[AE Vet Levels -or- Empyrean to Reward Merits]

Forgot to add, my personal preference would be to remove Vet Levels from AE if we can keep the EMP to Reward Merit conversion.  If that is not possible, then I would prefer some sort of cooldown on converting EMP merits to Reward Merits. 

 

As nice as most people are here, I simply do not want to be forced into teaming for reward merits and being able to convert EMP merits was a nice way to pick up recipes when inf was in short supply or to complete IO sets. 

 

It would be very nice to get that dev digest where the thought process behind this decision could be shared. 

[AE Vet Levels -or- Empyrean to Reward Merits]

4 minutes ago, Faultline said:

If they were visible you could at least check that most of them are from accounts that have a post history, avatar, and various established opinions. Without that information it could just be 60 freshly created accounts. No results from polls with hidden voters will be considered valid by me when it comes to implementing a change, and I wish I knew how to see if the votes are public or not before looking at the results.

 

Again, not accusing anyone in specific however different accounts having an avatar and a post history is not solid evidence of unique individuals either.  You can easily have one person using multiple accounts to post support or dissenting opinion to ideas to make it look like there is a lot of interest in a given point of view.

[AE Vet Levels -or- Empyrean to Reward Merits]

13 minutes ago, Faultline said:

Click on the vote total and that tells you exactly what accounts voted for which option.

 

Ok but how many people have several accounts?  Not accusing anyone specifically, just pointing out what should be fairly obvious.  Online poll results are very easily skewed.

[AE Vet Levels -or- Empyrean to Reward Merits]

21 hours ago, Troo said:

We've read the threads and there are lots of opinions. So, let's get some votes going to see which way things are leaning.

 

Polls on here are easily skewed by people using alt accounts.  This does not really tell anyone anything other than what a handful of people want. 

[AE Vet Levels -or- Empyrean to Reward Merits]

2 minutes ago, Spectral said:

then at least allow us to buy purple/AT/winter IO with empyreans, not just reward merits...

 

I am not sure that would work.  You will get people here saying that farmers will just flip those on the market and earn billions, which is somehow going to miraculously destabilize the economy.

[Weaksauce]

55 minutes ago, ZacKing said:

Wasn't "there is no private server" over on the Titan forums a conspiracy theory for a few years? 

 

Zardoz does make a fair point here.  Trust is very important.  Given the history of lying to the community for years about the existence of the server, it does make anything they say suspect. 

[Players that are sitters every single time]

I honestly have no idea why this bothers people so much.  Just ignore them and go and do your own thing.  Chances are very likely those people do not want to team with you and you do not want them on your team, so leaving them alone is the best option.  Everyone wins.

[Focused Feedback: Reward Merits]

20 minutes ago, Krimson said:

How many players are actually doing this? I mean, I do see some farmers who seem to do nothing but farm with their alts, and I wonder what the motivation is. But it's usually just a few players and their alts. Certainly figuring out all their accounts could be an issue with code, but someone with a pair of eyes armed with /getglobalname could figure it out in the AE building itself. 

 

My guess would be less than a handful, if that.  The better question is, who cares?  Let them farm trillions of influence and billions of reward merits if they want.  The tools used to detect gold farmers should be a help here and anyone abusing the rule should get a permanent ban.  Ultimately, you simply are not going to be able to stop anyone from farming like that short of turning off the game.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

2 hours ago, Excraft said:

Where's the proof/evidence/explanation that AFK farming is a huge issue and converting EMP merits to reward merits is causing a market problem?  Where's the proof that there's a character naming problem and the name release policy needs to be put into place?  These are things we're told to accept as fact but we're not given any substantial evidence or data to even know there's a problem.  All that's been posted here is hypothetical stories and anecdote and the white knight brigade jumping all over anyone who disagrees or offers up a different suggestion.

 

Excellent questions.  I believe we were told that we would be receiving a digest to explain why some of these changes were necessary.  So far, just crickets.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

It is laughably comical how certain things like the inner circle claim requires proof, yet stating that AE farming is driving away new players is taken as absolute fact and requires no proof at all.  Something seems out of balance there. 

[Focused Feedback: Reward Merits]

1 hour ago, Dazl said:

I remember back to the last big change they made in AE and the whole game when they removed the disabling of experience for more influence. I understood doing that inside AE but it should not have been nerfed outside of AE. The big argument for those who supported it was “We have to reduce the amount of influence generated because it will cause inflation”. If it was so bad back then, why isn’t it even more of an issue now if you can do the same thing on steroids?

