ShardWarrior
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Posts posted by ShardWarrior
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27 minutes ago, America's Angel said:
Had you quoted the line in my post that followed this one - you'd have your answer!
Oh I already know your answer. 🙂 Apologies, my post was more a general question/statement and not directed at you personally. Sorry if that was confusing. Seems to me that taking extreme edge cases into consideration for balancing rewards is only ever going in one direction.
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17 minutes ago, America's Angel said:
When looking at rewards, I tend to judge them via optimal play. Obviously players are free to farm/play inefficiently, but that doesn't mean much from a rewards-balancing standpoint.
So we can start nerfing all the rewards in TF/SF/iTrial content to balance them out? Speed runners are getting rewards for optimal play in far less time than the non-optimal players. Only seems fair to balance these out.
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6 minutes ago, Astralock said:
There were people who refused to use the base macro despite its use being prevalent through the Homecoming community back in 2019 and 2020, because they realized that it was an exploit. Same thing here.
Also, comparing marketers to farmers is like comparing apples to oranges. Marketers use and manipulate INF and inventory stock. Farmers create INF and inventory stock. That's a huge difference between the two.
Rewards from AE farming is much better than rewards from other content, not "marginally better." as America's Angel has shown. You're also not taking into account those multiboxing AE farms. Multiboxing regular content can be done, but it's quite a bit more difficult and can't be as easily automated as multiboxing AE farms. Unfortunately, multiboxing AE farms can be easily automated. Also, FWIW, turning XP off doesn't earn more influence anymore... that changed two years ago.
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2 minutes ago, America's Angel said:
Using the attached builds on Brainstorm on either map #23785 (active) or #23786 (AFK).
And these are builds and maps everyone uses? Or are other players using different builds and maps? Seems to me these are finely tuned builds that not everyone will want or use.
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5 hours ago, America's Angel said:
Saw a bunch of inaccurate numbers posted. Here's the current reward numbers per account as far as I'm aware:
Active Farming = 2.5 million inf/minute
AFK Farming (Live) = 0.56 million inf/minute
AFK Farming (Beta) = 0.84 million inf/minute
Tinpex = 1.0 million inf/minuteNot sure about marketers. Think they're anything from 5-15 million inf/minute. But it's been a while since I messed with any of that.
Inaccurate how and defined by whom using what criteria? It seems to me that quite clearly not everyone posting their results here are hitting these mysterious figures.
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On 8/4/2022 at 7:57 PM, Dazl said:
There are plenty of merits to be had, if you want them go earn them.
Earning the EMP merits from Vet levels by doing "right/correct/approved" content and converting them is earning them, same as running TFs over and over.
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4 minutes ago, TygerDarkstorm said:
It's nice to see I'm not the only one who feels this way. I keep super disappointed to keep seeing the asks for minimal armor effects for things like stalkers and Stone Armor and the like. The whole reason for picking something like Stone Armor is to turn into a giant rock. If it bothers you that much to not see your costume, then use a different armor set--almost everything else leaves your costume visible. Or learn to plan your character's look for when they're using those armors, or turn the toggles off when you aren't in combat, etc. Sorry, some of these requests make me crazy, lol. I don't get it.
You are absolutely right that people should enjoy their costume and character design. The problem is that we get buried under layer upon layer of VFX from other players being used or cast onto them, many of which obscure the view of other players completely. Unless I am misunderstanding the request, the ask is for a minimal or no VFX option for abilities that are cast onto others.
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21 hours ago, DougGraves said:
I liked the first one, so I'll probably check it out.
Same. Predator 2 was meh, although it did expand the story a bit at the end where you learned the Predators had been visiting Earth for quite some time. The AVP films were awful. Predators was pretty decent, although as great an actor as he is, I could not see Adrien Brody as an action hero. I did not see the The Predator because it got such terrible reviews and from the clips I have seen, it does look like a stinker.
Prey here is getting good reviews and it looked like an interesting idea. I will wait for it to show up on Vudu or something since I do not have Hulu.
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2 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:
data will certainly be helpful yes
do you feel it’s likely there will be similar AFK rewards observed outside of AE?
i see from @Ukase’s insightful post that he’s able to earn around 64m per hour afk - i’d be very surprised if this level of reward is being achieved outside of AE. you seem to be quite confident it is - can you provide examples?
So now we are arbitrarily moving goal posts by adding the criteria of AFK farming?
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3 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:
Should I complain of the thumbs down you gave me for suggesting it? Nah, not enough to bother with.
You can complain about whatever you like. 😉
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5 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:
I propose we just lock it and place a moratorium on any kind of discussion thread about AE Farming instead. They all end up in the graveyard anyway because everybody has too strong of feelings about it.
