Bopper

Certainly, he had reasons for incorporating the communities suggestions. The only thing we know for certain is we never saw this implementation in action despite it having the closest thing to a mathematically justified concept.

That is exactly why. The argument was people wanted to be able to control their expected performance without having other players negatively impact it with their buffs.

My guess is there will be extra damage from extra KB. Maybe implementing something similar to damage you get from falling, the harder you're knocked back to the earth, the harder damage you take. But that's just a Hail Mary guess

After getting to reread Phil "Synapse" initial proposal for PPM mechanics again, I was reminded of a few things I forgot to mention with my initial post. Synapse proposed using the Total Recharge in the power when calculating Proc probability, which I mentioned in my first suggestion. However I forgot to mention the fact Synapse also proposed increasing the PPM values of all the procs (this mostly didn't happen with the version we have now, but there were a couple of procs that got a minor bump up). Also, Synapse's proposal would have used the actual Area Factor (not the dampened one). So if we revisit the original proposal by Synapse vs. the version we have now, the formulas would look like this: Synapse: Prob = (1.5*PPM) * [Cast + BaseRch / (1 + Enhanced + Global)] / 60 / [1 + Rad * (11*Arc + 540) / 30000] Current: Prob = (PPM) * [Cast + BaseRch / (1 + Enhanced)] / 60 / [1 + 0.75*Rad * (11*Arc + 540) / 30000] So AoE would get hurt more by the increased AoE. All powers would get hurt by the use of global recharge, but would benefit from a 50% increase in PPM values.

For everyone, it is worth reading the entirety of that thread (there are more than 20 pages of comments, but still good to read the history of these changes being discussed). As @Faultline mentioned in the above post, what he linked to was Synapse's initial proposal, which was using a power's total recharge (BaseRch/(1 + Enhance+Global). He also suggested the PPM of the procs at the time would get a 50% increase. This was all said in April, before i24 beta happened. It was theorycraft at the time. Read through the rest of the thread and you'll see adjustments being made, where folks argued global recharge would negatively impact builds, because they can't predict performance if a Kin blasts them with speed boost. A minimum proc chance was later defined to incorporate the value of the PPM in its formula. Basically, what made it to Beta was the compromises made and discussed in that thread (later on). We use enhanced recharge instead of global, Area Factor got dampened by 0.75x, and the PPMs never increased by 50% (some might have increased slightly, but they're in the minority). So long story longer, the PPM system we're using now is what was intended by Synapse in the sense he designed what went into the i24 Beta (which I think was August of that year, right before shutdown). Either way, he intended to change how Proc mechanics worked. However, the system never escaped Beta due to the shutdown, so it is very likely the PPM system we have now would not have been the one that would've went live in i24, as I'm sure many iterative tweaks would have been done during Beta (like we see now). So here are the formulas from that day in April 2012 versus what was on Beta later in August 2012: April 2012 Prob = (1.5*PPM) * [Cast + BaseRch/(1 + Enhance + Global)] / 60 / [1 + Rad*(11*Arc+540)/30000] Aug 2012 Prob = (PPM) * [Cast + BaseRch/(1 + Enhance)] / 60 / [1 + 0.75*Rad*(11*Arc+540)/30000]

😲

This is something I'm curious with the Sentinel, which is how aggressive is it with its power? The numbers show a 3s recharge, so ideally it would be spammed every 4 seconds. If it's doing that, then it would be preferred to let the sentinel spam while I focus on other powers. The exception to that might be the AI in Sentinel not changing targets. Ideally it would spread the debuff as much as possible, however I wouldn't be surprised if it keeps hitting the same targets over and over again. If that's the case, then I could see the desire of manually spreading out the debuff, but it would be a lot of work for an already active set.

I felt the same about questions being answered repeatedly, yet were somehow not being answered due to semantics. I don't know how to give a rebuttal when you gave the rebuttal in your argument. But no, tanks and Brutes don't have same survivability. Not only do tanks have greater modifiers in healing, defense, resistance, and HP (which makes it easier to reach soft/hard limits) they also have higher caps in max HP and Absorb. So mathematically, they do not have the same potential. That said, I'm moving on. As much as I love a good flame war, focused feedback should be constructive. You have your answer, everyone has their answer. All powers should use AT modifiers.

