder and get pissed that some other build or AT is doing better than mine--to the extent that I start clamoring for it to be nerfed. The balance you want doesn't exist and has never existed. And if it did, it would simply mean everything sucked equally.

 

And goddamn, a few pointless irritating nerfs got through and it's like chum in the water. Nerf incarnates, nerf EM, nerf the ability to switch between red and blue side. Meanwhile, if you go to the suggestion forum and asked for a minor buff the power creep brigade would crucify you, lol.

[Sins of the Devs are visited upon the players]

1 hour ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

People's happiness is irrelevant to numerical balance. In other words... fuck 'em.

 

You've said this before and I can never really tell if you're actually serious. 

This is a video game. It's entertainment. The objective is to make people happy, not to pursue some OCD fixation with numerical balance. Balancing these ATs numerically is akin to the generic dumbing down of the entire system. They should be evaluated in terms of usefulness and function, not balancing raw numbers.