Marbing

The supply is fine as is. I have never had any issues. Get some Merits and you will be fine. Making highly valuable enhancements more available is only going to A) break the market and B) make it that much easier to play a game that is already super easy. I say buff the content, make the game harder, not just stronger enemies but complex scenarios as well.

I appreciate the feedback, but I guess we will agree to disagree. No I have never been not picked for a team because I am a Corruptor or picked over a Corruptor because I am a Defender. That isn't the point, the point is that they fill the same role and that in that role Defenders are objectively better. I don't believe in nerfs to improve balance I believe in buffs, so nerfing IO procs just to help other ATs be more viable would leave a bad taste in my mouth. I would prefer that changes be made to those AT's to help them stand out in different ways. Also, you mentioned one of the very few powersets where a Corruptor shines over a defender, that is Kinetics. That is the only situation where a Corruptor can take advantage of there higher damage cap, otherwise they would have to rely on an outside source (another Support toon) to get there, and in those limited situations, yes a Corruptor is going to out damage a Defender. You keep mentioning the Scourge crits like they are potent. They are not very potent and can't be relied upon as a consistent source of damage. They aren't Scrapper crits which can go off whenever, they only have a chance (and a small one at that until the target is basically dead anyways) to actually go off. I hesitate to change the Scourge mechanic though because it could swing the pendulum too far. Yes I have made suggestions about the Scourge mechanic (in replies to other people) but my main suggestion isn't related to Scourge. Though I did just have what I think is a good idea in my reply to GraspingVileTerror that Scourge could be changed to a smoother sliding scale to give it more presence earlier in the fight. That may be just enough to set them apart. Maybe you don't like that idea either and maybe you are of the camp that nothing needs to be done, that is fine. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on that. Corruptors and Defenders are my favorite AT to play, I like playing support. The more I have played them though the more I have realized that when it comes to team and solo play, there isn't much reason to pick a Corruptor over a Defender. There just isn't. A Defender can be made to do everything a Corruptor can do, but not vice versa. It simply shouldn't be that way. Something does need to be done, in my opinion. Maybe the buff to de-buffs isn't the answer, that is fine too. I am okay with that. But, something does need to be done. I am of the camp that believes in buffs, not nerfs. So I don't want to nerf something else simply to help Corruptors. That, I believe, would be the wrong approach. I could be in the minority there, though. Anyways, again, I do love the discussion and the suggestions. Thank you for your feedback! 🙂 I think the bottom line problem here is that Defenders have options at their disposal to make up for their lower damage that help bring them very close or surpass a Corruptors perceived damage advantage. A Corruptor on the other hand has NO options to make up for their lower buffs/de-buffs and are never going to be as sturdy as a Defender, they can get close in limited cased but it takes a heck of a lot of investment. That is a problem that needs to be looked it, in some way or fashion.

Or maybe Scourge is changed in that it always has a chance to go off but the bonus damage starts out small (something like 10%) and increases to something larger as the target gets lower in health up to 100% bonus damage? I think that would smooth the curve a bit and definitely make Scourge more useful early on.

