Marbing

Like Dark Armor having no KB protection, that's a hole, for example that didn't get touched. While Ice/EA/Invuln all already performed very well in all content (being also fairly well rounded in their own right) got a slight buff. I don't mind the change at all. Just didn't think these sets needed it. I was just trying to offer an explanation as to why some people might be against this change, that's all.

Major Damage is on vacation.

They may not be too much in and of themselves, but I think many are more of the mind that they are too much given that the sets that didn't have these holes didn't receive any compensation for the holes that they do have.

FWIW I can get 1-50 in PI Radios, on a team, in less than 10 hours of game time, w/ double xp. Also, I can get 1-50 doing level appropriate content, on a team, all the way up in approximately 12-15 hours of game time (give or take), w/ double xp. The slowest would be soloing 1-50 level appropriate content, but I don't do that anymore because I like to have company. 😄 In an AE Farm I can get 1-50 in a couple of hours door sitting, w/ double xp. Edit: These are best case estimates based on personal experience and may not reflect everyone’s experience. The thing is, they don't want to nerf PLing 1-50, that isn't the issue as I understand it with these changes. The target here was Vet Rewards. They are trying to curb the rewards beyond the 1-50 experience. I think it is important that we keep that at the forefront of the issue here. Because once you get 50, you start getting Emp Merits every 3 vet levels, these are incredibly valuable. And I know they taper off, but that doesn't slow anyone down from just creating another bunch of alts and farming them up to get more, because it is just that fast to do it. So the argument is really about whether or not we think that the rate in which you can get these in an AE farm is too fast. And if so, by how much. Would you settle for half? Where is that sweet spot? Where is that compromise?

I agree with you here, this hits at the possible solution to the problem as I see it. If the max experience/inf gain possible is evened out across AE and non-AE then I don't see an issue with that. The issue is, as you say it, finding that sweet spot. I think it is fair to limit AE to that of the maximum possible results you could get outside of AE, which is still pretty good, just not ridiculous. There are multiple ways you could accomplish this as have been discussed. I am not pinned down to one solution, just saying that anything that accomplishes this would be okay by me.

Correct, but I think it has been discovered, not nearly in the same volume as AE farming. But someone with better access to data would have to show that stuff, and I am lazy and don't want to find it right now... 😄

This is the crux of the argument. It being the way it is causes a vacuum that forces players to play a certain way for their rewards. Because why do anything else? As others have said, this is already happening on Excelsior. I don't see how it wouldn't be fair to curb it down to at least the most extreme non-AE content. Which is still, apparently, no where near that of AE farming. This is not feasible without causing other problems, such as out-leveling an area after 1 or 2 missions. The pace is the pace for a reason, and even then double XP kind of encroaches on that.

Then no, I have not tested every single aspect of the AE changes. Specifically the ones related to advanced power options, more enemy groups, and such. I have tested the power changes for fire attacks, and found that you only need 1-3 more powers (depending on mob rank) to get back to 100% xp. This does make a difference on their damage output and behavior, especially when combined with the aggro changes, but not so large that it really makes things worse (depending on your build). In fact overall farming got a buff in efficiency. The inf per enemy is about the same as well from what I was noticing. I was using a lvl 50 so I havn't checked the xp gain rate.

I know thats all in here, I just didnt know if he had a specific aspect in mind.

Testing what? I have tested farming in beta, but not sure which aspect you are referring to.

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... 😛 EDIT: But seriously, those numbers being thrown around are top end and usually involve multiple accounts or extremely well oiled toons with very efficient players who have a specific map patterns down extremely well to optimize xp/inf per hour. Not everyone is going to see those results, but even on average results its MUCH quicker than anything outside of AE. I, for example, had one of my toons power-leveled by a friend from 1-50 and then all the way to vet lvl 9 in about 6 hours of total gameplay. Which I don't think is even peak performance.

I am legitimately curious how everyone feels about this as a possible compromise. I really hope to see some feedback on this, because I actually think this is a good idea. STOP MAKING SENSE @America's Angel YOU'RE GOING TO HURT MY BRAIN! 😛

I know. But with 16 pages I felt it may be a good time to summarize the answers to those questions in case new people are skimming through and want a recap. I wasn't making a statement of agreement or disagreement, just summarizing what has been said. I don't think the age and past coh experience of the community has fallen on deaf ears, that isn't the impression that I get. And while I can understand this may not be a perfect fix, I also don't think it is the AE apocalypse (not that I am implying that you think it is).

One thing I will say, I am glad I have been prioritizing Ranged Defense over S/L on most of my squishies. That will be much more important after this change, IMO. Maybe I can see the future and I don't know that I can?! 😮 😁

This has already been answered many different ways, but I will summarize: 1) They like the easy, repetitive, and predictable nature of AE Farms. 2) The rewards are better/faster in AE Farms (drops, vet rewards, etc). 3) You can go from 1-50 and beyond faster in AE Farms. 4) You get more influence in AE Farms. 5) AE Farms are easier to AFK/Bot farm. 6) Many (not all) AE Farmers are uninterested in story/lore content of any kind. 7) It is the single most efficient way to get all the resources you need to build your characters. EDIT: Added by @The_Warpact : 8 ) Time, AE Farming doesn't take as long as other content. EDIT: Added by @Bionic_Flea : 9) Relaxation - Once you get into a rhythm, farming can be soothing and meditative. 10) Being surrounded by enemies and mowing them down makes the player feel super. 11) Not having to wait/deal with other players. EDIT: Added by @EmperorSteele: 12) Dopamine. I may have missed some, and if I have feel free to add. But, I think those are many of the points that have been made in response to that line of questioning.

