Steampunkette

Stacking. That's kind of the core purpose of giving a powerset both a ST and AoE version of the same power. The AoE shuts down the Minions and Lts, the ST stacks with the AoE and shuts down the boss. We probably don't want that for the Operative, it's not a true 'control class'. I think the intent behind going for the AoE Immobilize in the early Operative's design is to reduce incoming damage through movement mitigation on a largish group, forcing them into ranged attacks except whichever one you've singled out to pummel... That said, I see your meaning in the relative power of the AoE Immobilize. So allow me to suggest this: Give their immobilize a 5 target cap and Poison's Splash Area. An 8ft radius means enemies would need to be quite closely grouped to get them all, or that the immobilize only catches a portion of a given group, which should limit it's usefulness slightly while making it more worthwhile than cycling the t1 immob on a Blaster, but not -as- worthwhile as being able to stack it and stop bosses from moving.

-ToHit reduces the chance for an attack to hit you. -Recharge increases the time between attacks. Both reduce incoming damage. One does it through damage avoidance, the other through damage deferral. In both cases the amount of time it would take the enemy to kill you increases. The only real difference is that -ToHit stacks with Defense in a nonlinear fashion, due to Defense's scaling defensive functionality increase which, really, should be split out onto a 1,000 point scale so that a 5% "Defensive" increase increases your survival by a smaller value relative to the 100 point scale we've got going on...

Power Boost is now Power Up. A Combination of Power Boost and Build Up. Could do Aim for the Manipulations?

I know they're designed like Sieves, @Zepp. It's why I argued that the AT should get at -least- 2 defensive powers with their sustain, more probably 3. I don't think it's appropriate to give them a Single Toggle that essentially functions like an entire powerset. But giving them one toggle that applies to the most common types of damage (S/L) and one Elemental/Energy/Exotic seems appropriate. Or 2 of the 3 Vectors, but not the third. (Like Ninjitsu's Danger Sense) Other than that change, I think these look smashing. ... lethal.

Whip can't. Whip isn't actually a weapon, it's just FX. You're thinking of Champions Online.

Not a "New Universal Toggle" just "A Defensive Toggle" So, like, Psychic would get Mind Over Body at level 1. And Electric would get Charged Armor.

If I had my druthers: Tier 1: Defensive Toggle (12.75% Defense or 22.5% Resistance) Tier 2: AoE Immobilize (Or Sleep for Psychic/Electric) Tier 3: AoE Placate with short Defensive Boost (Lasts 30 seconds or so, Recharges in 45 seconds, ignores Recharge) Tier 4: First Manipulation Power Tier 5: Sustain from Manipulation Tier 6: Manipulation Tier 7: Manipulation Tier 8: Manipulation Tier 9: Manipulation or Control And then Specific Sets, like Psychic, would need to shift some of their powers from the Manipulation into the Assault. Like Drain Psyche in Assault needs to be removed for Psionic Tornado from the Manipulation set, since Manipulation uses Drain Psyche as it's Sustain. Instead we can put a Control effect, there, to show Psychic is a more control-centered secondary than one of the others.

Take Hasten or Take Hasten-Lite isn't a meaningful choice.

Yeah. It doesn't just Detoggle. It suppresses. Even your Autopowers and Speed Boost get ignored while you're using Walk.

It would look pretty bad. The rock they use with Hurl is the same every time because it's designed to fit the hand-spread used in the animation. A Car would work fine with that hand-spread, probably, but you'd be pulling a car out of the floor. Of an Office Building. On the Third Floor. And it would clip like hell with your legs before you chucked it. Though the chucking would look fine! And if it were to randomly include statues and printers and table lamps, your hands aren't -always- going to line up. Sometimes neither hand will line up.

You'd need no less than: /e Two handed Brandish (For Titan Weapons/Katana/Staff) /e Dual Wield Brandish (For Pistols and Dual Blades) /e One Handed Brandish (For Mace/Axe/Bane/Broadsword) /e Rifle Brandish (For AR/BR/Arachnos Soldier) /e Claw Brandish (For Claws/Widows/Savage?) /e Archer Brandish (For Archery) /e Shield and Weapon Brandish (For Shields and Mace/Axe/Broadsword) But you'd probably need to split out the emotes for TW/Kat/Staff or else you'd be stabbing yourself with chunks of the TWs because of their large and variable shapes relative to the Katana or Staff. Or you'd be holding the Katana in one hand and kind of gripping in the general vicinity of the blade with the other. Same with Spear. Also, Pistols and Dual Blades would probably be best to split if only so you can show off in different ways, like cycling pistol tricks. Maces and Broadswords probably wouldn't be -too- big of a deal in the same pose, but Axes might 'cause of the wider heads and how some of them are much 'Longer' than others. Also the Rifles are ridiculously varied, so that any pose you do that works with the Frankengun sill have your hand floating a foot away from a Beam Rifle's grip. So probably closer to 13 individual emotes to cover the different weapon types.