First: No, my suggestion wouldn't make Defenders pointless. They would still be the superior support AT in terms of their support powers overall and to be clear they should be, it is their primary ability. Second: Corruptors do not, in fact, do more damage than a Defender. Even in a team environment. With most builds a Defender has more flexibility (because of their survivability) to slap in LOADS of procs that help them match / pass Corruptors damage output. Remember their BASE damage isn't much lower than a Corruptors and Procs hit more consistently than scourge does. If you want to load the same amount of procs on a Corruptor you are sacrificing something that the Defender doesn't have to sacrifice and that is usually survivability. There are plenty of people who have tested this and confirmed that at high level content, with incarnates and IO's, a Defender can easily surpass a Corruptor. Thus making the Corruptor nearly pointless later in the game. If a team is in need of a support toon, what reason would they take a Corruptor over a Defender? This wasn't an issue when there was a clear red/blue line. Because Corruptors were what you got on red side for support, they served a purpose. Now, they simply get left behind. As I said in my OP, Corruptors do have niche use. In lower level content they DO get their powers sooner, so the argument keeps being made that blah blah they get their powers sooner and so at mid-level content they are great. And, that is true. But that is a very niche use and lets be honest it doesn't put them leaps and bounds ahead of Defenders at mid-level content either, it just means they get their harder hitting attacks sooner where as a Defender gets their more potent buffs/de-buffs sooner. Third: Think about it like this. If you want to add a support toon on your team you have a choice between Controller, Defender, Corruptor, and Mastermind. You have a reason to pick Controller over Defender because they bring something different to the table, control. You have a reason to pick a Mastermind over a Defender because they bring a different kind of versatility in the form of pets (which can do some massive damage and cause tons of chaos!). Right now there isn't much of a reason to pick a Corruptor over a Defender. They both do the same thing but the Defender just overall does it better. That is the problem that needs to be solved. You can say more damage more damage more damage all day but the fact is that just isn't true in most cases, especially late game, and when it is true... it's far too often negligible. Don't get me wrong, Scourge is a fun mechanic, but it often results in massive overkill instead of pure DPS. My suggestion would level the playing field just a bit by giving Corruptors a thematically appropriate edge over a Defender in more situations than currently exist without completely eliminating the need for a Defender. I do like some of the others suggestions on this thread and appreciate all the feedback! Giving them equivalent power pool effects is also a great idea, as it would help give their builds similar flexibility to a Defender. Changing the Scourge mechanic I have also considered. Something like a CRITICAL de-buff or maybe the de-buffs get stronger the lower health the target has! That would be a cool idea...

Doing some testing and seeing pylon results have swayed my opinion on this. Defenders definitely can and often do out damage Corruptors and maintain better survival. The issue is the damage from Scourge is inconsistent and often overkill compared with Vigilance's 30% flat damage buff, coupled with Defenders having significantly better de-buffs. When you add those together with more slot freedom to load in the procs on a Defender, then its even more of a problem that makes Corruptors less and less relevant the later you get in levels and the more influence you have to build them out. The change I have suggested would take care of one of the issues and fits thematically, without simply giving Corruptors a flat damage boost. I think it would really help the higher base damage and Scourge on a Corruptor shine over a Defender without making a Defender irrelevant. The problems with those sets getting picked over others doesn't get solved with nearly anything you could reasonably do to give Corruptors a boost. You don't want Corruptors out buffing Defenders, that wouldn't make sense thematically nor conceptually. The buff sets will always be better on a Defender. If your main intention is to play Empathy over doing damage then you should be creating a Empathy Defender anyways. If you only want Empathy thematically but like the idea of Scourge then you can create a Corruptor, knowing you won't be as effective as a Defender. As it stands right now it isn't unrealistic for an Empathy Defender to out damage an Empathy Corruptor and have better heals/buffs (depending on the ranged set they chose). My change wouldn't change this. However, you do raise a good point in that it may make that gap (for the purely buff sets specifically) more obvious and glaring. But, maybe that's okay? People say Sonic Blast pretty much sucks on everything except a Defender, for example, as is. While I am of the camp that Sonic Blast should be made better, the problem is that anything done to make the set better would further emphasize that Sonic Blast is superior on a Defender, because it would inevitably apply to them as well. It is an interesting conundrum. EDIT: Now that I have pointed out Sonic Blast it made me realize something. My recommended change would make Sonic Blast more viable on a Corruptor. Food for thought.

We need more difficult content. Not difficult necessarily because of super hard to kill AV's or mobs, but more cool game mechanics that require a well put together and knowledgeable team to accomplish.

