Marbing

It’s funny, 2 years ago I tested the waters on discord with the idea that Corruptors do more damage than Defenders and was basically told I was wrong by several people. Here we are 2 years later and when I and others argue that Defenders do too close (even if we admit that Corruptors do a little more on average) to the same damage as Corruptors a lot of the same people are now saying that’s incorrect and that Defenders do far less damage. 🤣 Ahh you gotta love the internet. EDIT: Don't get my wrong, my opinion on this has shifted a little over time. But I still maintain that a Defender shouldn't get a 30% damage buff when solo, it makes no sense and defeats the purpose of a Corruptor a little. Still to this day, no one has made a legitimate argument as to why a defender needs a 30% damage buff when solo that can't be countered with "then why did you create a Defender if your concern was solo damage output?"

This is also a good point, I have plenty of female toons and not all the them need to look super fit and athletic. But, there aren’t a whole lot of options. It would be nice if you had like a checkbox or something that changed that. Like: Athletic, check, now my toons skin looks more muscular, Standard, check, now my toons skin doesn’t look muscular. But idk how hard that would be to implement.

I get the argument you are trying to make. But it is censorship to tell an author they can’t write something because someone may find it offensive. And it doesn’t violate CoC because this is an NPC referring to another NPC, who are both fictional and don’t represent real people.

That said. Do you have any thoughts on the matter?

I think we have all made our points. Can this thread be closed before it turns into a flame war?

I 100% get the distinction and agree with it. But it was a twisting of my point that some tasks are easier. Sorry just needed to clarify. I never said the entry price to PvP was low or lower than PvE. So I am not sure why the point need be made. EDIT: I don’t know why the suggestion that PvP isn’t objectively harder than PvE has caused this much debate. I see all your points, I never said it was easier, I never said it isn’t often harder, I simply made the point that some PvE content is harder than some PvP content. Therefor, PvP isn’t necessarily harder than PvE by default. Is the floor higher, of course, is the ceiling higher? Perhaps. But there is a lot more content in PvE than there is in PvP. Which means there are plenty of examples of situations where PvE could be harder than your average PvP encounter. What’s so hard with understanding that? I’ve played both extensively, more PvE lately than PvP because I don’t see the value anymore in PvP. It costs more than it’s worth and the mechanics in PvP are dumb, (I mean DR? C’mon…) So I prefer PvE now, though I will skirmish some friends from time to time. Anyways… getting a little off topic… sorry if I offended anyone with my opinions on the matter. But, respectfully, I stand by them and haven’t seen any argument that has swayed that opinion in any way. So how about, out of mutual respect, we finally just agree to disagree?

Congratulations to the winners! 😁

Wow dude I don’t think I ever said PvP was easy or easier than PvE. I said there are tasks that are harder in one and in the other. And before you say ganking a noob in PvP isn’t a PvP task, this has already been covered as such several times in several threads. It’s the easiest thing to do in PvP and people definitely find enjoyment out of it. So I used it as an example of an easy PvP task. Because it’s easy, and it’s a PvP task. I never said the entry fee was lower or equivalent. As a matter of fact I even said the entry fee wasn’t worth it for PvP, earlier in this same thread. I did say one isn’t objectively harder than the other because by matter of fact it heavily depends on what you are doing. Which I used examples to point out. It seems I’m have ruffled some feathers here with my opinions. So I’ll stop. Y’all have fun! 🙂

I suppose maybe at the highest echelon. But it depends on what you consider good. Just being able to complete missions and story arcs doesn’t mean you are “good” at PvE, for example. There is solo, team play, speed runs, master runs, personal challenges (like trying to 5-man Hami), to consider here. You know? There are various levels of skill in both PvP and PvE and someone who is “good” at PvP isn’t necessarily “good” at PvE and vice versa. But, again, to be a top 10 PvPer consistently is probably harder. Therefor, at the highest echelon, I could see the argument that it is harder to be good at PvP.

Bud... its a work of fiction. It is an expression from a fictional character about how he sees another fictional character. There is no way anyone should ever get offended about what a fictional character says to or about another fictional character. You can have your opinions about that fictional character, but it wasn't said as a commentary about all women or even a specific real woman. It is a fictional woman, and this fictional man thinks she is "dressed like a harlot". It isn't a reflection of the authors true opinions, it is simply a reflection of that fictional man's opinion of a fictional woman. I said fictional a lot to drive home the point that this game isn't real and any content therein can't be considered a statement about real people.

To be clear I agree that PvP is often harder than PvE. But the whole PvP is harder than PvE fails as an argument because it isnt true in all cases. If you keep comparing 8v8 decked out PvP players vs radio missions then yes I can see where you are getting that conclusion. But that isnt the entirety of PvP in this game. Just the other day I went 29 and 0 vs a hand full of non-decked out players who wanted to give PvP a try. Was that hard for me to do? No, not even close. Am I the best PvPer out there? No, not even close. Would I suck at 8v8, I have tried it and I agree it can be very difficult. But is it the hardest thing I have ever done in this game? Not in my opinion, once you figure out the general strategy and have a good team that knows what they are doing. Therefor... PvP is not always harder than PvE, so PvP cant then be objectively harder. It depends on the circumstance. Is it often harder? Yes. Is it always harder? No. That is the point.

I have said this before. In a different thread. It didn't go well.

Again… your opinion. Breathe bud, it’s an Internet forum not life or death. Clearly you think it’s easier to complete the Aeon SF than to gank a noob, that’s okay, that’s your opinion. In your opinion. Guys, this isn’t a hard concept.

