Which type of power is best for Sentinel ATOs

[DarknessEternal]

Given that there's procs in question, which kind of power is actually best suited for those procs?

 

If the procs aren't worth using, I guess I'm asking that too.

[oldskool]

6 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

Given that there's procs in question, which kind of power is actually best suited for those procs?

I feel that's potentially complicated.  For a moment, take a glace at the secondary response (scroll down past my wall of text to the second quote).  I'll wait.  😉 

Ok, so the most generic answer I can offer at this time is this; put the ATO's into a power that has nothing better to take.  That's about the best advice I think anyone can seriously give regarding the ATOs.  It's probably also a good TL;DR for everything here that follows. 😄

Now, there are some cases in very specific build decisions that can give you more direction on where those ATOs can/should go.  There are very specific powers in specific sets that can make better use of the Opportunity Strikes proc than others.  So in short, there is some variance in the decision making at least from my explorations into this question.  

More specifics...   The Sentinel's Ward proc has a PPM value that is fairly high (5 or 6 at Superior).  The Opportunity Strikes proc has a PPM value that is rather low (2 at Superior).  Both of the procs include a hefty amount of recharge within the IO itself.  That hurts the Strikes proc right out of the gate making it more difficult to build for.  

Anyway, like any proc with a lower PPM value the most ideal spot for that is going to be a power with a longer recharge and perhaps a long-ish animation too.  The Ward proc is a little more forgiving due to its higher proc value and can work in a few more options.  The chance to trigger these procs is per target too so that makes 10 target AoEs pretty nice options depending on what other sets might work for a given build.  

I do not want to casually write off that these have no use or value.  If you look at a set like Psychic Blast and Scramble Thoughts you'll find this is actually a pretty good candidate for Opportunity Strikes.  The animation is long, the recharge is one of the longest for single target attacks in the AT, and the power has few other proc options.  In my testing of it, Scramble Thoughts worked out to being a decent place for that ATO.  Decent to me is over the mid-teens in probability because my general dice rolling straight up sucks.  If I can get to 1 in 5 chances (or within 1-2% of it), then I can grit my teeth and bare it.  Anyway, the proc in that power helped me get some more up time on the resistance debuff which is beneficial to reducing some the annoyance of psi resistance later on.  Dark Blast's Antumbral Beam also worked with the proc (better in practice than on paper).  In Dual Pistols that specific proc is too unreliable for my tastes.  Dual Pistols is actually compromised of fast animating and fast recharging powers.  The faster animating attack chains possible for Sentinels include powers with proc chances of 8-13% per activation.  Now, that's something to potentially work around granted that you can cycle each activation every few seconds.  So instead of a more reliable chance per shot, you add more rolls of the dice over time.  That really just doesn't work well for me in practice.  By practice I mean both in real play and in testing (I've spent hours messing with this damn proc).  That said, Piercing Rounds has turned out to be far more reliable for trigger that proc than I would have first thought, but that power doesn't work as well for my build.  My build utilizes damage procs across the fast animating powers and the sheer brute force of those procs is better for my purposes.  

So in the case of Dual Pistols you do have a power (Piercing Rounds) that can be a good single target attack or an AoE filler.  If you wanted to use the Strikes ATO there, then the question becomes "Is this a mule or a focal point of the build?".  Sorry to prattle on about Dual Pistols, but it is the set I play the most.  It is also an interesting case study with these procs.  Dual Pistols has a number of valid attack chains due to damage proc potential and Piercing Rounds works in a couple.  Dual Pistols also has fast animating attacks and fast recharges like Fire Blast.  So you can make an assumption that Fire Blast may not make a lot of use of the Strikes proc either.  Piercing Rounds has a cousin power in Beam Rifle that can also be a decent candidate for the Opportunity Strikes proc if nothing better works for your build. 

This means the generic game mechanics decision point, at least in my experience so far, is that powers with a rough 2+ Arcanatime animation and 15 second recharge are serviceable spots for the  Strikes ATO.  That's single target.  Any AoE that hits 10 targets has a chance to trigger per activation and some powers are pretty good for it too (See Water Blast: Whirlpool).  That means that targeted ranged T9's can also fill your bar per activation but that doesn't really do much to improve Opportunity up time.  I call out targeted ranged T9s specifically due to the set options not being as good as those in the PBAoE category.  Really though, I'm speaking to a comparison of very rare set options (Ragnarok vs Armageddon).  Armageddon (PBAoE) has a damage proc and Ragnarok (TAoE) does not.  Armageddon feels like a no-brainer for adding damage to a T9 but some Primaries Sets include a PBAoE within the set (e.g., Radiation Blast: Irradiate).  So even then there is no hard and fast rule that should be followed about how to use the ATO. 

Anyway, the randomness on the Strikes ATO makes it difficult to plan for and therefore I say... don't bother planning around it generally.  The Ward proc is a bit more forgiving and works even in powers with faster animations and shorter recharges due to the PPM value being what it is.  You can also get a lot of chances per target in AoEs to generate the absorb.  However, that absorb appears to be subject to enemy strength and so its real practical value can drop into the toilet due to that.  I've seen that proc grant a +19 absorb on level 54 targets.  Yay, right?  Preventative Medicine gives me far more. 

 

6 hours ago, DarknessEternal said:

If the procs aren't worth using <snip>

This one is easy.  The procs, in general, are not worth building around but the set bonuses are worth using.  The sets have good bonuses that you can break up (for the ranged % increase) or go all in on (for defense/recharge).  

Edited September 12, 2019 by oldskool

[Murcielago]

I put both in long recharge AoEs. One is in Explosive Arrow and the other is in Rain of Arrows. 

[drbuzzard]

I think I also have them in AOEs. Personally I don't worry much about the procs. I value the set bonuses instead. Some other ATOs are great and make for a huge change (stalker, scrapper), but the sentinel ones are so so.

[BrandX]

11 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

I think I also have them in AOEs. Personally I don't worry much about the procs. I value the set bonuses instead. Some other ATOs are great and make for a huge change (stalker, scrapper), but the sentinel ones are so so.

 

I'm not even sure I would call them so so.  Not even sure I feel their bonuses are the best.

[drbuzzard]

14 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I'm not even sure I would call them so so.  Not even sure I feel their bonuses are the best.

For my purposes the set bonuses were helpful. Of course YMMV. I have to imagine people at least like the large recharge bonuses. I find recharge is a key goal to chase on Sentinel builds to get the T9 nuke up as often as possible.

Edited September 17, 2019 by drbuzzard

[BrandX]

1 minute ago, drbuzzard said:

For my purposes the set bonuses were helpful. Of course YMMV. I have to imagine people at least like the large recharge bonuses. I find recharge is a key goal to chase on Sentinel builds to get the T9 nuke up as often as possible.

I will give you the Recharge Bonus.

 

I do wish they put in some Resist in one of the sets, like the Melee ATs get.

[drbuzzard]

Just now, BrandX said:

I will give you the Recharge Bonus.

 

I do wish they put in some Resist in one of the sets, like the Melee ATs get.

I agree. The resistance sets got put in the red haired stepchild position here. They are definitely better for defensive builds.

[BrandX]

59 minutes ago, drbuzzard said:

I agree. The resistance sets got put in the red haired stepchild position here. They are definitely better for defensive builds.

Tankers and Brutes get +6 to S/L/E/N/F/C with Scrappers and Stalkers left out in the cold with just S/L and Sentinels, none.  They should fix it.