I do not think the thread should be closed. Prune it of any noise and personal insults, but I do think that it should be allowed to remain open. Especially since there are people posting actual data and information. I think that is a good thing. More data means more information and more understanding of what the situation really is, regardless of what side of the fence the data lands on.
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5 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:
If you're suggesting that AE farmers are not that bright because they just picked a place to farm at random with no clue how good the rewards are, that seems kind of rude.
I am not sure that is what was being suggested. I could be mistaken, but I believe the comment was that there was never any real data presented that AE was producing the best rewards of any other content in the game. To my knowledge, there never has been any data like that posted even back on live.
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16 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:
Did you manage to note just influence without accounting for drops? As noted, drops can be very random. Except for SBB, ASF, RSF, and MLTF where you can get a guaranteed Overwhelming Force or HO/D-Sync. But even those vary greatly among them depending on the specific drop.
Nope. Influence gained is influence gained whether it is from defeating NPCs or from selling drops. Unless you want to start making certain exceptions and conditions now? That is fine if you want to do that, it just seems like trying to skew results one way or the other in order to be more in line with the "AE is the best source of everything!" claim.
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Ran a fire farm and a series of Council PI Radios on two separate characters this morning for an hour each. I have earning XP disabled on both and sold all salvage and recipe drops after finishing.
Skimpy Impy - Spines/Fire Brute (T3 in all Incarnates)
OSHA Academy Fire Farm - Arc ID 4880 set to +4 x 8
Earned a total of 35,955,232 influence = 599,254 influence per minute
The Incredible Mulk - SS/WP Brute (T3 in all Incarnates)
PI Radio Missions (3 in total, Council only) set to +4 x 8
Earned a total of 35,687,448 influence = 594,791 influence per minute
I did get better drops on the PI radio missions - a LoTG Def/End recipe drop and a rare salvage.
I have not had a chance to run a series of back to back SBB runs yet. I will post the results when I am able to.
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42 minutes ago, ZacKing said:
The requests for TF/WST/DFB/SBB/SF/missions in LFG far outnumber the requests for farms by a vast majority so people are running non-AE content all the time for all kinds of stuff, so I know the "one stop shop" excuse is just bullshit.
I see the same thing on Excelsior and Torchbearer. This patch is a solution looking for a problem.
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8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:
So what we're left with is AE is the best source of XP/hr. And to that I'm left asking, "So what?"
Good question.
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1 hour ago, Bionic_Flea said:
Don't let my work dictate yours. As long as you are consistent in your methodology and properly record and reveal your tests they can be benchmarks unto themselves . . . oh but wait, that would just be one data point, like polling one person . . . never mind, carry on. FOR SCIENCE!!
This is why I am asking what the criteria is for testing. This allows anyone to repeat the same tests and provide more data to review. No one seems to want to answer the questions. The claim is that AE is a one stop shop for everything. It is the best place for rewards compared to any other part of the game. That may very well be true. All I am asking is using what criteria? What rewards are being measured? What ATs using what kind of builds are used for testing? Which AE farm map? What non-AE content? There are a lot of factors to take into consideration. I am sorry if I am not going to take the singular tests you ran as gospel. I can run all kinds of tests that will produce different results more in line with non-AE content being far superior for rewards. This is why I am suggesting there needs to be set criteria so results can be reproduced.
For my individual tests, I am using my fire farmer running the meteor map and my scrappers and brutes running radio missions in PI. I will also use my blaster running through a series of back to back SBB runs and selling the IO set from there on the exchange. I guess we are measuring influence gained only as the measure since that seems to be the only thing you were concerned with? If not, let me know.
22 minutes ago, Ghost said:In all seriousness, Im confused now. Are you saying running through a fire farm for a set time period (say 30 minutes) will yield the same xp/infl as running through missions for the same time period (30 minutes)?
Are XP and/or influence the only rewards being measured? There are multiple types of rewards in the game.
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6 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:
you have no idea that you are taking part in a discussion about AE and the need to provide data?
Well no, I have no idea where you derived anything about players leaving or staying or prices of IOs in the market from the post of mine you quoted. I am happy to help provide some data. What are we measuring and what is the criteria for the measurement? Can I run my fire farmer through a farm run and then run my EMP defender solo through some +4x8 Carnie Radios? That should produce the same results I think.
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8 hours ago, Bionic_Flea said:
Feel free to add your own numbers. I heard you like to test and be helpful.
P.S. I've added numbers for an ITF and will continue to add stuff as I go along.