I feel like it would be better suited at a higher tier. Even with defensive buffs applied to the power, presumably lasting a few seconds after activation, it's mostly going to function as an "You don't see meeeee!" power. One which focuses on the higher combat function 'Placate' rather than the lower combat function 'Buffs' I can't, for example, see the AoE placate +22% S/L resistance buff as something that the player can use once per minute with a 1 minute duration on the 22% S/L resistance buff. I feel like the baseline stealth and protective power kind of set the tone for the character. A tone which the later AoE Placate effect capitalizes on and cements.

Never guess people's motivations. In the best case scenario it's rude and accurate. In the worst case scenario it's outright offensive. This is not the best case.

Thank you for having that faith in me, even if we don't agree. I really do appreciate it! Mechanical Inertia isn't -always- bad. That's why we have the cottage rule. But it seems to me that in this case? Mechanical Inertia is giving people the idea that Hasten is "Fine". That it's not Overpowered. That it's perfectly balanced as a pool power 'cause Cryptic put it in and never changed it. But then again, Cryptic stuck with mechanical inertia on Stamina and the Fitness pool in general for 18 issues of people spending a pool pick and 3 power picks on something they eventually realized would be better suited as a part of every single build without fail. I think Hasten is kind of in the same boat. Maybe not -quite- as massively tied to baseline combat as Stamina, obviously. But it's become such a central pillar of player experience, and is so terrible OP compared to it's contemporaries... ... so I went over all my calculations trying to find the error and I found it: The Value is 1/2 for 100%, 2/3 for 200%. Not 1/2 for 100%, 3/4 for 200%. Fuck me... I'll be back Sunday with a new calculation... Also the TTK is pretty variable, particularly once you start getting into Defensive Buffs (+Def, +Res, +Regen) and Defensive Debuff (-Acc, -ToHit, -Rech, -Dam) powers. Once I get up into figuring out expected outputs at levels higher than 12 I find it's easier to just grab a random selection of NPCs of that level, choose a Baseline PC for that level, and go Second by Second through the combat on Paper. Like literally mapping out the Arcanatime for each attack for each combatant on their specific powers' damage and recharge rates based on 'Optimized Play'. That is to fire off the big attacks first so their recharge starts. Then I find out how long everything takes and modify the stats of the different powers and combatants in opposite directions to find out how far from the TTK I found in that combat the modifiers move things.

The first one is always going to be subjective. I have a BIG problem when people call me a tranny. But the people who call me that don't care a whit. I can provide them all the evidence in the world why they shouldn't, but they're not going to care 'cause it's not a problem for -them-. No matter how real, demonstrated, or urgent it is for me or other people like me. I've expressed the ways that Hasten is a vast outlier in the field of power pools. I've expressed how it's viewed as a Must Have and several people have stepped into this thread to say "You can't delete Hasten, it's a Must Have!" to paraphrase them. So that's pretty clearly established. Does the fix do more harm than good? Well, suggestion 3 does very little harm, except to the fingers of the Dev Team as they pound keys to get it all inputted across literally hundreds of powers... In a few edge cases it means people require more recharge than they already have to be at full power, but it's kind of rare. There's also a few specific enemies that will need to be adjusted, like Reichsman and Valkyrie. And there might be a simpler way to fix the problem... But I think anything simpler is going to conflict with item 2. The bigger question I think we should ask ourselves is: Are we clinging to hasten in it's current form because it's how it's always been, the Status Quo, or because it's -actually- fine the way it is because it's not really stronger than any pool powers?

Sorry! 12 Mag 1 attacks at 8.6 damage. 8.6 at level 1 is 1 Magnitude of damage. As you level up the damage increases per mag but so do your hit points in a nonlinear manner (Takes more Mags as you get up in level because HP grows on a slightly different line to allow for greater magnitude variety without insta-killing PCs, this is why Alphas tend to kill squishies instantly while more leisurely combat gives them more room to maneuver: All the enemies are throwing their higher mags at once) 8.6 damage hits you 11 times and you go from 100hp to 5.4HP, but you've probably had a Regen Tick or Two in there over the course of normal combat, so the 12th hit finishes you off. It's important to note: You don't fight 1 enemy throwing Mag 1 attacks at you at level 1. You fight 3. And typically a Lieutenant throwing Mag 1.3 attacks. So unless you narrow out the field (Whether through controls or murder) you can rack up those 12 hits in as little as 15-20 seconds.

