Infinitum

Power crash has the best damage scalar on stalker. When you need an aoe it's a fine go-to. But for EM the thrill is in the ST - and there are other ways to get aoe if you need it. For that pylon test it's ST all the way.

I'm not seeing anything there my stalkers can't do and none of mine are Rad. And again it is very good, but if you leverage the stalker ATOs correctly there no way a scrapper can reach that same potential.

If you are building the stalker correctly and utilizing the Stalker ATO to it's fullest potential there is no way a Scrapper can pull in as many double energy focused ETs combined with the AS on the stalker it's a monster no comparable Scrapper can compete with. It's all but a guarantee to have consistent Energy focused ETs almost every other attack with the proper build and attack chain. Thats not saying the scrapper isn't good because it is.. It's just not as good as the stalker.

Energ Aura, Shield, and SR aren't gimped. - You mentioned energy. Energy is better on the Stalker than scrapper. Plus there are a few others I have already mentioned.

But it should be hittable and sustainable.

I don't rest. It's victory or death. And death is rare. lol. My only problem with fury is how you can't hit and hold 100%. That's a problem honestly. Generating it is a non issue though.

Truth. It made it a lot better.

It's good on all 4 actually, I think it's best on the stalker - just IMO though.

Brute Energy Punch, bone Smasher, total focus, and energy transfer is a bad day for most groups. I never use Barrage on anything unless I have a free spot or have to. I the brute aoe is still good enough and stronger than a tanker aoe and will kill the trash just not as many as the tanker will at one time.

I think you are unnecessarily carrying this to the extreme there - that just is not nor ever will be the case. I am currently leveling 2 brutes that I have a tanker counterpart. That I am having more fun on the brute - because they do more in your face damage up front and there's also an excitement from playing on the edge of victory or defeat and biting off more than you can chew occasionally - and still winning. I like the brute better in those cases.

That's crazy. And shows their ignorance. There are a few classes of stalkers that outdo their scrapper counterpart by a fairly large margin - because their ATOs are much more suited to how stalkers function. Energy melee for instance is sick on a stalker. Combine that with Shield and you have an aoe stalker that's just rude. Electric Melee is another.

That's what we need to find out. Outside of giga proc'd builds what does a tanker do - what does the equivalently built brute do. Once you get the trash out of the way and ST becomes the majority of your targets left the brute will pull away from most tankers even having slightly less sturdy defenses. I think one of the problems is people have drank the aoe juice on every AT to where the fact ST is a thing is lost - and to another point controls, sleeps, holds etc. I get it too why waste time on a ST attack at 800 damage when you can use a proc bombed attack from one of the pools for 500. Damage is king but maybe it shouldn't be. But again that isn't inherantly a tanker issue.

I think to be objective we need something other than Trapdoor results and builds loaded with procs because even thougb they are available and there doesn't make it the fault of the current ATs status to take full advantage of them. I had run 1:1 tanker/brute tests a few years ago in the Brutal Mission Simulator @Galaxy Brain built for that purpose, but I would say those results are outdated now. The tests would need to be run in 3 categories 1:1 tanker / brute built to similar mitigation values. 1 - basic Crafted IOs to get a baseline. 2 - straight line IO set design - no proc bombs or 2 3 or 4 proc sets. This will give you an idea peak performance based on inherant AT abilities and modifiers. 3 - max proc builds This will illustrate where the problem is and whether or not the issue is how tankers were buffed or how the buffs interact with proc abuse. Not that I blame anyone for playing the game with any available avenue.

Invul will work with anything. Having said that - I don't know much about Stone Melee. I have heard it's great though. You could take any one of the invul builds in my thread above this one and swap the secondary out for stone and adapt it to your own designs and still have a very durable build.

Anytime. Glad you like it!

To be fair that was not the intent of their post. Read their posts afterwards clarifying their point. It makes more sense then.

Hard to distinguish the current state without considering procs because they work so well with the current state of tankers. I personally don't build to proc out attacks - that's why I'm not 100% convinced this is a tanker problem. In my tests similarly built brutes still out do similarly built tankers - but that's without procd out attacks and epic pools for additional aoe attacks.

That could work but you will still have procs working better for tankers with that scenario.

I would even give then equal target caps. So long as the overall damage modifier isn't changed. Like I said boss fights are not as annoying as they could be in the past and that's what I would like to avoid going back to. Tankers are always going to be more durable than brutes. They are supposed to be.

It almost has to be that, combustion hits a looot of trash and hurts them to boot. Once clear switch to the more deadly ST and aoe attacks. Probably is what we are looking at there.

I think the differential for the Tanker can be found in the combination of the increased aoe target cap and proc abuse. Furthermore to that point - without proc abuse even that would be a non issue because the increased targets are mainly trash mob minion and lieutenants that pose no threat to a well built tanker or brute - the tanker just currently clears them faster because they hit more of them concurrently. For the bosses and EBs the brute is going to surpass the tanker 1:1 just about every time and not have too many issues doing it. Throw giga procs in - it skews the result in favor of the tanker. So the most timely solution would be to roll down the tanker aoe caps slightly - because boss fights do not need to become the slog they could potentially end up being before the tanker buff. Im not sure Brutes need a buff outside of updated useful ATOs.

I wonder if the fire melee difference is due to combustion only being on tankers.

Yep energy absorption will carry it through when needed. Later on Ageless Radial also for +end and a little more ddr.

Brutes and Stalkers coming soon. Scrappers shortly behind those. I also have awesome Controller builds - but it will be a while before I can get to those to see if power re-order and optimization is necessary and then respec and test out before posting. They have a lot more moving parts than the melee - so I am putting those off to last. lol Then after that - I have been toying around with Blasters - but not like you would think. I have a DP/Nin that is Deadpool channeled as close to perfect as the game would allow - and the kicker - it plays more like a stalker than a blaster. Crits, extra damage from stealth, placate, and a confuse. Start out in the middle of a group - Hail of Bullets. Placate - jump out start blasting at range or confuse then jump back in and use the katana. It is very dynamic and fun to play - every mob is a risk you have to be on your toes to mitigate. At around level 34 currently - but still going strong. After that I am going to work on a Neo clone DP/MC blaster that was inspired by the Deadpool Clone. This time around, I am not posting anything that hasn't been field tested to 50 in the OP of this thread. That is why I have removed some that were just theory Crafted builds that weren't in regular use. Everything there will now be stamped and approved for fun, theming, teaming, and durability. I would still be more than happy to theory craft any build on a request basis - so please keep those coming and I will do my best.

Try this out - It is as close to the Absolute build that I could get - I improved a few areas but had to let others slip slightly but I don't think the tradeoff will matter. Let me know what you think. Tanker (Ice Armor - Fire Melee).mbd