WindDemon21

Regarding the proc rates, the 100% proc rate on all attacks should be the baseline which is a bit of what the last few posts have been saying truly. Before this beta patch, I already calculated that the power was doing a lot less damage than a standard rain power until there were about 2 enemies left. Now it might be bumped to 3 from what I tested, but that was also already assuming a 100% proc rate, using the fastest attacks in the set as well, (ie using gust as much as possible to proc cell in the calculation) In real fights, the procs will hit minnions that it doesn't need to since regular aoes will end up killing them ie wasted, or even when the mob is low, will hit the target you're already going to kill with your direct strike/cloud burst etc, so that proc damage is wasted as well versus rains which are still hitting all other targets. What 100% proc rate with more strikes going out will allow for that proc damage to average out better (and be visually awesome), even if the damage had to be lowered to compensate (though which isn't currently the case) I think while it's nice and I do like the mitigation from them, there are also major disadvantages to storm blast, cell, and c5 that other sets don't deal with (cell being needed for the other powers to have secondary effects, the end cost on cell, it doing nothing if you don't use your storm powers and try to use your other powers, the damage being low until the fight drags out, no way to nuke/start the alpha strike consistently enough if the mob requires it before you're attacked/mezzed so you can't get the procs out etc), fyi they get noticed if you try to start with jet stream and attack/mez/kill you so you can't get more attacks out after if you try to start with that), so their advantages should even out with the downsides, rather than under-powering on both sides. I think we should baseline the attacks to 100% rate, reduce chain to 12end/rech, and then balance cell around there, though I feel that would be pretty much where the balance would be at that point. Then regarding intensify, it still just seems out of place as a 90s click power, obviously the benefit of the extra procs would have no point, so still see the power becoming an auto or more rage-like perm-able power.

Right, I'm all for helping the ST on elec melee, but not at the cost of the main aoe power. Elecs aoe was *fine* because of that, with this huge nerf though, the little extra ST it gets, esp for the end cost, isn't worth the huge 2/3 cut on the aoe from that, since it was the sets only kinda "true" aoe. If it compensates elsewhere again, ok, but not as is.

Testing isn't needed when the damage on the single target is bumped up a little, but a big reduction is done in aoe. Changing around a whole power set or mechanic is one thing, completely reducing aoe on an aoe atttack to almost nothing is another BIG thing that explains itself.

Right i'm definitely not saying the set didn't need help there, but that is a BIG cost there, but woudl be a good move if they compensated by increasing chains cap from 5 to 10, or making jacob's ladder a better cone/more targets like power crash (stj's cone really needs this too in addition to the bigger aoe on spinning strike) Edit: but also to seriously clarify the point that, doing that would help the melee version, but blaster/dom/epic versions NEED the aoe from the power, they don't need it for single target damage. So doing this for all versions of the power is just extra terribly stupid. If you need to call it a different name in those other versions then do that, but do not pass this version to those by all means, and compensate the aoe loss in the melee version via chain or jacobs.

Its absolutely absurd, there is no reason to pass all versions to suck even more. Even the melee version isn't that great aoe but at least its more and inherent KD. They should all be more focused on this, not make the aoe on them even worse wth!? Edit: which blaster/dom versions already don't need, where they need the aoe, and melee versions still need the aoe more and it's worth enough to use as a ST filler if needed. Seriously, this better not roll out to live like this, and needs to be fixed to be more aoe damage focused on the non-melee versions. This is absolutely absurd... I could see a small part of helping out ST on elec melee, I could see this more if maybe the target cap on chain induction was increased to 10 instead of 5 to compensate then. TBH if they did that, I actually would like that better for the melee version of this power, but only if they upped chain induction. (without changing other stats) But yeah the dom and blaster versions ONLY need the aoe from this power, they don't need single target damage from it at ALL. So definitely don't "consistency pass" this like that lord have mercy... Epic versions too, they need the aoe from it, not as a single target. And they should all be inherent KD (slottable to kb if desired)