Sure. I will be happy to help and embarrass you again. Are we only testing influence gained per hour? Or are other rewards acceptable to test since the claim seems to be that AE is the single best source for all rewards in the game?
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1 minute ago, MoonSheep said:
think everyone is still waiting for you to show us the data mate
can you also provide stats on what percentage of the playerbase would leave if AE was removed and what price IOs would be? without evidence these are baseless claims and merely unproven hypothetical situations
No idea where you are getting any of this from to be honest nor how you derived any of that from my post you quoted.
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1 minute ago, ForeverLaxx said:
My last post on this subject: I haven't skipped or ignored anything. Claiming I have doesn't make it true, just as pretending the goal posts aren't being shifted in order to continue running a narrative about "the data" doesn't mean I'm not aware that that's what is going on. Repeat yourself all you like; it doesn't particularly matter. No data will be sufficient until its data you personally agree with and I've been noticing that for a very long time with specific people I'm not going to name here.
Repeatedly claiming one persons test is representative of the whole player base does not make anything true either. Of course one test is not going to sway any opinions, nor should it. Absolutely you have ignored the questions, that much is evident. Asking for proper criteria so results can be measured properly with as little sample bias as possible is not shifting the goal posts either.
Yes, people are asking for data, so help define what data needs to be measured and how. It is much more difficult to refute evidence when you know the criteria used to gather it and results are repeatable.
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2 minutes ago, ForeverLaxx said:
Or, in other words, you can craft whatever data you want to sell the point you're trying to make.
Well no, that is not at all what I said nor what I suggested. Here is what I did say -
8 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:XP and influence are not the only rewards in the game. Testing criteria needs to be determined so results can be analyzed properly and measured as equally as possible.
I am specifically stating that criteria has to be defined so anyone testing knows what is being measured.
You completely ignored the question of what rewards are going to be measured as there are many rewards in the game? Is it just strictly XP and inf? Or merits? Is selling any drops taken into consideration? What types of missions are being used to test? Are speed runs and/or AFK farming acceptable to use cases? Is testing limited to only certain ATs, power sets and enemy NPC types as some are much easier than others?
There are a lot of questions to be answered beforehand and testing criteria established. This is how you avoid bias in the results which you are already blaming everyone of.
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7 hours ago, ForeverLaxx said:
Problem is, no one seems interested in running these tests that they demand be made, and the one time someone did run one, it's immediately ignored because it's just "one sample size."
The fact of the matter is, everyone here has already made up their mind. Any data that's provided which doesn't jive with their established opinion is going to be discarded. Even if everyone on the forum ran a test and it roughly matched Flea's quick-and-dirty attempt, would you still be satisfied? I mean, people that use the forum are such a small group compared to the rest of the playerbase, after all. Frankly, if you or anyone else is so concerned about data, maybe run some trials on your own and come to your own conclusions instead of hoping that someone else's efforts will match your conclusions.
Sorry, but I disagree that one test is representative of the entire results. Taking one set of results and saying that is absolute proof of anything is specious. I did not say it should be ignored, rather it is just a solitary result. This would be akin to a team speed running an ITF in under eight minutes and saying that is how long it takes for every team to complete it. We know it is not the case as median averages are used. I am certainly open to seeing if there really is such a huge disparity between reward gains AE and non-AE content. If it is true, I have no issue admitting it. However, I am skeptical of the claim that AE is the best source of all rewards in the game as there are many different rewards.
Sure, I can run tests of my own. I am already fairly certain what the results would be though as results are highly dependent on what rewards are to be measured. XP and influence are not the only rewards in the game. Testing criteria needs to be determined so results can be analyzed properly and measured as equally as possible.
For example, it is far faster to speed run a LRSF/MLTF for SHOs than to farm in AE for the inf to buy them, at least it is for me. It takes far less time to run through SBB to get the Overwhelming Force IO drop. Speed running TFs can yield much faster merit rewards as well, especially speed running the WSTs.
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35 minutes ago, MoonSheep said:
well, wait no more
This is only one person providing results under specific circumstances running a small content sampling, so it is not necessarily indicative of the real results. This is like polling one person on politics and saying their solitary opinion represents everyone in the country. A much larger data set would be needed here to be of any real analytical value. I am not saying what has been presented is fake or bad data, it is simply too small a sampling.
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The Pretty Good AE Debate
in General Discussion
Posted
Rebirth and New Dawn both work just fine without the background updates made by the team here. Both have some very cool changes and additions in their own right. Rebirth has a vastly superior costume editor for one thing. New Dawn opening up signature NPC power sets and even Freeform ATs is a lot of fun. Truly a shame that the various people developing are so fractured.