Wravis

Should probably put the new, locked costume pieces in the Costumes section so it's not confusing and seemingly hidden. Aren't there 19 new reskinned pieces added too?

Responding because you're putting words in my mouth. There's a wide gamut of options when acknowledging a poor decision was made, that don't include "make a public statement and commit to a specific set of rules to abide by in the future". I never suggested they make a public statement of apology.

Yeah. It's turned more into a debate about our differing philosophies regarding how to run community testing, development deadlines, and the benefits of speaking out against things you don't like. Which is probably giving poor GooglyMoogly a migraine. I'm going to stop for now. It's the same people telling me I'm wrong over and over. We're not going to agree. The thread was thoroughly derailed, and it was never on sturdy rails to begin with.

Did you miss all of the people who don't like having a single target toggle in melee set that requires you to take the first two attacks in the set to make full use of it? Aside from Glacier Peak, Shard Warrior, Ghost, Championess, and now you and Steampunkette repeatedly telling not to give my opinion and just accept their decisions, yeah. No one is telling me to shut up. Do you want me to make a new thread and remove "Sonic Melee Is Not Ready" from the title so you're not confused about the fact that this thread isn't specific to Sonic Melee? Maybe I should title it "Make Better Decisions and Reconsider How You Respond to Criticism So People Don't Feel Disinclined To Test New Features" because "Listen to Feedback" is easy to purposely misconstrue as claiming they don't see comments.

1) Do you think that is a good, productive way to create content for a game? Rush it out to hit arbitrary deadlines you've set for yourself, and fix it later? This is a game. The Homecoming team isn't a group of infallible higher beings who can't be seen as flawed or it'll risk societal collapse. Acknowledging mistakes isn't a weakness. Stubbornly refusing to admit mistakes is. I don't think that is a good way to develop content. So I am voicing my opinion. And people keep telling me to shut up. Stop telling me to shut up. 2) I agree, they shouldn't make a fixed statement about the length required to test things. I'm not suggesting they should. But this was an entirely new set with new feature mechanics, that deserved more time. I registered my discontent, and keep getting told to shut up. At this point it's not even the Homecoming Team that's the problem. It's the group of people who keep high fiving each other and repeating each other telling me and people who are unhappy to be quiet. Stop telling people who have complaints to be quiet. Why ask for feedback if the stance will be "if you don't like it, too bad"? I don't think that's the Homecoming team's policy, but I do think that it's the route that tends to be taken because it's easier to accept the praise and ignore the criticism. And I think it's a pattern through a lot of testing. Hence why I pointed it out. Hence why multiple people have pointed it out. The initial post was not very constructive. I'm aware. I apologize. That doesn't make the opinion presented wrong. I'm not the only one who has that opinion.

I was told to move my discussion from Focused Feedback to general feedback, thanks. And I am 'ranting and raving' that they should not start their testing when they know they have such a strict deadline. They can delay the release after providing the proper amount of time to test the set. And if they CAN'T, because they set their own arbitrary deadline, they should, at least, acknowledge that it was a bad decision and they will consider it for the future. Rather than pretending nothing was wrong and insulting testers for trying to provide feedback that they don't want to hear. They created both the rock and the hard place. They have the power to remove the hard place. There were other things being tested that were not ready, that they are not putting through to the next patch. They are capable of delaying the release of content and features. They are choosing not to.

Except this restaurant isn't open yet, and invited people in to test dishes to see if people thought it should be on the menu. Then sent servers around to ask "how is everything", heard people's opinions about the temperature of the food and the ambiance of the building, and then, before the meal was over, announced "we already decided what was going to be on the menu. We need to open by the end of the month. There's no time to change the selection. Thanks for coming" before listening to the feedback on the actual flavor, texture, variety, or pricing. Now I'm saying "hey wait, we have things to say about the food. Why did you waste our time bringing us out here if you weren't going to hear our opinions?" People would be justifiably annoyed at having their time wasted. They would be justified in saying "in the future, you should take the time to consider the menu changes people are suggesting. And if you wouldn't have time to consider menu changes, you should have scheduled the market testing earlier, or at least be honest about the fact that the event was meant to drum up hype for the grand opening."

The thing about language is that you don't need to use the specific words to convey your point. Carpet bombing every post anyone who disagrees with you with thumbs down is one way to tell them "do not post your opinion". Repeatedly telling them "if you don't like it, don't use it" when that thing is being tested and is (at least in theory) meant to be in a phase where it can be changed to something else, is telling them "do not post your opinion". "I'm not saying to shut up. I'm just saying don't talk." If it's not want you're intending to say, I can accept it. But it's how it comes across. But why not voice my concerns about their willingness to consider feedback? If you agree with that sentiment, but feel too defeated to argue that they should change their methods, that's on you. Don't encourage other people to give up, too. We should want change when we're unhappy with things. And yeah, I know my angry "this is ridiculous" first post was definitely not helpful or constructive, either. I realized shortly after posting that I should have cooled off before posting this. But it was too late to hide, and so I'm trying, belatedly, to be more constructive with what I say. (Mr. Moogly, I know this is kind of bickery, but please don't delete it. There's actual discussion about feedback mixed in.)