Um, can we also PLEASE not do this. This power NEEDS to be more aoe damage based, not more on the single target. Please keep the more damage on the aoe. this is a HUGE nerf to it's aoe damage and needs to keep the larger benefit to it's aoe. DO NOT DO THIS!!! This consistency pass should be to make all versions what the melee already was, more of an aoe attack. DO NOT DO THIS!!!! Edit: SERIOUSLY, fix the OTHER versions which have crap aoe and knockback to be more aoe damage, but do NOT do this. SERIOUSLY ughhhhhhhhhhhhh! On the radius note too, please fix touch of fear and especially spinning strike as well. 6ft is absurd on a taoe, it's not even the standard 8ft that most regular aoes are which are easier to hit mobs cause they surround you, this never made any sense. Not to mention how spinning strike's animation is even pbaoe, not taoe. These need fixed BADLY. It's easily the number one reason I always tell people to avoid stj (on top of all the st attacks except the tier 9 having way too short of rech to proc anything where they don't need to be that short for how many ST attacks the set has), and even DM on non-tanks as well. They need to be 10ft if staying as taoe. This seems like way too high of an end cost increase as well for nerfing it's aoe on top of it.

I'm seeing a distinct lack of sets for the power too which is a VERY bad move as well. Big problem with the power still is that it has a 2 minute recharge which doesn't start until it's toggled off, so you won't be able to use it every mob even because of that. The rech really should be bumped down to 60s.

That and elec's should have been done DECADES ago... Surprized it hasn't been done here yet.

Problem, then though, the set is just like almost any other, it's basically earth control only worse at that point. The confuse is clearly meant as kinda the niche/crutch power so it really should be working properly for all combos damage or not, or like i said it SHOULD just proc the confuse like static field procs sleep.

Just to clarify/make sure, don't forget to make sure this includes recharge intensive pet sets as well, since, you know, it's more recharge based, and is on a 3 minute timer and REALLY needs the recharge in those sets.

I've noticed this on other aoe sleeps as well. Actually just 20 minutes ago on my earth controller with salt crystals, started the mob with it, but NOTHING happened, nothing at all. It was just me starting the mob, so no damage or anything was affecting it from sleeping the mob. There still seems an inherent issue with the confuse as well where you have to actually damage the mobs in order for the sleep to occur. Any chance, if not just making it work like static field but confuse instead of sleep, which is the best way to go with this power, but if not at LEAST make it so any type of enemy interaction, ie debuffs etc, will also trigger the confuse? I'm betting a lot of testing is being done with arse/traps where acid mortar etc is skewing how much it's doing to confuse, but if you try with a different combo you'll notice, at least I have, that the confuse comes MUCH less often because of the weird "have to damage the enemy" component to making the confuse trigger. Glad the sleep is fixed, but the confuse cannister is easily in the core powers that will be relied upon each mob so it really needs to work.

"You can't compare a powerset that has built in proc damage to a set that does not" Edit" just to clarify pointing out what I was responding to, wasn't that you "asked" but you said it in a manner that assumed the procs were "free" which is where the balance seems to underpower thinking that it's so great, where it can actually end up a detriment if you don't constantly only use your storm powers only. But yeah, that goes to figuring out balancing the power that grants those procs and how the procs work, not the other powers, like chain which can/should be balanced within itself.

That's what you're STILL missing. The set doesn't have "build in proc damage" The set literally has a power DEDICATED to doing that, that you have to get, slot, and use. They are not free procs, which is what it sounds like some people are thinking is the case when it isn't. Could be better, yes that's exactly why were here. Obviously even the devs know that hence trying to fix it, and the track is right, just needs that little more tweak. Do I have extra investment in the set being proper because storms are my favorite thing in the world? Absolutely, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be a really good set, especially with the downsides it inherently offers due to how it works. (slow to get damage starting, need to constantly use storm powers etc)

