Jacke

I just checked in the character creator. Psychic Blast's Psionic Lance has range 175ft for both Defenders and Blasters. But the Defender has 5 ranged single-target powers with 100ft range. And Psychic Tornado AoE with 100ft as well. True for both i26 and i27p1. But only Energy Manipulation has access to Boost Range, so it's only some Blasters. And I think it's bad to justify other Blasters to have a lesser range because of a powerset they don't have. (Though the ranges of Blaster powers has to decided knowing that that Boost Range exists and could be applied.) And I thought the Defender's advantage was all their many and stronger buffs. I think range is more of a factor for AoEs, especially cones. And because of tight maps, it can be rare that any toon can fight at max range. With all the good PBAoEs, most need to be able to find a way to work at or just outside of melee range. I think once over about 40ft, it's more the range difference affect play as an irritant. AoEs can be worse. Just look at Dark Blast's cone, different max ranges and cone angles. More range is more security, but only marginally. And all depend on good tactical employment of the teammembers. I wonder if range seems to be such an important and unimportant factor is because we adjust other things. At shorter ranges, either go up against fewer mobs at a time, have a Tanker hold the aggro, or be a tough build that can take it. I think range is a factor that goes beyond Blaster secondaries and even primaries. It would need to be addressed over time to find what could likely be adjusted in a new release without making an unintended mistake. And once you tinker with the ranges, what about the rest of the power features? Still, I think a start would be to say "Why should this single-target ranged attack differ from 80ft max range."

Psy attacks on a Blaster only have the snipe with a range over 80ft. On a Defender, many are 100ft. Even Mesmerize on a Controller is 100ft. Why the range differences? Do 2 differences of 20ft each (60 - 80 - 100) make that much of a difference? Should they be different ranges?

Well said. Although I keep coming back,, I have the feeling since RC1 dropped, it's more tracking down bugs than any other changes. Though I really hope my suggestion to rename "Shadow Slip" to "Shadow Fold" is accepted. To have a greater influence, need to be involved earlier in the process. Even before things start rolling on a new release to test. I've got a few things I want to see in i27p2. But the impact of these. I really think the TA range nerfs are just too far. Because increasing some or all of the powers up to 80ft would only give marginal improvements but a lot of QoL. But there's a lot of range difference issues all around. I like playing Defenders. But why do Defender get better ranges than Blasters on so many powers? But all that furball is something that has to hashed out over a while. But it's likely to happen, as range expansions up to 80ft have happened in the past.

That last sentence was a joke. I bring it up because as far as I can remember, my toon always turns about half-way to the right and teleports a tiny bit. So it's actually a jump to the right. 🙂

It's a mathematical problem I've vaguely aware of. Given a 3D space filled with collision surface (buildings, ground, edge of the zone, ie. the map you're on). And a point in that 3D space (where your toon is in that space). You position the mouse on the screen after starting the teleport power. That position is converted into a direction away from the toon's point in space. That direction is project onto the 3D space from the point to the first collision surface in that direction is detected as Point-S. That one is actually tough to do in the general case, but is very common in 3D games. More likely assumptions have been made to simplify the problem. This could be the source of error. It may also be done by a library that is just a black box used by the server code. Along that direction, the maximum range of the teleport is determined as Point-R. As you move the mouse, the last 4 steps are done again; move and the last 5; change map and all bets are off. Which ever is close, Point-R or Point-S, when you click, the toon's position is change to the closer point. At the same time, all the graphic and audio niceties are being done along with everything else. And somehow, rarely, what is calculated as the close of Point-R or Point-S is calculated as right at the toon itself. Or goes wrong and how the glitch is handled is as if teleporting to right beside The reticle jumps in. If teleported, just do a jump to the left....

I can't remember when I first encountered it, but I do remember it's been around a long time. @Wavicle opened a beta bug report on it. Both of us give more detail of what we observed, as well as speculating on what's the factors that affect it happening. It is a bug of long standing and unless there's a eureka moment from one of the devs, I don't expect it to be solved soon.

I get it hovering (thanks to Mystic Flight) in the open air, with the first collision surface under my mouse-click well beyond the range of the teleport. I can't remember for sure if I'd had it when there's nothing in the way before the edge of the map. I'd not thought of geometry beyond the range of the teleport. I'll pay more attention to what's in the line of teleport. May try to fit in some testing to see if I can see the actual reticle jump back while I move my mouse. Considering what I read somewhere about how /interact find the object to interact with, by searching forward on the horizontal, then close but a bit up, etc., I think the teleport powers do the same thing but fixed along the line of sight through where the mouse is. The code has to calculate what that means in the game's 3D-space for the destination. Perhaps the calculation of that location spits out either right at or near the character. Or an illegal value that gets clamped by sanity code to right at the character.