It's not the “Farming” it’s the “AFK” that is the issue.

 

For a commercial game where there is a financial incentive to keep accounts active and keeping people paying longer, it makes sense to be concerned about the market and inflation.  Homecoming is not a commercial game and there has not been inflation here or ludicrous prices for things on the market like we saw when the game was live when it had a much larger population.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

27 minutes ago, biostem said:

I would like to make an alternate proposal - create an official chat channel, (let's call it "AE") - if you're looking to recruit or join in on *any* content in Architect Entertainment, you MUST use this channel, (you'd need to have a grace period and several clear notices/warnings to this extent), then people who want nothing to do with it can simply turn off the channel and never be bothered again.  Anyone using the regular LFG or other channels for AE stuff can be kindly reminded to use the correct channel, then be given warnings and/or harsher measures can be taken, for repeated or intentional violations... 

 

As good a suggestion as this is, it will not satisfy the select few on the inner circle who will not rest until farming and/or AE are removed from the game.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

5 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Are there any insta-50s or super farming servers out there?  How popular are they?  I know most or all are smaller than HC, but I really don't follow the others.

 

Yes.  New Dawn (Cake) lets you build one free 50 with everything unlocked (badges, incarnates etc) plus 2 billion inf per account, basically just like Brainstorm but it is an NPC contact in Atlas.  Hardly anyone there taking advantage of it, which again disproves the whole "people want everything for no effort" excuse.  Other servers also have vastly superior costume editors and have added signature power sets for players.  They each have some very cool stuff in their own right. 

 

Hate to say it but the more Homecoming does to drive off players, the more attractive those other servers become.

[Curupira?]

2 hours ago, The_Warpact said:

Strange that this thread is by Heraclea, is he added to list as well?

 

I had asked about that months ago.  Never received any kind of answer either way.

 

 

[Giving back to the City of Heroes community]

If I win the billion, I will be purchasing the rights from NCSoft.  Then it will be mine. 😁

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

58 minutes ago, Krimson said:

The idea isn't to actually permanently divide the player base, since that might require new accounts and the like. I'd just like to see how many players who are against farming and AE would actually embrace a Shard without it, because I don't think the anti-farm crowd is the Legion they want you to think they are. 

 

All you need to do is look to the literal ghost towns that the other servers are to see that.  There is no AE leveling to speak of, no P2W vendors, no seeded markets.  It is the traditional, slow levelers paradise and yet there is hardly anyone there.  New Dawn lets you create one level 50 with all the bells and whistles and 2 billion inf for free per account and the server is still a ghost town.  I think that telling. 

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

4 hours ago, Troo said:

Oh I was just pointing you to a discussion that proposed saving some of the PL time.

 

People can already create however many fully decked out level 50s as they want on Brainstorm and hardly anyone uses it.  Just my own personal perspective, I think most have found the happy medium they are after with creating characters and leveling them through AE.  They are enjoying what they are doing and feeling like they accomplished something versus using a token to instantly level up.

[Focused Feedback: Reward Merits]

2 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:

Both have some merit.  Just for the sake of argument, say that the devs made ITF critters worth twice as much XP/Inf per kill for a standard run, 3X for 1 star, 4X for 2 star, 5x for 3 star, and 10X for 4 star.  What do you think will happen? 

 

My conjecture is that AE farmers and PLers would farm and PL less in AE and more in ITF with a team.

 

This is subjective to the individual.  Some may jump and run more team content.  Others who enjoy soloing are going to continue what they are doing.  It is important to remember there are people who play the game primarily solo for a variety of reasons.

 

Based on your XP/Inf supposition, I do not see many running the 4 star difficulty due to the extra time investment.  Most likely you can run the lower difficulty levels twice as fast, if not faster and thereby negate the increased XP/Inf. 

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

1 minute ago, Bionic_Flea said:

I think we need targeted Nerfs.

 

Devs: Please nerf ShardWarrior!  Thank you.

 

If I say I am a Regen scrapper does that mean I get a nerf pass?

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

35 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

Not everyone has the luxury of arranging their life to accommodate uninterrupted gaming time.

And, of course, by their very nature 'emergencies' are unpredictable and can not be scheduled.

I'm not saying this applies to most players, but it irrefutably applies to some.