What it does per damage/aoe/end/rech compared to another aoe. It's not hard. It does only now about normal aoe damage in coomparison, but it has pretty much no useful secondary effect, won't proc, and can miss all or half the mobs based on the chain/missing initial target. No other aoe has all these downsides, and it's end/rech are STILL just now at the same as other aoes. It's just math, and given all the downsides, balance then comes into play that it's still underpowered at that end/rech values versus other aoes that don't have to deal with all the downsides. (This is on the power, there is no need to even bring up that it procs cell/c5, as that is a mechanic OF storm cell/c5, and is actually a detriment meaning those don't proc WITHOUT the power, so the power should be balanced on it's own accord, just as the cell/c5 procs should based on the power themselves, another reason the non-even proc chances on attacks are extra dumb as I've stated in another post on here somewhere) Edit: I'll relay the last paragraph I put above in parenthesis. Testing has been done. Not everyone can get their videos working at the moment, but these are not just patch note theorizing from an inexperienced player/s. But powers should be justifiable and balanced on their own, and SETS should be balanced around their powers, not powers balanced around their sets. This just results in powers that are ineffectively underpowered and either skipped, or in this case "must haves" that are just annoying through and through by being underpowered and also end costly with use. All of this also, doesn't even touch on the topic, that for the set as a whole, basically has to be constantly only using storm powers to proc cell/c5 and basically can't get effective aoe if you have to use your other primary/secondary powers. That alone puts storm at a disadvantage from other sets, in addition to the powers being weaker if cell isn't on (that just happens to not often be the case so fine, but also presents where cell should cost less end/animate faster since it MUST be used at the start of every mob). Which I would gather/played to be about equal to the mitigation the set offers, meaning you pretty much can look at just the damage comparison the set does versus most others. Moving forward on that, ST attacks are more or less balanced (except cloud still having just god awful animation, time to get to target, slow dot, it should still just instantly appear over the targets head, not travel time, it still has dot, and the proc rate for cell/c5 being the same between all attacks. The nuke is rather balanced, no burst damage, longer rech, has to proc, keep enemeis in it, but does more damage over an extended fight. Jet stream is fairly balanced standard cone, which leaves mostly all the balance adjustments between cell, and chain lightning. For reasons pointed out, chain is easier to balance among itself, and is closer now, but still too high on end/rech for all the downsides. Cell is where most of the issues reside as far as "testing" goes. Which to be clear, should be balanced on it's own using the set, not tied to any one power, or having any power weaker in order to balance it. So boost chain to the proper stats acknowledging it's faults of not proccing, basically no secondary effect, missing all/half the mobs (given the bump about 12 end/rech would be pretty fair now), and then balance cell out from that point, which would be about now if chain is fixed for the 12 end/rech, the set would then be right where it should be. (besides the rework of intensify as rage-type or auto power as it really just doesn't work properly as a build up-stat type power)

Obviously storm blast as a whole is better because there were improvements to it, so of COURSE it's going to be improved over the live version, that was never what was being brought up here. That doesn't mean that it's *enough* and is where it should be, just that it's "better." We told you when it was in beta that it wasn't performing properly, but it was rolled out anyway. Now some tweaks are done, which of course is better, but still doesn't mean it's where it should be. Common bait and switch. Regarding the power, and all its many, MANY faults, it would still need the end/rech lowered to about 10-12 each now to account for them. (inability to proc, basically no useful secondary effect esp on the aoe of it, miss all or half the mob if it misses the initial target/chains the wrong way etc)

I mean, i like location powers, but unless the slow is increased enough to be used for the, and the big one, is the initial hit ACTUALLY works when it's cast ie you don't eat the alpha because they're slept then it's fine. But as is, the power was much better as just a click power that placed the sleep patch. For one it actually worked to sleep the mobs without getting return fire, on another, it's not a hefty enough power as is to warrant the location placement versus just a click power that leaves the patch below. I'd much rather it work as it did in build 1 as the click power that left the location patch after and actually worked to sleep the mobs. Edit: if it stays location that's fine enough but it HAS to actually sleep on the initial hit and keep them slept (Still feels like the slow should be upped and -fly added though) Regarding the canister as well, bump to 15% helped and the -kb, even though only to the enemies definitely helped a lot (this should be done for all confuses IMO), was hoping it would be on the enemies themselves in the field like how the -kb applies to them with aoe immobilizes. I think that would have helped to set define the set too as well as helped pairings like the thematic one on doms with arsenal assault letting you use the field to keep KD'd for buckshot/trip mine. Would have been really nice especially with the set not having the aoe immobilize to do that. I'd still see the canister and nitrogen patches (and ice slick/earthquake) as 60s powers being soft control instead of a full stop-attacking hard control like aoe stuns are, which are on 90s timers as well. You still CAN get them perma yeah so it wouldn't OP them or anything but would help QoL on those out a lot especially in the earlier levels. Regarding the confuse as well. If you don't have a set that inflicts damage especially consistently there is an issue with the confuse actually working I've noticed, Seems like the powe would work much better as just a proccing patch like static field mechanics, only confuse. Because if you're not attacking, like if you get held or something, its not doing ANY confuse, and that's a problem. The duration feels like it's too short for what it's doing a lot of the time too, would be fine at 90s if the duration was bumped to 45s. The drone also still keeps staying at range and pulling the mobs apart, which is also very bad. Even if nothing else changes, if the ai could at least be changed to go into melee that would help a lot, though giving it shocking aura or something as a small aoe would help when it does that too. But yeah, largest thing here is making, well regardless of the other parts of the power, making the sleep in sleep grenade actually sleep on the first hit. Right now it kinda does for about .03 seconds and then they're woken up, it didn't do this when it was a target based power. Likewise bumping up the slow to slot-worthy levels would help a lot, right now the slow is just too low. Should be standard slow-levels like caltrops, quicksand, tar patch etc, and have some -fly added cause that REALLY hurts having enemies just fly right out of these in .05 seconds flat. Don't forget as well to fix nitrogen/ice slick/ice patch to accept slow/kb IOs and sets as well. This would also of course help the power out a lot to get more slow and such on the field or use to be a slow + kb power to create a barrier wall. (this should have been corrected a couple patches ago when powers were looked at for their sets they take) Also the Tricannon, still feels a bit too weak as is, but even it's taunt, it says it is 4 targets max, but with testing, it's only taunting 2 enemies at a time max.