Then you used the term "tank-like defenses" incorrectly if you actually meant "tank-like survivability". Defense, Resistance, Regeneration, Max HP, Absorb, Healing and mitigation tools all apply. Tankers have higher modifiers for Defense, Resistance, Max HP (and HP in general), and Heal than Brutes (I believe the mitigation tools are the same, I don't know about Absorb and Regeneration). Ultimately, Brutes do not have tank-like survivability in terms of potential. The only argument may come in the form of tank-like survivability for current game play (as you reach a certain level of survivability in the current content of this game, nothing will currently kill you...but that state is not permanent).

I already responded to your question, but I'll quote myself with emphasis on the portion that currently applies. As for something else you said... Brutes already use AT modifiers. The only way for a brute to have tank-like defenses is if they both hit soft-cap or the tank chose to heavily not invest in their buffs. For what it's worth, my Blaster has tank-like defenses, as does my defender.

He did answer the question, or at the very least invalidated the question you asked as it was already fixed. Do you want to ask a new question "Why was it fixed long ago"?

I am aware, but I'm not sure as to how AoE effects work in that regard. I would assume it is treated as an "affect other" effect, despite also buffing yourself. Powers like Chrono Shift come to mind. Either way, it'll be interesting to see if those modifiers get added. I also thought it was weird seeing Regen/Recovery not impacted by AT.

Thanks, I'll edit it now. It is a very old table, so I'm not expecting amazing accuracy at this point. I just went through and updated Max HP corrections to Blasters, Stalkers, and Tankers

If it helps at least one, then it was totally worth it 🙂

My guess is because powers like Health, Stamina, and Hasten would benefit some ATs more than others. Probably best to just keep them fixed as they are common self buffs for all ATs.

I wondered this myself, which is why I researched the AT Modifiers. If the Power Data Standardization table is an all-inclusive list of AT Modifiers, then it would appear there are no AT Modifiers for Recharge, Recovery and Regeneration. I'm curious to see if those would eventually get modifiers, but I doubt it.

*Edit: This table was generated in 2006. Take it with a huge grain of salt. I'm editing whatever I do find wrong and correcting it in red* Not sure if this helps anyone, but I took the Power Data Standardization v2.0 and reformat it into tables (below). I did make one tweak, which are the recent Tanker damage modifiers (I marked the changes in red, I know there are more that I missed, please point them out and I'll update). Feel free to refer to this when discussing intended AT modifiers and their impacts. Melee Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr EndDrn 1 1.1 1.25 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 1.1 1 Slow -1 -1.25 -1.25 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -1 -1 BuffDef 0.07 0.09 0.1 0.075 0.1 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.09 0.085 0.085 BuffDmg 0.125 0.08 0.1 0.125 0.1 0.09 0.1 0.1 0.08 0.085 0.085 Buf2Hit 0.075 0.08 0.1 0.1 0.1 0.09 0.1 0.1 0.08 0.085 0.085 DBf2Hit -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.075 -0.07 -0.09 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 -0.1 -0.075 DBufDam -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.075 -0.07 -0.09 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 -0.1 -0.075 DBufDef -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.075 -0.07 -0.09 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 -0.1 -0.075 ResDmg 0.07 0.1 0.1 0.075 0.1 0.075 0.075 0.075 0.1 0.085 0.075 Ranged Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr EndDrn 1 1.1 1.25 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1.1 Slow -1 -1.25 -1.25 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -0.8 -0.8 -1 -1 -1 BuffDef 0.065 0.075 0.1 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075 BuffDmg 0.07 0.1 0.125 0.07 0.07 0.09 0.07 0.07 0.075 0.075 0.1 Buf2Hit 0.07 0.1 0.125 0.07 0.07 0.09 0.07 0.07 0.075 0.075 0.1 DBf2Hit -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.07 -0.07 -0.09 -0.07 -0.07 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 DBufDam -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.07 -0.07 -0.09 -0.07 -0.07 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 DBufDef -0.07 -0.1 -0.125 -0.07 -0.07 -0.09 -0.07 -0.07 -0.075 -0.075 -0.1 ResDmg 0.065 0.075 0.1 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.065 0.065 0.075 0.075 0.075 MELEE Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr Damage 1 0.55 0.55 1.125 0.95 0.75 0.75 0.9 0.55 0.75 0.75 KheldSS --- --- --- --- --- 0.85 --- --- --- --- --- Heal 0.9 1.1 1.25 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 1.1 1.1 0.9 HealSlf 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1 Stun 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.8 Immobil 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.8 Sleep 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.8 Knockbk 1 1 1 1 1.25 1 1.25 1 1 1 1 Fear 0.8 1.25 1 1 1 0.9 1 1 1 1 0.8 ResBool 0.8 0.8 0.8 1 1.25 0.9 1 1 0.8 0.8 0.8 Ranged Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr Damage 1 0.55 0.65 0.5 0.8 0.625 0.5 0.6 0.55 0.65 0.75 KheldSS --- --- --- --- --- 1.2 --- --- --- --- --- Heal 0.9 1.1 1.25 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 0.9 1 1 1.1 HealSlf 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1 Stun 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 1 1 0.75 Immobil 0.8 1.25 1 0.8 0.8 0.9 0.8 0.8 0.8 1 0.8 Sleep 0.8 1.25 1 8 0.8 0.9 0.8 8 0.8 1 0.8 Knockbk 0.8 1 1 1 1.25 0.9 1.25 1 0.8 1 0.8 Fear 0.8 1.25 1 1 1 0.9 1 1 0.8 1 0.8 ResBool 0.7 1 1.25 0.7 0.7 0.9 0.7 0.7 0.75 0.75 1 Hit Points Blaster Contrlr Defendr Scrappr Tanker Khldian Brute Stalker MasterM Domnatr Coruptr HitPts 1.125 0.95 0.95 1.25 1.75 1 1.4 0.95 0.75 0.95 1 MaxHP 1.15 1 1 1.5 2.2 1.5 2 1.3 1 1 1 Notes EndDrn = Endurance Drain BuffDef = Buff Defense, used by powers like Maneuvers and Personal Force Field BuffDmg = Buff Damage, used by powers like Forge and Build Up Buf2Hit = Buff To-Hit, used by powers like Tactics and Aim DBf2Hit = Debuff To-Hit DBufDam = Debuff Damage DBufDef = Debuff Defense ResDmg = Resist Damage, used by both buff and debuff powers that modify resistance HitPts = Total Hit Points MaxHP = Maximum possible Hit Points, using HP-boosting powers like Dull Pain or accolades KheldSS = Kheldian Damage modifiers while shapeshifted, Melee is Dwarf Form, Ranged is Nova Form HealSlf = Heal Self, used for self heal powers like Reconstruction and Aid Self ResBool = Res_Boolean, used for misc. attributes that scale by level, like mez resistance