Looking at i27p1 RC1, Darkness Manipulation has also had a range nerf. Current ranges are 60ft on the immobilize Penumbral Grasp, 70ft on the AoE stun Dark Pit, and 80ft on the fear Touch of the Beyond, with TotB not being affected by range enhancements.

I've encountered a similar issue on i26 using the teleport feature of Mystic Flight. I'm not running with Boost Range or any range enhancement in Mystic Flight. I use a click bind in my bind file: LSHIFT+LBUTTON "powexecname Translocation$$powexecname Teleport$$powexecname Shadow Step$$powexecname Nictus Shadow Step" As I'm teleporting click after click, sometimes it's as if a click triggers a new teleport but didn't get that it was to a new distance spot but to a location very near to where I'm currently hovering. My character faces to the side, and teleports, but barely moves. I think @Wavicle is seeing in greater detail the same as what happens to me because he's using Boost Range and range enhancement, and also I think teleporting one step at a time without a click bind. He sees that the teleport reticle is not at range but right beside his toon. Because of the increased range of teleportation, it may even happen more often. @Wavicle can also see that the problem seems to be related to the geometry. It must also involve how the destination spot in 3D-space is determined upon activating the teleport power. Someone all this is causing the code to think the maximum distance that can be teleported in that direction at this time is near zero.

@Captain Powerhouse adjusted that statement 2 days afterwards. But right after that, he said: I'd say it was a mistake that was a good idea. Tactical Arrow has no melee ranged powers and would be appropriate to be longer ranged to provide a second Blaster Secondary besides Mental Manipulation with powers ranged to 80ft. And it avoids at least a few changes that seem to provide no improvement to City of Heroes while creating a lot of grief for players. But I and others have made that argument in this topic before. It appears to be not considered sufficient at this time to reverse the range nerfs.

The strong statements are all focused on the range nerfs to ENA and Ice Arrow. There's very little discussion of the other nerfs to TA. In fact, many are saying they'd take more nerfs to TA to have 80ft range on ENA especially as well as Ice Arrow. So it is just about the nerfs to the ranges to ENA and Ice Arrow. Please justify the range nerfs of ENA and Ice Arrow from 80ft on i26 to 60ft on i27p1. And only the range nerfs of those two powers.

Tactical Arrow is the Blaster Secondary equivalent of Titan Weapons ?!? More exactly, Tactical Arrow's powers' ranges are the equivalent of Titan Weapons' overstrong performace under i26 Momentum ?!? Tactical Arrow is overpowered only because Electrified Net Arrow and Ice Arrow have a range of 80ft ?!? Please support this position without saying the nerfed powerset is still playable because a powerset can be heavily nerfed and still playable, example Regeneration. Or that a complete attack chain can be made without the Secondary's powers, because that's true of almost every reasonable build on all ATs, even with heavily nerfed powersets.

Just figured out I posted that Warshade teleport powers icons bug report in the wrong subforum. So I reported the post asking for the topic to be moved to the correct subforum. I'd also want to amplify my suggestion the new Warshade power "Shadow Slip" be renamed to "Shadow Fold". The power is the Warshade equivalent of the Teleport Pool power "Fold Space". The changed name connects the two similar powers. I think such a name will help comprehension of the many new teleport powers in i27p1.

I get something like that on i26 and before using the teleport feature of Mystic Flight too. I use a click bind for it in my bind file: LSHIFT+LBUTTON "powexecname Translocation$$powexecname Teleport$$powexecname Shadow Step$$powexecname Nictus Shadow Step" As I'm teleporting click after click, sometimes it's as if a click triggers a new teleport but didn't get that it was to a new distance spot but to the location of the last click, which is where I'm currently hovering. My character faces to the side, and teleports, but barely moves.

Really trivial point: the icon for Teleport Target is new. These are the old Recall Friend icons. But this did lead to me creating two toons on Beta to check out the actual icons. And thus a bug report and a suggestion. EDIT: Well, I post that bug report in the wrong subforum. Just reported it asking for the post to be moved. I do think the name Shadow Fold is a better one for the Warshade equivalent of Fold Space, rather that the current Shadow Slip.

I just created a couple of Brainstorm toons to check the icons for the new Teleport Pool and the teleport power icons for Warshades. I discovered some typos reported here. As well, I'd like to suggest a name change for Shadow Slip to Shadow Fold. Shadow Step is the inherent Umbral Aura equivalent of Teleport. Starless Step is the Umbral Blast equivalent of Combat Teleport. Shadow Recall is the Umbral Aura equivalent of Teleport Target. Shadow Slip is the Umbral Aura equivalent of Fold Space. Though Shadow Step and Starless Step are very similar to one another, both names indicate the Warshade is moving. Once the icons are fixed, I think they'll be told apart quite well. Shadow Recall is close to the old name of one of the components of Teleport Target, Recall Friend, and indicates the Warshade is bring someone from afar to near. I think Shadow Fold improves the connection to the Teleport pool power, Fold Space, in a way that Shadow Slip doesn't. As both Fold Space and its Warshade equivalent are new powers and similar, I think Shadow Fold will help connect the two and improve the general understand of two new powers in a very big update.