She. Not He. I figured the name would give it away... Or the -last- time someone called me "He" in this thread and I corrected them, but whatever. No. I'm not 'Trolling'. I sincerely believe the things I'm writing, here. I think Hasten is bad for the game's overall health because it limits choices by standing out as too good for what it is, a pool power. The Pool Powers are meant to be fun and interesting, to change how you play or give you the ability to do some things you're not normally able to do. Like Tankerminds Taunting in Bodyguard mode or a Defender using Placate when the Tank drops so they can rez without being murdered by the AV the tank no longer has aggro on. Or giving Controllers some melee attacks so they can actually put out some damage even if they're not Illusionists. Hasten was meant to be part of the "Superspeed" style of gameplay. The person who hits faster than other people 'cause they're a speedster. But because of it's wide-ranging applications, how it improves -every- power that isn't a toggle or autopower, it's not really a thematic power, anymore. It's just a power everyone takes because it makes you better at everything. So we should cut it. And replace it with something that -is- thematic. But I also recognize that it's a part of a -lot- of people's playstyles. So the compromise is to make it a core baseline function of gameplay. We could turn it into an Autopower with slots and everything, sure. But it would be -super- boring and impossible to balance around because slotting exists and you can't change the visual FX of your autopowers so everyone would be stuck with glowing yellow hands. Or we can find a different way to implement it. Like the 14% reduction to base cooldown before Recharge Rates are applied.

14%, not 13. Also the 30% is at highest level. So. Hasten at Autohasten levels provides a constant 70% bonus to Recharge Rate, globally. By itself, on any given power, that's a Recharge Time reduction of about 35% of the power's overall cooldown duration. This is because every 100% recharge rate you apply to a power drops it's Cooldown in Half from the Current. So if you have a power with a cooldown of 60 seconds and 100% Recharge rate (including any slotted Enhancements) the cooldown becomes 30 seconds. If you get another 100% Recharge Rate (Say, 70% from Hasten and a further 30% from Accelerate Metabolism) the cooldown becomes 15 seconds, half of 30, not 0. So assuming you put in any Global Recharge And/Or Slot the power, Hasten's -actual- benefit can be anywhere from 35% of the power's cooldown length to 8% of the power's overall cooldown length. That is to say the first 100% reduces the original cooldown by 50% and the second 100% reduces it by only 25% of the original cooldown. I workshopped different values from as low as 8% to as high as 20% through a loooot of calculations on powers at different levels of recharge and found 14% through process of elimination. (For what it's worth I put in 8% first and found it way too small, then 20% and it was too big but not by, like, a -ton-? So I dropped to 18% and then 14%!) As to the 30% health increase: Workshopped. I took a look at low level encounters, first, and plugged in some Real Numbers to determine how much of an -actual- increase the Recharge Rate Buff was. I found that the times were similar but that a miss or two skewed results high for the 14% reduced cooldown design, so I skewed health up by 9%, then looked at how many attack powers a player had access to at increasing levels and the Damage Magnitudes of those powers. Averaged them out and increased HP by the stated value, up to the maximum of 30% to offset a full attack chain coming out SO slotted and 14$ lower base cooldown. As to TTD it varies based on level, but the simplest expression is 11 Mag 1 attacks, modified by AT HP Modifier and NPC Rank. I.E. a Lieutenant NPC firing a Mag 1 attack has a bit of a damage bonus more than a Minion firing a similar attack. Part of the conning system.

Those who did take Hasten, before, no longer have to deal with Hasten's Endurance Crash. Assault's End cost to it's benefit is fairly balanced against other pool powers. People who took Hasten and lose it to gain the benefits of Hasten get to pick up Assault. People who had Assault and didn't get Hasten get the benefits of Hasten. Fair point! And, as previously noted in reference to Valkyrie and other ATs who have Regeneration Powers, it would need a second pass. But this is another hedge case. Not the overall.

You do know that's a titanic strawman, right, @Demon Shell? Minimally slotting recharge and using recharge set bonuses would still work. You'd just need to get the global recharge rate from IO Set Bonuses, Quickness, Accelerate Metabolism, etc. You just wouldn't use Hasten to achieve it. And wouldn't -need- Hasten to do it 'cause the baseline cooldown would be reduced by 14%. As to "Rebalance the whole game"... I kinda already did...? Like... I went through the math on power recharge rates from 2 seconds all the way up to 300 seconds+. I went over the NPC HP Values and baseline regeneration rates as well as damaging power availability by level range and archetype... There are a few hedge cases that need finagling (Particularly regenning AVs and EBs as noted)... but the base idea is sound. It even works to keep high end recharge builds largely intact. The 14% reduction of cooldown on fairly short recharge (Relative to the 300 second recharge times...) powers (Like the high damaging powers used in optimal chains) still gain the benefit as if they had hasten. They might need to eke out a tiny bit more recharge to reach a plateau but... Yeah.