FYI, there is also an inherent issue with the defense not stacking from cloaking device and steamy mist/arctic fog/shadow fall. Even with how other stealth toggles don't stack for some odd unknown reason in pve, being from both your primary and secondary, ie not pools, this REALLY doesn't sit right, and they should stack. It also seems like, for a primary power, that the end cost is a big high on cloaking device. Being the same power basically as stealth from the pool, this power still feels unjustifiably inferior for a primary power pick. If you want to keep this power in the set versus a better option, I'd suggest at least lowering the end cost and maybe adding an additional benefit to the power. Also, the -kb, is for some odd reason only when they're confused for their own powers. This still helps at least, but it would have been a lot nicer with this power having the niche of an aoe field that causes the -kb from all forms, not just the enemies. Would have given the set some really nice synergy to have that, and would be a unique power that would offer a lot of control-ability. It still wouldn't be any much different than what aoe immobilizes do, so it shouldn't be out of the question. That is after all one of the main benefits of the aoe immobilizes (grav/elec's need fixed for this as well) This would also help the set actually synergize better with arsenal assault on doms, changing the kb in the powers to KD instead when enemies are inside the gas, rather than just lowering the KB on the confused enemies themselves. (which tbh would be nice to have this added to ALL confused enemies in the game, especially aoe ones) I've noticed personally as well, to prefer the aoe sleep be target based not location unless the slow it provides is bumped up significantly allowing more use for that, but currently the slow is too little to really use as such. I'm ASSUMING it's a bug, but the sleep as this location patch is also not sleeping the enemies right away and takes 4 seconds for a proc to hit. Which is a BIG reason for the target based so you can use it to start the mob while you set up your other stuff which is one of the main uses for sleeps. I've noticed throwing out both the canister and sleep grenade, that they weren't sleeping at ALL, even if I just stood there doing nothing. It seems like a bug with how the -kb effects only the confused enemies kb strength. But with just sleep grenade and smoke canister, they won't sleep at all unless they're also confused. This also obviously needs fixed and CAN'T go live like this. The original target based aoe sleep was much better than this current version and should be fixed back (or built properly so it sleeps the whole mob on cast like static field does. There remains a big issue on nitrogen again, needing to take slow/kb ios and sets. Again especially without the aoe immobilize and low-slow effect on the sleep. As annoying as the slow sets are for some reason all having damage in them with none tailored to actual just SLOW powers only, this would be a good power to use slow sets on to actually incorporate damage on the power as well. It would be a good candidate for the ice mistral set. Again, you know, if these powers actually properly let you slot slow/kb sets into them. Overall with further testing it was honestly better before, but a lot of the issues seem like they HAVE to be bugs now though? The confuse also doesn't seem to be working almost at all now. Before it would at least confuse enemies somewhat consistently, but now i'm hardly seeing any confuses as well with the same slotting. Is THIS a bug? Because I didn't notice that many issues with the enemies confusing before with the first build that went on beta. This set can NOT go live as is though. The 2 main every mob powers are effectively doing almost nothing and they actually both seemed to work on my end before this latest beta patch.

