Ruin Mage

That's fine. I can understand why in retrospect.

I love this base and this idea. Good luck to those who get involved.

HC's approach is to make it work the first time around, not the 'just release it and worry about it later/never' approach.

I'm going to raise a point raised elsewhere; Adding the 'No Incarnates' part to the old Master of ruleset is a weird move to make after having years of that not being a thing. While I understand that Incarnate powers make the no death part far easier, these TFs are by no means breezed just because someone popped Barrier. Ghost Widow's "you're dead" hold in the Liberty SF can still get someone if you are being careless. This same can be said for the all out AV brawl in the Recluse SF. Speaking from the Everlasting perspective - the Master of runs often have to deal with a death within the first mission and resetting. Well they used to when I ran them. So the problem isn't Incarnates - it's the random nature of people. I don't think making an additional change to the old ruleset is needed, imo. It can be hard enough as it is trusting an average joe to pay attention to what they are doing.

I have a hard disagreement with this. Chiefly is that these are optional challenge badges from a specific set of rules. Challenges often have rules to them to be recognized. No deaths, while tough for average joes, is nothing that hasn't been seen in MMO design before. I had a debate about this elsewhere, but removing the no deaths part on the subjective nature of fun is a slippery slope. We have two Master of badge styles. The first is seen in Imperious, Gray, Liberty, Kahn/Cudda, and Recluse. This is the no deaths, no temp powers (and now no Incarnates as of P3) style. The new style is challenge badges (seen in iTrials, TinPex, and now the ASF) - giving two very different ways to get a Master of badge. The No Deaths part has been a staple of the first set and shouldn't go away. If you feel that you cannot go a run without dying, then you do not need the badge. The badge subset is meant to promote teamwork and coordination. Sure, it also promotes carefully planning a team out to cover all bases for a more effecient run. This is not gatekeeping or ablest - the latter of which is a baffling claim. No one in their right mind is going to use the Master of badges as a means to gatekeep someone. This isn't like WoW where these runs are timed ala Mythic+ or that an achievment is key to joining an LFG raid. In most runs, its not one or two members carrying. A well rounded Master of team will have support, hopefully some lockdown, and a boatload of damage + a tanker. Unlike the ASF, most Master of badges don't flood you with so many enemies that taunt becomes ineffective. Most enemy groups are also already figured out or covered. The biggest problems will be a Master of that has psionic or toxic, I feel. Maybe also Fire, but I don't pay 100% attention. The "worst" offenders for Master of failures, I feel, are Liberty & Recluse + Gray. But those you do need to coordinate and play carefully. This is not gatekeeping, ablest, or anything elite - which is what I saw as an argument elsewhere. Team efforts are exactly what Task Forces are meant to be, and the subset of badges even more so. If someone is upset they didn't get the badge? They can try try and try again. It's not a limited time badge, and it isn't one that people are using to look down on others. If we wanted to talk about fun, this opens the slippery slope of certain badges like the Defeat badges using old style versus new style. I loathe the old style where its like 200 bosses, and love the new style of points. However, just because that's my view doesn't mean all the old style badges need to change. This applies here as well - just because it's not fun to you does not mean it needs to be uprooted to make the game easier. Yes, there is a factor of RNG & luck but that too remains a staple of MMORPG design. It sucks if a Master of run fails, but it's not the end of the world. You can reform and try again - learning lessons along the way. Maybe a run failed because you split up. Maybe the tank lost control of an ambush because people are going too fast. These are things that can be helped by the team playing like a team. Which restrictions? The no Incarnates part is the only new one, and that's better discussed in the ADO/Challenge mode thread. However, I am on the same mindset that adding the No Incarnates to the old Master of is a very sketchy move. Luckily, Malicious is the barest bones of difficulties that are relatively easy unless you have a team of super-gimped builds. You may still need to do work for these badges - something that isn't new - but strategizing for badges is not a heinous thing. Look at the iTrials or TinPex for example. This is nothing new, but the idea of requiring specific optional difficulties is new. This is not a bad thing, and as Cobalt said these badges are optional. Want to get them? You have to do something to get them. It is the same as the master of - badges with the other ruleset.

I agree with Falcon. TFs already can be relatively solo'ed, outside of some sets/builds/ATs depending. Easy Mode is already on HC as is, what with ease of access to stuff like Lore Pets & Envenom Dagger etc.

Yeah, I did an oops on that one.

Bill Zee Bubba knocks it out of the park.

Yes, lets do it.

You can solo it/duo it. The only issue comes in the AVs, which will take time. Now if you mean every AT should be able to solo/duo it, that is a balance thing because not all ATs are soloers of AVs. You can, already in game, make it easier on yourself (Shivans, nukes, lore pets, envenomned dagger temp power, etc) I'm not sure what downward would look like given that very few of the AVs in end-level TFs have EB versions for example. Now, most TFs (if not all, I forget) also have no timer on them. You can take your time solo/duo in them all you want. Nothing really needs to change.

No one is stealing my (admittedly with no pay) job!