I think these time frames are what make this fair. If you are actually playing the character, even once in a while, you are not going to run into issues. If you have an alt parked at level 1 for more than 30 days, then you are just holding a name and not using a toon. It takes very little effort to get that toon to lvl 6 and be safe for 3 months, or lvl 21 and be safe for A YEAR. My opinion on the matter for what it is worth. I do, however, understand the sentiment for people (like me) who have a million alts. The initial push for this is going to be brutal as I will have A LOT of characters to parse through and log into, and most of them aren't in rest areas. So at around 30 seconds per toon, its going to end up taking me most of the night just to get their timers reset once this goes live. So, yeah, not fun.... But overall, I think this is a positive change for the long run. THIS BEING SAID HOWEVER, there are cases that have been mentioned where someone will go on a long leave (be it medical, military, etc) and wont have access to their accounts. Is there a process in place to help those people? I believe I suggested before that coordinate before hand (if possible) that a friend log in for them, never heard a response on that. But, in the event they can't, is there any thought process into possibly setting up a system where someone can request a waiver from this in the event something like this happens to them?

*anticipation intensifies*

Indeed, judgement rotation is super efficient.

Okay so I ran a couple tests with the following: Elec/TA Controller with the following stats: Things to note: This is a semi proc bomb build. It has clarion and also -22.79% tohit in flash arrow. Being a controller obviously comes with the perks of holds, confuse, as well as some massive -end from elec. The second build was: DP/Nin Blaster with the following stats: Things to note: This build does not have clarion, so holds are only mitigated by break frees. The build DOES have barrier but I didn't use it in this test because I wanted to test his base defense values not ones inflated by barrier. This build can use HoB every 25 seconds, so clearing enemies is much faster than on the controller. But also less safe with no holds and no -tohit. I saw no major noticeable change between live and brainstorm, when you take on one group at a time (More on this in a bit). I did PI Radios, solo, with a mix of Council, CoT, and Arachnos. [EDIT: Forgot to add, this was at +4/x8 because that is how I regularly play] I didn't keep track of clear times, I was just trying to take on one group at a time and see how well I survived playing it the same way. I noticed almost no difference in survival or difficulty except with Arachnos, but even then it wasn't massive, just have to be a little more careful. NOW, when I was less careful, played loose, and tried to wade into multiple spawns. I noticed a difference. This could be because of the aggro changes. I think those have a bigger impact than the attack type changes, but its not impossible solo. Just need to be more careful is all. I hope this helps, maybe it doesn't. Just what I noticed when testing the content. Not a huge deal overall, IMO.

Me! See my signature! 😄 I love playing support, I play it all day every day. I also love this change. But, I know that I am not everyone.... HOWEVER, I understand your concerns and the points you are making about, for example, the cold bullet (it should be a lethal attack). I do not want to speak for the devs... but I believe the logic is that currently S/L defense is overperforming to the point that it makes many (not all) other defenses nearly pointless (unless you don't have S/L protection). For example there are very few cold attacks out there that don't have a smashing or lethal component attached to them. This makes Cold Defense rather pointless except in niche situations. By making cold attacks roll against your cold defense instead, you actually get a buff to cold defenses importance in game. The same can actually be said for fire, negative (a little less so), and energy defense. Psi defense is a little less so, because I believe the majority of those attacks are just psi, so that remains relatively unaffected, except again in a couple of situations. This also actually buffs the importance of positional defenses. Thus, giving ranged defense (which a lot of blasters/support toons build for also) a bit of a buff in a way. Overall though, these changes were tested and it was discovered that they have had very little impact so far except against a few enemy groups. But by all means test test test (as I know you said you have) because if there is something that is missing, I am sure the devs will want to take a look at it. So it isn't as big a nerf and it sounds. I hope that helps and I hope I didn't repeat anything you already knew. If I did, sorry. I just figured I was here and typing so why not say everything. 😄

Gotcha, apologies for the misunderstanding.

Not that I am against this change, but to be fair, depending on where the character is logged off, it can take up to 20-30 seconds per character. I have tested. It is faster if you happen to log out in a rest zone, like Pocket D. And, I realize you could have been just making a point of it being quick, I just wanted to point this out. The solution to the length of time it takes to log into each character is to either A) level those characters to 50 or B) move those characters to a rest zone (this will significantly cut down on the log in/log out time.)

This, yes. Those changes have made a difference and will affect older farms that haven't been updated. It is a key point to bring up so there is no confusion. EDIT: I plan on updating my farm later tonight, and testing, I can send you or anyone the info on it once I am done so you can test before and after with a farm you know has been adjusted for 100% xp. Unless someone else has one they would like to share. Sharing is caring after all.

You would have to test clear time, live vs brainstorm to determine if those changes were as detrimental as supposed. Has anyone done this with a Sentinel?

I told myself I would stop responding but I think it is worth noting that one way to look at this is that the entire PvE experience is one giant farm. You can grind anything in the game at various rates to get various rewards. Heck even badge hunting is a grind. (EDIT: And even they have to dip into content they typically don’t like, PvP, to get everything.) AE is part of that PvE experience and it has been found that it is the single best/quickest source for most of that grind. We have to stop looking at AE as if it is an entirely separate thing. It is part of the entire experience. So, yes, you could make arguments that people will grind elsewhere. Because, EVERYTHING is a grind at various rates. The problem is that AE is by far the quickest grind for nearly everything that a player needs. If it were not, then people wouldn't be using AE (as @arcane said) they would be using those other parts of the game. Having AE be the single best source for most of the rewards causes the rest of the PvE experience to be trivialized. AE farms are easier to abuse, because you can AFK farm/bot them much easier, because you can alter the powers of your enemies, because you can set the conditions of the map how you want them to be as efficient as possible. You can't do that with farming Council Radios (for example). Let us also keep in mind that AE farming isn't going away, they are just curbing the rewards from them.