You're right I missed the last update YAY! And the upped -to hit on it great! Still seems like it should have a 60s rech for how much you'll be using this as soft control/debuff versus an actual hard control like the aoe stun which is on a 90s timer. Likewise as mentiond for ice slick/e-quake, and nitrogen being on the 60s time instead of 90. Now to also get the -damage and -fly moved/added to sleep grenade, base acc increased on canister, and the tweak to the pet and the set would be looking good! Edit: so the -kb is only the strength of the confused enemies, not applied TO the targets in the field like it is with aoe immobilizes. This should be corrected so that the -kb applies to the targets within the field.

Exactly. Coming here to relax and have fun is why I keep coming back here and stop playing most any other game. And again when there is literally every other harder content out there, there is no reason to take away the enjoyment that many of us get from just these two options. That is after all what the game is here for, to have fun, and there should be more stuff like that in the 50+ stuff. There is plenty other harder stuff for people who have fun doing the harder stuff.

This doesn't work though, because even by the time you get to it, it only takes one idiot to click the glowie and make it so that toon can never get the mission again in a real world setting. Radios are the only main answer to this to get repeatable missions that are similar. Oro doesn't work because for some odd reason you still can't invite to your team after it's started even though you can with AE. AE doesn't work as well either for many reasons, confined location is kinda one, maps can be changed, lost, etc. Radios are the only answer to have some easier fun content that doesn't have to be super annoying. Leave them alone. Change council/cot for anything else sure, but not radios. Edit: See above

You're right there were several "assumed" factors that should have been obvious here. That being one of them. Another, is that when you do them lower, sure maybe you'll survive, but there is also an issue/fun factor of the mobs also not just dying that much faster either. It's more fun having the battle last a little longer to kill them but getting rewarded with the better exp/influence by doing so. What's not fun is doing +1s and/or smaller team size where your aoes don't impact as much, and the mobs die too fast to really use your powers. What's also not fun is dying constantly or the fight taking longer because you're so debuffed/incapacitated that it's just a pain. Again, literally everything else is tougher, let these two in radios only be.

They're not "brainless" in the sense that we have mastered our build and fully IO'd the build out in order to achieve that. There is literally again, every other content that is more difficult. If you don't like the "brainless" then go do literally everything else that exists besides council/cot in radios only.

The -fly in the aoe sleep and -kb in canister will go a long way, and of course slotting slow/kb sets into nitrogen. Then the bumped up 20% unenhanceable -to hit in canister and moving the -damage to the sleep would also help set signature with actually useful debuffs too.

I could have sworn smoke canister was on a 60s rech but admit I didn't lay there much attention to it but this does seem like a spot where it should have a 60s recharge IMO. Even ice slick/ earthquake have always seemed like they should have had a 60s recharge too tbh as would liquid nitrogen. So changes: Sleep grenade: -damage moved here, -fly added Smoke cannister: -kb added. rech lowered to 60s, -to hit bumped to 20% unenhanceable (or 15% enhanceable but for how much confuse slotting youll do hard to get -to hit slotted so better option is the 20% unenhanceable. Less max value but easier on slotting, fearsome stare has this amount, spectral terror does too, so its not out of the ordinary and the set could use it.) Edit: increase base acc as well to help with pseudopet failings. Liquid nitrogen: rech lowered to 60s and enhance able for slow/kb ios and sets. (Fix this for ice slick/patch/earthquake too) I think they should change these and see how the set feels then. It should be in a much better spot while still not having immobilize. Damage still sub-par but should help to keep them in the patches much better and debuff better to offset that more. Also coding confuse/fear to cause containment would go a FAR way to helping the damage on controllers for this (and mind) so not sure why that hasn't been done yet. Honestly these changes done even without coding confuse/fear for containment for now at least and I'd be pretty happy with the set. That and give the pet a fast cone attack and/or better shocking aura and make him always melee so the taunt actually helps more.

I still think the -to hit on smoke canister needs to be increased to 15%, or even better since you have to slot it for so much confuse 20% but not slottable, and the - damage in the aoe hold which will get used so less often should be moved to the sleep grenade as well. With all the issues the set really did need - fly added to the sleep grenade too, and -kb added to the confuse canister so enemies don't kb themselves out of it. Since the set for some odd reason must not have an aoe immobilize and they refuse to just put in a slow field with pull in, these should at least be done to help. And let us slot nitrogen/ ice slick/ ice patch for slows and kb enh/ sets! That should already be obvious to help and should have been done for ice slick and patch DECADES ago...