This is by definition an opinion and not an objective fact. It is essentially apples and oranges. The powers don't even work the same in PvP vs PvE. The goal's are different, the playstyle is different, etc etc. But, in my opinion, one isn't necessarily harder than the other. Depends on the situation and the content in each that you are comparing. Council Radios vs 8v8 Kickball? Yeah PvP probably has the edge there. Aeon SF vs Ganking Noobs in RV? Aeon SF is harder. We probably wont see eye to eye on this. And that is okay! That's the beauty of opinions, you are allowed to have yours, and I mine.

anticipation builds…

Lol this was a joke, I even did a tongue face… let’s not spin things out of context. The fact that the PvP designation has had an impact on Indom’s population is in no way meant to be a reflection on the character of PvPers. It’s a reflection on natural human tendencies. If I am new to a game I rarely ever pick the PvP server to set up camp. This isn’t because I am scared of PvP or the PvPers. It’s because I don’t prefer it. The way this game handles PvP is different from many of the other MMOs out there (old or new): SWTOR (actually just found out SWTOR PvP server doesn’t exist anymore… hmm wonder why…) WoW ESO EVE Guild Wars Age of Conan etc etc All of those have open world PvP. So when you join a PvP server it implies open world PvP. CoH doesn’t have open world PvP, but when new players hear that Indom is the PvP server and they don’t want to PvP, what do you think their natural inclination is going to be? When you combine that with its now low population it’s not going to have a whole lot of draw at its current state. My argument is that it has an impact. A significant one when you extrapolate it over time. Of course it’s not THE ONLY impact but it is an impact. But, again… agree to disagree.

Umm… several DAYS… not weeks, months, years. Let’s stop playing up that few day delay as though it would have a major impact on server population over the past 3 years. Mac, I like you and often refer to your advice and other points on these forums, and on discord, but I am afraid on this matter I entirely disagree. Let’s just leave it at that. First, PvP threatens PvE in no way whatsoever. Second, your comment implies you believe PvPers to be superior to PvEers in some way. PvP in this game is no harder than PvE and the players that PvP aren’t any better at the game. They are entirely different and one isn’t greater than the other. Period. Let’s keep this civil please and not start getting snarky and elitist.

Confuse is fine and already has a multitude of uses that a lot of players don't even realize: 1) Confuse the FF Generators (or those that summon them) from Skyraiders or Malta and your TEAM gets the benefit of the FF not the Skyraiders or Malta. 2) Confuse the Cairn, Swam Fungi, and Quartz (or those that summon them) from Devouring Earth and your TEAM gets the benefit not the Devouring Earth. 3) Confuse Carnies and they endurance drain their allies instead of you when they die. 4) Confuse a Master Illusionist and her pets attack her allies, not your team. 5) Confuse speeds up clear times! 6) etc 7) etc So, yeah... confuse is fine.

Do you remember the thread? Because now I am immensely curious.

I will say I appreciate all of your effort with this. I try to participate whenever I can. Keep in mind there is a large portion of the population in Indom that avoid Hami because of one person. We all know who that one person is. A lot of drama went down and it made a lot of people very angry, and thus the idea of HAMI became a bit repellent. There are more than enough people on Indom to run HAMI multiple times a night, just need to find a way to overcome the resistance to it. Outside of Hami I can say that GOAT does our best to run Task Force Tuesday and Farming Friday every week. They are both fairly popular. On top of this we try to remain as helpful and courteous as possible to everyone on the server. I know a few there including myself that are doing our best to keep the players Indom currently has and grow the “new player” base. The “unofficial PvP” (and all that may imply) combined with its low population make the server fairly repellent. Even though a lot of the PvPers left for excelsior because there are more victims players there. 😛 More community events outside of Hami will certainly help grow the player base as well as raising awareness on the forums like this thread is doing. The players on Indom are some of the best I’ve ever played with and I am sure a lot of Indom would agree. We have a strong and passionate core player base and are far more laid back than I think people realize. So, I invite anyone to come on over and join us, have some fun, have a lot of laughs, and maybe… just maybe… there will be cake.

I don’t think the PvP designation drove everyone away, I think it is the reason the population started lower and remains lower. EDIT: To clarify, the current perceived population decline is not a result of the designation. But, the designation doesn’t help to attract new players. It is repellent to growth. Hence why Indom has always been one of the lowest populated servers and remains so to this day.

That graph absolutely does not show that torchbearer lost more than indom without a past reference to compare it against. Like the below screenshots taken in November 2020: My reference point would suggest that: no torchbearer has not “lost more than indom” but I won’t go so far as to say it is proof because it’s just a couple days taken out from 2 years ago. But, it does show a frame of reference… EDIT: I thought it went without saying but then again these forums never do, so: The graphs actually show that indom may have lost MORE than torchbearer over time. In fact the screenshots I provided further enforce the idea that the migration to excel has gotten worse and could be a direct result of the actions the dev team took way back when to encourage people on to other servers. They also further suggest that Indom has been suffering for population for quite some time and it has only gotten worse. And to your fist point. It doesn’t matter at what point in time he meant, the point is more people play on torchbearer than do on indom at any given time and during peak times they have nearly double the population of indom which means on any given day a significant amount more people play on torchbearer than do indom. Like I said earlier we can go back and forth on this forever. So how about we just agree to disagree as to the root cause?

This is what I was saying earlier. May have gotten missed. I see no issue with an auto rez or at least a prompt that says something like “Rise of the Phoenix would like to revive you” and you can say yes or no. If you say yes, the death doesn’t count but maybe the effect is lessened (doesn’t do as much damage). If you say no, then it goes back to its original state. This will make those self revives less skippable imo. Because they will quite literally save you a death.

Easy: 1) You’re wrong, Torchbearer at its peak has nearly double the population of Indomitable. Not “barely higher”. Edit: Picture added. 2) I will quote you on this one: That effort to split the load didn’t help Indomitable so much because well… PvP server.

Lol appreciate it!