 

I have to agree, if you are being pulled away from the game often enough by real life emergencies, then perhaps it is time to log out and deal with the important stuff.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

11 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

A speed run of say ITF compared to a kill all nets the same reward merits at the end, but all of those skipped mobs is XP and inf left on the table. 

 

Not everyone is interested in XP and inf and just do speed runs for the merit rewards and special enhancement drops.  In those instances, this is definitely imbalanced.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

33 minutes ago, Troo said:

Good point, maybe make a suggestion. (though I don't think they are as extreme as you're making it out compared to the issue at hand)

I think some tweaks, not nerfs, may be in the same release. Not eliminating speed runs, but increasing some of the risk, and at least making them a bit more dicey.

 

I think it is a fair point to bring up speed runs.  People are literally getting full TF rewards for runs taking a handful of minutes with almost zero risk.  That upsets the whole reward over time paradigm as well.  It also destroys any sense of story and lore associated with the TF itself for new players. 

 

37 minutes ago, Troo said:

Aren't there diminishing returns in repeating TFs?

 

There are diminishing returns for running the same TF over and over.  We frequently will do ITF/LRSF/MLTF speed runs and complete them all within a few minutes for full rewards.   There is documented proof of the various speed runs in threads on the individual server forums here.  The regular Hami runs are over within minutes as well. 

 

Outliers and edge cases exists for just about all content in the game.  If we are going to address AE, edge cases in the non-AE content should be addressed as well in my opinion.  Fair is fair.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

48 minutes ago, Parabola said:

I'm surprised you didn't mention RP. Yes, of course, some in game activities aren't directly comparable. Farming and regular play though are. In both you are engaging in the core gameplay loop, you are taking on challenge and defeating mobs for rewards. And I think there is balance to be pursued in that. So yes, I do mean it thanks.

 

Using this as a measure does not work.  Non AE content can be sped through with little effort and still earn the same rewards for far less effort and little to no risk.  If you want to use that as your measure, every bit of content in this game would need to be nerfed to the point that everything rewards the same amount. 

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

1 minute ago, skoryy said:

You're not even arguing the idea.  You're reacting as if I was about to flush your cocaine stash down the toilet.

 

Again, that's not a me problem.

 

Actually, it is a you problem.  You are basing any suggestions you have on false evidence. 

 

I have to agree, anecdotal evidence is not proof and any ideas put forth as "solutions" to problems that may not even exist because the "evidence" for them are suspect, it makes it a solution looking for a problem and filled with biases.  Personally, I would love to see any hard data the Homecoming folk has on this issue.  I am not sure how they can verify any new account is a player absolutely new to the game, nor do I believe they have any data as to the specific reason why people may have left.

 

This whole thing about AE farms driving off new players boils down to a select few people who do not like AE or farming trying to pass off anecdotal stories as fact and screaming for change.

[The Pretty Good AE Debate]

7 hours ago, Astralock said:

You are right, and wrong.  Veteran loss is due to what you said.  AE farming is, however, one reason for new player loss.

 

I know a lot of people have it in their head that Homecoming hardly gets any new players.  They are, of course, wrong.  A new player signs up on Homecoming.  He or she sees that Excelsior is the most populated shard, so he or she creates a new character.  The new player’s character loads into Atlas Park.  What does he or she see?

 

Loads of people begging for farms in the LFG channel constantly, and occasionally in zone Broadcast.  He or she will see AE farmers tell people in the LFG channel not to join a Citadel TF that was just advertised, because TFs are “crap XP” compared to AE farming.  He or she will see AE farmers tell others in the Help or General channel that only AE farming is worth doing, because it is the fastest way to both get to level 50 and get your Incarnate abilities.  Then that newbie may get a blind invite from an AE farmer, thinking that PLing the newbie is a favor.

 

The newbie, not knowing any better, joins, gets PLed to level 30+, and then leaves.  He or she has no knowledge of the game, does not know how to get to another zone, doesn’t know how to get a new mission, and has no INF to buy enhancements because the AE farmer told the newbie to get double XP boosters.

 

The new player has just been taught that Mission Architect is the entire game.  More than likely, he or she will log off and never return.

 

Everything I just described has happened quite a few times that I personally know of, with some variation.

 

There’s been a lot of “What harm does AE farming do?  I am not harming anyone,” in the thread.  There’s your harm.  AE farming has overall a negative impact on the health and longevity of the Homecoming community as at least some new players are driven off.

 

This looks like a job for Bullshit Man!