[Sorcery Pool Updates in Issue 27, Page 2]

3 minutes ago, Killobot5000 said:

Okay, I just wanted to say I love most of the changes but there's one thing I pretty much hate about it.

Spirt Ward's new gong sound effect. Repeats way too much and is way too loud. 

Suuuuuuuuuuuuper annoying. Has gotten to the point where I tell people straight up to take it off me just because the sound effect drives me nuts.

 

I thought they were gonna change that?

[Mastermind pet dismissal failure]

5 hours ago, ZorkNemesis said:

 

/release_pets will also dismiss all pets, though that will also dismiss non-henchmen as well.

They're not exactly the same.

Release will KILL your pets where they stand.

Dismiss makes them leave or desummon.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

The only relevant tests MUST include performance on teams, and you can't handwave that with "it's too hard to test".

A relevant test has to include the Tanker's increased ability to draw and keep aggro AND it must include the fact that on a team they are BOTH insanely tough.

 

The Brute's increased damage is balanced in that environment, because while the improved aggro is of some value, the increased toughness of the Tanker really is only meaningful on smaller teams where there aren't enough buffs for the Brute.

You cannot simply measure their solo performance against the same mission and then declare them imbalanced based on that. That isn't what the game is about.

You're right I DON'T care about that sort of AT balance, and the devs never have either.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Changed two words in your quote. You think blasters and sents are currently balanced?

What kind of intellectually dishonest nonsense is this? What a completely irrelevant question to the topic at hand.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

There isn't a problem to you because you don't give a damn about actual numerical balance in a game based on math.

You haven't shown there's a problem based on math, so stop throwing that around.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

That would be an equitable situation.

Emphasis mine.

You clearly are talking about fairness.

In terms of Balance, they are balanced. Brutes do more damage and are squishier, tanks do less damage and are tougher. The damage differences vary a bit depending on exact situations, the survivability differences become moot at a certain point. Both ATs are valuable on teams for both their offensive and defensive abilities. That is balance.

You're claiming there's a problem where there isn't one.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

It has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that tanks are far too close to brute damage in comparison to their heightened mitigation, a fact that you continually hand-wave away as meaningless.

 

Because at no point have you defined "far too close". That's just an assertion you're making without basis.

Based on the actual testing, no, they aren't. In fact, the opposite, Brutes can be built to survive just about as well as Tanks, but Tanks cannot build to do nearly Brute damage.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Fair doesn't play into it. I don't care what's fair. I care about what's correct. Thank you for admitting that the difference between mitigation values and damage output are numerical nonsense.

 

You are presupposing that in order to be "balanced" the numbers for defense and damage should be identical, but that is an assumption that isn't backed up by any data at all.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Yes, tanks get more defense than brutes get damage.

 

No, that isn't unfair, because of the way the game works and the way IOs and Incarnates are set up.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

These two statements are mutually exclusive. Either I'm numerically correct and the two archetypes are not balanced or I'm wrong and they are.

 

What people "feel" means precisely nothing.

 

No, that's incorrect.

This is your postulate:

"That the extra mitigation provided to tanks is much higher than the extra damage provided to brutes."

 

And that is correct.

But your conclusion, which seems to be "And that isn't fair" is NOT backed up by the data.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

14 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

That the extra mitigation provided to tanks is much higher than the extra damage provided to brutes. Same thing I said in the OP.

 

You know, the thing folks either say isn't true without backing it up with useful and factual data or simply state that it's meaningless.

 

If it isn't true across the board, prove it. If it's actually meaningless, then let's nerf tank mitigation to be equitable to the brute's higher damage output. Edit: OR put tank's damage back to where it should be.

 

It ain't rocket surgery.

 

The problem, Bill, is that the tests people are submitting are showing that the difference in survivability is noticeable, but small and the difference in damage is also noticeable, but also small. You're right, it ain't rocket surgery. But people are backing it up and their results say that while numerically you may be right, the results in game are balanced.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

 

Yea, we are. The problem only exists for those that actually give a damn about archetype balance and we're obviously in the minority. So, whatever.

No, I care about AT balance and I think they’re balanced enough. Brutes do better damage, Tanks are tougher, but neither by enough that it is a huge deal. That IS balance.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

You are going around in circles friends.

 

Brutes are able to tank, and Tankers do plenty of damage though not as much as Brutes. What is the problem?

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

15 minutes ago, chi1701 said:

 

Can you provide any suggestions as to what they can do?

in the case of force fields, they can keep their knockdown aura running, spam repulsion bomb and force bolt, and Attack.

 

i would argue that Force Field actually takes Great advantage of the inherent, since a bubbled team can live at medium health without dying.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Just now, chi1701 said:

 

tbh, if you look at defenders inherent which provides a reduction in cost of endurance for abilties based on overal teams health, how does that benefit pro-active sets such as force fields, how will having more endurance benefit the powers?

If things go south it benefits them plenty.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

You have to admit, it would make the game harder.

 

But it would be like throwing a chaos grenade into the game balance.  

It’s the sort of thing that belongs in Incarnate content. Level shifts beyond Alpha should be restricted to iTrials.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

I’m not advocating for that, though.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

1 minute ago, Haijinx said:

 

I figure he is entitled to his opinion.  But wow.  Every damn balance thread. 

 

I mean he has a point, it would do wonders for increasing the game difficulty.  I am not sure how fair it would be to defense sets and what not but that's kind of beside the point. 

  

I have a feeling it would be less popular than ED and the GDN combined at this point, adjusted for the current game population. 

AT specific def soft caps should have gone in at launch, but it’s too late for that.

 

The only way I could see it being done now would be if Defense based armor sets, and possibly some support sets, had powers that let them get to 45 when everyone else could only get 40. A little like how travel powers now work, but with def.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

But damage output is more valuable than mitigation, ultimately. And so the fact that the tank is further ahead on mitigation than the brute is on damage doesn’t matter.

 

edit: By doesn’t matter I mean they are still balanced despite it. I don’t mean it’s meaningless.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

I’m sorry, anybody who thinks that brutes are obsolete because tankers now do acceptable damage has a really twisted way of looking at the game and should just be ignored. Brutes are fine. They were always monsters and they still are.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

If the tank buffs went too far, then MAYBE pull them back a little. Brutes are FINE.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

Brutes are still the insane destroyers they always were. Stop advocating for power creep.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

But again, if all that extra mitigation the tank has is meaningless, no one should bat an eye about nerfing it into line.

This gets said a lot, but it isn't true.

[Buff Brutes... or Nerf Tanks.]

lol no this is silly

 

Brutes and Tanks are very well balanced now. No changes necessary.

[Frostworks animation bug]

Ok I have tracked the bug down!

 

Is your Corruptor using Custom colors?

 

 

What I found, on both my Cold Mastermind AND my Cold Defender, is Frostworks no longer orbits the target when using the Original color scheme, but does orbit when using the Color Tintable scheme.