I disagree with your first statement. However, the part I highlighted, I definitely agree with. And that's a consistent pattern and problem with the development and testing of this game. And that's part of what I mean when I say they do not listen. It's back to the analogy I made of being one the phone and going "uh huh, uh huh, mhmm" until the person stops talking and hangs up. Once the developers have made up their mind on something, they stop actively listening. Sure, they'll keep the discussion going, but not with any intention of actually considering any feedback. And this thread, and my reactions, and criticisms, have all primarily been about how I feel that this was the state of their willingness to accept feedback from the start. There was never going to be serious consideration of dramatic changes. There was not going to be enough time for that. They knew the deadline was November. They chose to push it out for testing with only two weeks, because that's enough time to tweak numbers. People went into the testing with the assumption that there would time for testing. People put time into testing and providing feedback. What we got was an abrupt "okay that's done now, we don't have time for big changes. Maybe later." Why? Was it that they thought it would be an easy win for a marquee feature to make the patch look more rich in content? Was it that they were so confident in their internal testing they couldn't fathom anyone being unhappy with their experimental new idea? Was it that they are developing for the four people who have liked every post that speaks positively about the set and criticized people who are unhappy? Because you shouldn't develop for four people. You being part of that group of four people doesn't make your opinion more valid. It doesn't make you superior. Stop acting like it, please.

Except you didn't. You posted "don't make any more of this, because I don't like it". It's not made for you. They aren't obligated to stop making them simply because you don't like the show. And now I'm telling you, no, don't voice your opinion. Just shut up and don't consume the thing being created. Like you suggest others do when they don't like things. Do you see how annoying that is? That's what you sound like.

If you don't like it, don't watch it.

I'm gonna start saying this any time they release powers that underperform numbers-wise. Or any time someone points out a potential bug. That's just how they made it. If you don't like it, don't play it. Better yet, don't give feedback at all. Just take everything unquestioningly. If you don't like it, don't play it.

I can see why you would see it that way. It's annoying and frustrating and disheartening to be told people don't like the things you're working on. It's always easy to see yourself positively and others negatively, when there are disagreements. Especially when you're the one in the position of power. To me this situation is more like when someone is on the phone going "Uh huh. Uh huh. Mhm..." trying to make the conversation end so they can hang up and then immediately purge the interaction from their memory. You are technically listening. You hear the sounds. But you're not actually considering anything being said by the person on the phone. You're just letting them speak so it gets over with sooner. (Not you, specifically. The generic "you".) Trying to choose my words carefully instead of speaking in broad strokes, because it is true that feedback has been listened to in the past. Even with Sonic Melee, things were adjusted to make the set more powerful, and there was an attempt to change Attune slightly. But it was always just number tweaks and small adjustments. There didn't seem to ever be an actual willingness to consider that the feature wasn't working on a conceptual level and might need to be changed to something else. The speed that this set was put through both phases of testing makes it very hard to believe that there was a willingness to consider feedback that wasn't just bug reports and number tweaking. If the deadline was November, the set should have started testing much earlier in advance. Saying "it's feature locked now, but still give feedback" doesn't mean much. Feedback is always accepted. There's a whole section of the forum for it. The issue is whether or not they actually consider it. To me that reads like "we know you don't like it, and you're free to keep complaining". This works if the what the devs are aiming for is always correct. But it's not. They should be willing to accept and admit that their ideas don't always work. The flaming started when it was made clear there was no plan to actually consider opinions on the set, other than tweaking numbers and minor fixes. I'm not sure your example is equivalent to this situation. They spent a long time testing those changes. If my math and memory is correct, the changes were first brought up in October 2023. The patch with that revamp didn't come until February of 2024. That's months of testing. Even looking at a testing period for a brand new powerset for a more equivalent example. Pyrotechnic Control first started testing in February 2025. It was tested until June 2025. Four months. They only spent two weeks on testing Sonic Melee before announcing it was feature locked (and will maybe get another look after it's released). That's what's frustrating about this.

I have, yes. Several redacted days during closed, and the first two days of open, and then again yesterday, and some more today. What I see, I feel, is a bandage over a broken bone. It's a patch up that doesn't fix the underlying issue. That said... I'd go back through all of my posts and try to edit my tone to be less hostile if I could, but at this point it'd be pointless because I've already gotten on the nerves of the people who were meant to see my feedback. If you can/would like to hide/delete this thread, that'd be ideal. But you can also leave it up so people can reference it when they want to point out how not to interact with the GM/Dev team. Either way, some time in the near future I'll probably write a hopefully much more polite feedback post, to give my suggestions for what I feel is an ongoing issue regarding feedback and decision making. I'll wait until I'm less frustrated by my interactions during this testing period.