So I would like to have feedback on this idea. I certainly could be overlooking something and if so let me know. Most people I have spoken to seem to agree that Defender > Corruptor overall. Again this may not be true entirely, but it feels like the general consensus in my experience. *(I know my one experience is not the be all end all of experience) Anyways, Corruptors seem to have a role problem. Where exactly do they fit? Defenders are better at support and can match them and in a lot of cases surpass them in damage output. This isn't saying Corruptors are useless, not at all. It is simply that it seems they serve a very niche role. Keep in mind this is coming from a person who has played both Corruptors and Defenders EXTENSIVELY since the beginning of Corruptors. So, I had this idea based purely on the name of the AT: Corruptor. Corruptor says to me, really strong de-buffs, aka corrupting a target or targets. I am not saying they should have stronger de-buffs than a Defender. But, I would suggest that (for de-buffs only) they should be equal. This gives a clearer edge to Corruptors in damage output as well as gives them a better place among team play, and also helps distinguish them further from Controllers and Masterminds in terms of their support abilities. To be clear, their buffs would remain the same as they are now (which is weaker than a Defender) but their de-buffs would be brought to the same level as a Defender. Again, I could be missing something and this could throw things out of whack. If that is the case please point that out. Otherwise, I think this could be a good change that would be just enough of a nudge to give Corruptors more of a clearly defined role. Also it is possible that this suggestion isn't even possible. I would like to know. Or maybe this suggestion just isn't the right fit? If so, what other things do you think could be done to more clearly define the Corruptor and give the AT just a little bit of love? Does it need any adjustments at all? Look forward to hearing some constructive feedback! 🙂

This.

Oh I wish I had known this! I started on Indom and have some friends on that server... hmm

OMG HEY! 😄 Wow... it's been a long time...

I was in Renaissance de la Veritas (Gravoc), so I must concur.

Brilliant!

All solid points, I hope you don't take my skepticism as an attack. You have obviously thought this out very well. I think lowering to Mag 2 is a good idea. I will admit I didn't think about the benefit to dominators, I like this idea a lot more now that you mentioned that. It gives Ice dominators a reason to choose the power and another way to build domination. The more I think about this I realize one of the reasons ice has issues with alpha is the fact that flash freeze does damage first then sleeps. That first tick of damage alerts the enemies and allows them to get in an attack before the sleep takes hold. (I could be mistaken but I believe that is how it works). If you remove that upfront damage all together you'd negate any immediate retaliatory alpha strikes. Then those ice formations do damage once they are destroyed (as you said) so you aren't losing any damage just backloading it. You could wake them up yourself with Shiver (assuming you added a minor cold damage component to it) thus creating a decent little combo. I really like the change to flash freeze you propose, overall it would make the set infinitely more interesting even if you changed nothing else. Sleep attacks are so vanilla as it is. I can only think of one that is useful and unique (Static Field) and this would add another useful/unique sleep power to the game and draw more people to consider Ice Control.

Absolutely! If it can be done I am a fan, just more hoping it could be. 🙂 I would say I am on the fence about it because I don't want to swing the pendulum too far and make the set over perform. I think it's weaknesses with alpha were likely intended, given how it shines as the fight rolls on. I do agree that it is too potent a weakness and it needs to be addressed but with this change plus the changes you suggest to flash freeze it may be too effective. Hence why I suggested maybe a -dmg in shiver so that it deadens the blow across the entire spawn who will already be struggling to get out of the ice cubes they are stuck in. They will waste thier alpha to get out of flash freeze and then (especially the minions) do less damage on thier next volley. That is, if arctic air hasn't confused them by then. So, again, on the fence about a 50% mag 3 hold. May be too potent. But still open to the idea. 🙂 As for any dmg added to the set, you can place it in shiver or it can be an added bonus combo affect like gravity has. That would work too.

I agree there are some power sets where AA is going to take you over the top and others where it may be less useful. Elec control will have awesome synergy with TA (it already has good synergy as is) going forward. You can light your own OSA and AA is taking your end drain to the next level allowing you to floor the enemy end faster! Can you tell I am excited?