There's a range, Nihili. Balance in any game cannot be 1 to 1 without all the abilities being identical or having an identical impact. It's true. Which is why -no one- tries to balance things flawlessly. Flawless balance would be dull. But balance in games is still something developers strive for. There's a reason there's a formula for end cost-recharge-damage in the CoH engine. There's a reason PvP kept getting balance waves that rippled across it (At least early on before everyone kinda gave up!) Because there's a difference between "Absolute Balance" and "Ballpark Balance" A balance where stuff is within 10-15% of equal one way or the other. This power isn't great, but that one's good, and this one's pretty cool. The latter is what you want in a game. So that even though a given member of the team might not be able to knock it out of the park, everyone can take the field. Hasten? Hasten hits it out of the park every time it gets to bat in the Minor Leagues. You don't keep Hasten in the Minors. You put Hasten into the Major Leagues where he has some competition and it makes the game more fun. Enemies take up to 30% more damage before dropping 'cause you hit them 14% (baseline) more quickly with all of your attacks. The more attacks you have to cycle, the more hits you get within the same 15-20 second window before the critter dies. Without the HP Bonus you'd just kill everything faster. It's there to reduce the power creep of handing everyone 14% faster attacks. The extra power could cause creep. Particularly if people take Assault. But it also has an Endurance cost to it that constantly ticks away and the enemies are slightly tougher which could help to offset the extra 10% damage slightly... You get the idea. And hit him faster. Why do people keep separating the components of the suggestion without trying to understand how they work together?

There's no way to buff all the power pools to be as good as Hasten. It's effects are just too far-reaching. There's no way to buff all the power pools to be as good as Hasten. It's effects are just too far-reaching. My third suggestion -basically- gives everyone Permahasten. By reducing all cooldowns by 14% -before- applying any Recharge Rate Modifications to them, it mimics the effects of permahasten at almost all levels except the most extreme values. And even in those extreme cases it's still possible to push a tiny bit harder than people are currently pushing to get right back to the full effects. It also reduces the recharge rate for everyone who -doesn't- take Hasten, obviously, so an HP increase for NPCs is there to help offset the increase in damage dealing capabilities.

It increases your click healing by making it recharge faster allowing more clicks in a given period (Whether self-targeting, ally targeting, or area of effect). It increases your click damage by making it recharge faster allowing more clicks in a given period (Whether ranged, melee, single target, or AoE). It increases your Debuff Capability for click debuffs by making it recharge faster allowing more clicks in a given period (Whether single target or AoE, defense, tohit, resistance, damage, speed, recharge, etc etc etc). It increases your buff capability for click debuffs by making it recharge faster allowing more clicks in a given period (Whether single target or AoE, defense, tohit, resistance, damage, recharge, etc etc etc). It increases your click based Control powers by making it recharge faster allowing more clicks in a given period (Whether AoE, Melee, Single Target, Immob, Hold, Confuse, Stun, Etc etc etc and increases your Mag Stacking window) It is easier to list the things it does not affect, which amounts to "Toggles and Autopowers and Powers that Ignore Recharge Rate Modifications". Oh. Except for Telekinesis and Dimension Shift. Toggles with a long recharge time. We also don't balance the game around IO Set Bonuses... but if we did.... it would make Hasten even MORE VALUABLE. Not less so. Otherwise less level 50 characters would take it, not the 83% as it stands.

The point of Power Pools is that they're basically Trash. They're not meant to be as strong as your primary or secondary powers. They're supposed to be 'Flavor Picks' rather than Mandatory. Hasten is basically as strong as "Quickness" from SR out of the gate, but can be enhanced to increase it's overall effectiveness while Quickness cannot. In the context of game design something being more powerful than it's contemporaries is a bad thing. That's why Nerfs exist. And Buffs, too. That's why powersets and archetypes and individual powers get balanced. It's a way to try and keep the game fair and fun. That's not a Fallacy. That's a logical conclusion. A Fallacy is when you use faulty reasoning to create a point in a discussion. There's a lot of fallacious arguments that have been catalogued. And we've seen a lot of them, here. Like the Strawman fallacy, where you don't debate a point the opposition made, but construct an argument tangentially based on a single point made by the opposition and then defeat that false argument with a logical conclusion. Or the Slippery Slop fallacy, where you infer that because of one change occurring, an unrelated change on a loose tangent of thinking must also occur at some point in the future.

Assault and Leadership can affect a team in a big way, absolutely. But it REQUIRES 8 players to all take it and team together. One person taking it? Not so big an improvement. Still nice to have. Would you choose Assault or Maneuvers over Hasten? Especially since Hasten also applies to Build Up and Mind Link and... Tough and Weave are not contemporary powers to Hasten. They're gated. And even if they weren't they -only- affect one specific piece of your character's build. Defense or Damage Resistance. Hasten also applies to self-heals, attacks, click-defenses, controls... Combat Jumping is a nifty power, but it only improves one or two narrow functions. Hasten improves -many-.