Real life is a master of making it hard to be around. It would go nowhere, nor is it really required. The people who are productive will remain productive - which will be subjective anyway. Not quite how it works, but this belief isn't inherently bad. It's about reading the room and recognizing what is possible in a community of strangers & what others are willing to do / go through. Public discussion, while nice, may simply not go anywhere or be worth it. It's not meant to be pessimism, but more of a thought based on experience in wider communities. The whole approach of 'We should try this to change this!' is nice but naive. The forums will, for the most part, remain as they are - nothing is truly truly that heinous that some big shift is needed. Report vitriolic posts, don't engage with the vitriolic, and that's that. Part of the issue is that once you engage with the vitriolic? You can often just go in circles with them. That's the trap of it all. A very easy trap - because someone somewhere wants to be right. There are people as well who use the reactions (Confused, Laugh, thumbs down) in more mean-spirited manner. You (speaking generally here) cannot do a thing about that, because despite it being mean-spirited it can't be controlled. Not without bordering into really sketchy enforcement, victim complexes (Unlikely, but possible), or otherwise shaky ground.

Alright, so without pulling the lovely "No" and leaving it at that - here's why this is a suggestion that will not get put forward onto HC. Firstly, it takes barely a day to get to 50 if you can play for 2+ hours and can get on a farm. This makes the ease of access to 50 already covered. Otherwise, as mentioned, you have the Beta / Test shards or you have the Cake server. These aren't going anywhere any time soon, and if not having people to interact with is a problem then that's a sacrifice one can take for this instant gratification. Secondly, it would do more harm than good especially with the upcoming Page 3 Advanced Difficulty Options. There is nothing about 50 that is special right now, but allowing people to just fling themselves (even more so) to 50 would not end well. Yes, we have easier access to builds and such now but that doesn't mean a Insta-50 option should be done live. It's a bad design in an already easy game. Thirdly, you are skipping past tons of content. Yes, you have exemplar'ing but there's a big difference in taking a character to 50 versus skipping to 50. Level Boosts, like this desires, are antithesis to gameplay and content both. Tons and tons of story arcs, and some strike forces/task forces feel way different at-level. Fourthly, HC isn't looking to do it. Otherwise, it would have been done by now. It's not particularly difficult to implement I imagine, but why implement it? It has no benefits. If the suggestion went in with the no inf, no anything etc - the character you just level boosted is going to SUCK. It's going to be able to do nothing. That's not what the game was made for, and given insta-level capped toons only became a thing more recently? It doesn't fit the game design of CoH. (Yes, yes - farming, but that's a different beast) There are other games, servers, and the Beta/Test shards if you want instant gratification & build testing.

A release-level shard with even faster leveling and whatever else would just open the door to "Okay, but now make a pre-<this issue> shard!" No thanks. It's not good design.

I'm looking at the badges now. Unfriendly, Ripple, Power, and Can't Touch This all require Malicious. Gold Standard (completion badge, herp) and I think Best Friends can be done base. So, you can do it on Malicious - which as just added powers but no big stats & restrictions. That's the best way to get the badges. You can also get all the badges in the same run - its like the TinPex style badges. I think surviving tedium would be more valid if these badges required Vicious and higher - which is when we get into stats / restrictions

The bio tanker was great, but Bio can only do so much (such as when certain powers are down) Also hi Rep!

You can do it at the low setting mentioned, or you can attempt it on Relentless. It will be tougher, but its possible! So starting at Malicious, you can go for the badges. 4 settings - Malicious, Vicious, Ruthless, and Relentless in that order.

Here is my last run on Saturday night. Relentless, 186 deaths. It starts from the Cauldron mission (oops) You can skip around as need be, but its a nice show of what to expect. We don't do the ripple 2 & 3 fight because of lag and time.

Like others have said; test or beta server get the job done. Otherwise, no thanks.

I'll have to run it with an MM in the team to see how it works at Relentless. It might not auto-slay but there's definitely some bosses that really hate (for example) lore pets. Not sure what's insta-gibbing them but at highest there's a LOT going on.

I never meant to say that I am speaking fact, but more so from personal experience. I apologize if It seemed like I was speaking factually.

Smelters in ADO-enabled runs hit with Melt Armor. There's sonic grenades (though those are -res IIRC)

The only time you need to stand in something is in the Midas fight, and that's more so that you can damage him. Otherwise, don't stand in the blue. And can you pull out data that shows it is a myth? Thanks. It's as I said either here or the other thread - experiences will differ and its personal experience. Right now, without the ADO-enabled ASF, support is not needed to make a team effective. This is based on the homogenization caused by Incarnate powers & the ease of access to softcapping almost any character. Now, this does not speak for things BELOW 50, but the ADO stuff is for Level 50+ (including Incarnate) characters. The ASF, at its base, is not terribly difficult from what I've read. If you are trying to engage in the difficulty options with a lower than 50 character you will have a bad time (outside of, from what I understand, HM0) Support, such as controllers or dominators, are not in high demand in the content pre-HC (aka everything) because you can often murder tornado everything. Just because you don't does not mean it does not happen. Just because you have not seen a case of something does not make it a myth. Experiences differ and mileage will vary, and especially so across different shards.

But the thing is it isn't a myth. It's not pulled out of thin air, but based on experience at the end-level. It's not a perfect solution, but nothing ever is. The ASF itself is not, but the advanced difficulties are a way to use what is in CoH already (iTrials, specific TFs) and build up on them. It's nothing different from what one does in task forces or iTrials, but rather all of it brought together. A WoW dungeon is also not comparable because WoW caps out at 5 team members with a very different design due to classes & specs vs Archetypes & powersets. Later TFs have had similar count of AVs anyway, but the Challenge-ASF has 3 optional ones. Without those three its Frobe, Zoe, Roller, Rodney, Surge, and Midas. Well, Surge changes based on Difficulty I think.

Oh right, the Incarnate reward bug. Why did that escape me LMAO. The tethering too. I kinda forgot about that with all the "OH NO." moments from my runs. Oops.