I just created a couple of Brainstorm toons to check the icons for the new Teleport Pool and the teleport power icons for Warshades. Warshade's icons have typos. Shadow Step, the inherent Warshade equivalent of Teleport, doesn't have a purple-backgrounded Teleport icon. It has the icon symbol for Combat Teleport. Shadow Recall, the Umbral Aura equivalent of Teleport Target, doesn't have a purple-background Teleport Target icon. It has the icon symbol for regular non-combat Teleport.

The routes on the maps also don't show the current connection between the PTA Red Yellow and Green Lines. I understand the lines on the map as their traditional older separate routes. But you do have a good point there, the Yellow Line should have had a routing change. I like that the map has been updated and shows us where all these zones are. Though I think the PTA Red Line and Outbreak got overlooked. On the other hand, I think the Red Line, which went through Outbreak, got completely destroyed in the initial Rikti attack. Nothing like fixing things to have the lore aligned in retrospect. 🙂

I can't remember, what's the effect if you attack at range or melee a mob in a similar out-of-sight situation? (Out-of-sight of the caster? The mob's friends?) I think in all cases, the other mobs are alerted, which means they have their special power of knowing roughly where the player is and then pursue and attack. If Teleport Target acts the same, then that makes sense. As to having an interrupt time and its size, that needs testing, perhaps even beyond what can be done on beta. As I have several toons with Recall Friend, I'll be sure to see how Teleport Target works when this goes to release.

How do you think it is on Homecoming, both with i26 and now i27? I've yet to recreate my pre-2012 Peacebringer and Warshade on Homecoming. But as far as I could determine, Peacebringers still tend to a tanky toon more suited to a human build. While Warshades are better at a tri-form synergy (like the famous MF'in Warshade build). Though they both could do well with other builds too. Wasn't sure about the relative strengths.

Very sympathetic with this. I'm currently in the middle of redoing a project just because I didn't keep a good set of change notes the first time. Which is one of the many reasons to test. To make sure the patch notes match the actual changes.

Here I'm with @Vanden. i26p5 has ToB with accuracy 1.5, which is very rare. i27p1 still has it at 1.2, which is quite good. But as @Troo points out, it should be in the patch notes. And Dark Mastery should have a 35ft stealth power on a toggle. A Dark/Dark Blaster should have 35ft stealth in either the primary or secondary, same as all the other Dark/Dark toons (except Dark/Dark Dominators, but that's a harder change and out-of-scope for i27p1). Death Shroud could have that 35ft stealth added. And like the new Dynamo, when under stealth, the damage from the aura can be suppressed.

No, it doesn't warrant being called "Gymnastics". But if you're wanting next time to rip up the floor to get it right, don't think it's a good idea to fix the baseboards quite yet.

The name isn't quite right, calling it Gymnastics. Could ask for the name to be changed ("Archer's Determination" say). That might be able to be included. BUT if you want in a later change the power to include jumping etc., especially if also justifying changing power stacking, then you may want to leave the name at Gymnastics, as ill suited as that is now.

@Jimmy, @Number Six, help me out here. For various reasons, including serious reasons--Issue 27 Page 1 is now on RC and will soon release. Blaster Secondaries Revamp is going into i27p1 as considering the work done to get it here, just to kick it to i27p2 would be wrong. Tactical Arrow changes in i27p1 won't be further revised, limited, or not included for similar reasons. Anything wrong with the Tactical Arrow changes--like the damn ranges--or the rest of i27p1, can be tolerated. Further changes to Tactical Arrow--or better yet, a pass over many power ranges--are better addressed in the future aiming at i27p2. I don't like a number of those choices, particularly #3, but I understand why they are the way they are. You can look at a number of my posts in this topic. I don't like the ranges in Tactical Arrow. I want a number of other things too, some of them even more than fixing Tactical Arrow. But I also realise there are times when it's best to find a different way, a better way to achieve the goals you desire. Don't like the way Tactical Arrow ended up? After i27p1 is released, test it thoroughly, make notes. Post about it as a start to respectful pushback. Get connected into the process for i27p2. Work to include a revision to Tactical Arrow there. Convince others they should consider it and include it. It's what I'm planning to do to include what I'd like to see in i27p2.