Avalanche and Overwhelming Force Chance for Knockdown

[Kismette]

It seem like these procs would ignore or overwrite an ability with knockdown effects and turning them into knockbacks.

 

I am familiar with clockwork minions being easily kb'd with kd's but, I was knocking back council half the time with Martial Assault's Dragon's Tail with the Avalanche set and then Energy Blast's Nova with the Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance to Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown.  Replacing them with the Sudden Acceleration : Knockback to Knockdown 'fixes' this, sacrificing that 6th bonus from Avalanche though and the extra damage output from the Overwhelming Force proc.

 

If anyone's getting a different result, I would like to know..... it may just be on my end.

[Sniktch]

All the "Knockback to Knockdown" effect does is cap the innate KB MAG of the power at .67; it does nothing to outside sources of KB.  Outside sources like Overwhelming Force: Damage/Chance to Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown.  If you use it in a KB or KD power and both the base power effect AND the Chance to Knockdown fire at once, you've applied a 1.34 MAG Knock effect to the vic, and they go flying.  This is why Sudden Acceleration doesn't do it; it doesn't add the extra chance for .67 MAG Knock.  Theoretically, this could be fixed by making the KB-KD portion of the GrantPower cap innate Knock at .32 instead, but I'm unsure what that'd do to the power's function, as .67 is the lowest MAG KB I'm aware of in the whole game.

 

Avalanche's proc is just a straight chance for MAG .67 Knock - in the Dragon's Tail example, you've once again procced 2 .67 MAG Knocks at once, only this time, it's cause the base power's MAG is already that, rather than restricted down to it.  If you want no chance to Knockback, then Avalanche and Overwhelming Force are both best used in powers that don't have Knock as a base attribute.

[Kismette]

So that's WAI?! And here I'm thinking that it should just ignore the 'chance to knockdown' if the ability has knockback and use that 'knockback to knockdown' part instead 😖

 

And in Dragon's Tail.... to keep the kd instead of knocking back

Edited September 15, 2019 by Kismette

[srmalloy]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there a post about the KB->KD enhancements that stated that their effect was to divide the magnitude of the KB value by 1000?

[Kismette]

Except when the knockback turned knockdown and then the chance to knockdown procs, it turns it back to a knockback.  It just feels broken.

[Noyjitat]

The only time I’ve run into the “broken” issue you’re describing is when I slot it in burn. Burn seems to do really weird stuff with knockdown procs.

[Redlynne]

ANY KnockDOWN ... when stacked (including with itself) ... will produce KnockBACK.

 

Most Knockdowns are 0.67-0.75 MAG Knockback.

What happens when you STACK that MAG?

Now you've got 1.34-1.5 MAG Knockback.

What does 1+ MAG Knockback do?

It does KnockBACK ... not KnockDOWN.

 

What does Burn do very effectively?

It stacks Knockbacks very quickly.

What does stacking Knockdowns do, even if they're KnockDOWNs?

Re(re)ad the above if you're still unclear on the concept.

[WillParkinson]

Sorry I'm late to the party here, but I had a build that showed Avalanche: Recharge/Chance For Knockdown in Burn. When I lay a burn patch, some bad guys go flinging through the air. Is there a reason for this that I'm not understanding? (And believe me, I don't understand a LOT of things.)

[Mr. Vee]

21 minutes ago, WillParkinson said:

Sorry I'm late to the party here, but I had a build that showed Avalanche: Recharge/Chance For Knockdown in Burn. When I lay a burn patch, some bad guys go flinging through the air. Is there a reason for this that I'm not understanding? (And believe me, I don't understand a LOT of things.)

From what i understand (Pine explained it to me a while back) it's because burn has an upfront damage tick then a pseudopet for the patch. Avalanche can proc on both in which case it stacks and converts to kb, i.e. >1.0 mag