Yeah my Elec/TA controller is lots of fun, I definitely recommend it. Even before these buffs! Jolting Chain + OSA is an awesome combo!

Hello! Cool to be noticed! 😎 I read through your changes and the flash freeze idea is very creative but may be too complicated to implement? Not sure. If they can pull it off it would be an awesome and welcome change to the set to help mitigate alpha which the set sorely needs. I get that this is a control over time set but that doesn't mean you should HAVE to take a -tohit secondary to have some way to mitigate a mega alpha strike. It's not unreasonable to ask that a controller be able to actually do some controlling before he/she is blasted into the dirt. On that note, not sure I like shiver as a hold... even a chance for hold. (Though I wouldn't entirely rule it out) What about a big -dmg debuff? Much like the aura in ice armor (Chilling Embrace) but maybe more potent. That way if they do alpha you (or your team) it's for significantly less dmg? This would make sense, too. Though if you made the changes to flash freeze and then this you would effectively neuter any alpha strike which may be swinging the pendulum a bit too far? As for adding dmg to the set, I like shiver having a dmg component to it, I'd even be fine with it being moderate level dmg too! Though that may be pushing it. It makes sense and gives the set a nice AoE hit. I just don't want that to affect the recharge if the power... I get that controller sets aren't supposed to do a lot of damage but I don't think there is an Ice controller out there that wouldn't respond with "Yeah... But I mean... c'mon man!!".

I understand. But still, ANY extra end drain on a toon that already does a lot of end drain is overkill. But it isn't just that, all the other changes are going to make TA much more potent. So, still, very excited. 🙂

I can't wait for my Elec/TA to get these buffs. I already do -end like a boss, and on top of that Acid Arrow and Disruption arrow are now going to destroy mobs end too. Plus, EMP arrow... Yeesh. I already have tons of fun on the toon (and haven't run into another Elec/TA... dare I say ever? Which will probably change after this update) but now it's going to be insane!

Avid TA user here, so already knew this and understand. Also understood. Yes a few things don't make sense thematically, and as I said not really a big deal. Just those things bother me, sort of a stickler for details like that. If it stayed AoE maybe you wouldn't need to spam it? But I do see your point and it is valid. Thank you for the explanation, the decision makes a little more sense now.

Sorry there seems to be some miscommunication here. I said I liked all of the other changes. So disruption arrow wouldn't need to go back to a lower -res. Please don't put words in my mouth (or in my fingers I guess in this case?) You can still get your -40% from disruption. BUT get this (as it stands with these suggested changes), you cast ANOTHER arrow (Entangling arrow) to get a bit more on a single target. So you aren't solving the "problem" of using 2 arrows to get your full debuff. So again, what harm is there in putting -res back in acid arrow? It can do -res to that target and maybe the splash targets get less or maybe none. However you wanna work that out. Point is: it makes zero sense in a rope arrow and keeping it in entangling arrow or moving it back to acid arrow doesn't change the fact you need two arrows to get the full affect. Anyways, it's been fun! Obviously you guys / gals know better than me. There must be something I am missing. TA is still going to be much better with the suggested changes. It's just, objectively, a stretch thematically to suggest -res in a rope arrow without giving an explanation as to how a rope lowers someone resistance. Change the description, change the name, or remove it and add it back to acid arrow. Those are my suggestions to make sense thematically. Not a big deal, overall.

I never said don't do the revamp. Everything else still stays. Just keep the -res in acid arrow and don't add it to entangling arrow. That's the main point here. Simple.

Oops, seem to have ruffled some feathers there. My bad. My change was more meant out of having things make sense (-def makes more sense than -res, but it could easily just go back to -rech and move the -res to acid arrow). Also, your statement "-res is hard to come by" makes 0% sense in this context since I didn't say REMOVE it entirely I said to MOVE it to Acid Arrow. (Thus you are not missing any -res) But...details, details... am I right?

Ahh, okay.

Does it say that in the description now?