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it" has been replaced with "If it's always been broke, why fix it?"

@Jimmyin the patch notes there were a couple of items I was curious about. 1) Can you provide more details about what the KB changes are, and if it might affect KD or KU? Is there anything in particular we should look for if we test it? 2) You.mentioned there were some powers that were erroneously labeled as both Range and AoE. They are no longer dual labelled, but can you specify as to what each attack is now labeled as?

Excellent breakdown of the history. I did not know about defenders using a Blaster version of Blizzard. As for Darkness Affinity, I had to look it up. Paragon Wiki shows the power went live in March of 2012, and I believe the game was announced as cancelled at the end of August of 2012 (where I believe all development halted). Perhaps they had a chance to correct it when they ported it over, but it's also possible they rushed it out and never had time to fix it before being fired.

FWIW, I checked in game and the Panacea does 8.8% HP while the Power Transfer is 5% HP. Both use Base HP for their calculations (so having extra HP does not increase the HP returned).

It's a must have. For the endurance alone

How does that compare with Panacea? I can't remember off the top of my head, but I thought Panacea is 3PPM with a 7.5% HP heal.

Explain how it works... Edit, my bad, I confused Blizzard with a different support power. In this case I absolutely would expect Corruptor version of Blizzard to do more damage if AT modifiers are currently set to Defender

For corruptor's, I imagine their AT modifier would actually increase the damage, if Blizzard gets tweaked. However the debuffs would likely shrink. As for the history of the game, again, I dont know the limitations as to why pseudopets did not adhere to AT modifiers. I'll let a dev chime in on their opinion with that, as they know far more about the mechanics of the game (and its history) than I do. My hope is that if AT modifiers are being correctly applied to all powers now (pseudopets in particular), that it properly scales both ways. For example, I dont want to see a Defender version of Blizzard doing more damage than a Corruptor's version just because Blizzard is a primary power for Defenders, whereas it is secondary for Corruptor. I would hope the modifier is for ranged damage, and the Corruptor version gets buffed.