Night Widow Build -- comments appreciated

Amyante · October 21, 2019

Well, after a while i've come up with this one, basically kitbashed it together from a couple of builds (Angelhood's Melee Night Widow and TopDoc's Guide from way back in 2011, for those wondering). I may have gone slightly overboard on accuracy and my defenses are pretty decent, but for a first stab at making a build it seems okay.

Feel free to copy, review etc. 🙂

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.6
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Chilldara: Level 50 Natural Arachnos Widow
Primary Power Set: Night Widow Training
Secondary Power Set: Widow Teamwork
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Poison Dart

(A) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Accuracy/Damage
(3) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(3) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(5) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(5) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Recharge/Chance for -Dmg and Terrorize
(7) Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Damage/Recharge

Level 1: Combat Training: Defensive

(A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 2: Strike

(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(9) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
(11) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
(11) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(13) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(13) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 4: Tactical Training: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(17) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 6: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(19) Recharge Reduction IO
(21) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 8: Follow Up

(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(21) Mako's Bite - Damage/Endurance
(23) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(23) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(25) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 10: Indomitable Will

(A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 12: Lunge

(A) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage
(25) Mako's Bite - Damage/Recharge
(27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
(27) Mako's Bite - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(29) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)

Level 14: Boxing

(A) Stupefy - Endurance/Stun

Level 16: Tactical Training: Assault

(A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 18: Tough

(A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
(29) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
(31) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
(31) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 20: Weave

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(31) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(33) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
(33) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime

Level 22: Foresight

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(33) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(34) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 24: Mind Link

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(34) Reactive Defenses - Endurance/RechargeTime
(34) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(36) Reactive Defenses - Defense/RechargeTime
(36) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
(36) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage

Level 26: Eviscerate

(A) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(37) Obliteration - Damage
(37) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
(37) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance
(39) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(39) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 28: Spin

(A) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(39) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
(40) Obliteration - Damage
(40) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Endurance
(40) Multi-Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(42) Multi-Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 30: Mask Presence

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 32: Combat Jumping

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(43) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 35: Tactical Training: Leadership

(A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
(43) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge
(45) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff

Level 38: Maneuvers

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
(45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 41: Electrifying Fences

(A) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize
(46) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Immobilize/Recharge
(46) Gravitational Anchor - Accuracy/Recharge
(46) Gravitational Anchor - Immobilize/Endurance
(48) Gravitational Anchor - Chance for Hold

Level 44: Slash

(A) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
(48) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
(48) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(50) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
(50) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
(50) Superior Blistering Cold - Recharge/Chance for Hold

Level 47: Assault

(A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 49: Mental Training

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(7) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

(A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

(A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

(A) Celerity - +Stealth
(9) Celerity - RunSpeed

Level 1: Conditioning

Level 2: Rest

Gulbasaur · October 22, 2019

Could you post a screenshot of you defence and resistances? Without eyeballing it, it's hard to tell.

Broken_Prey · October 23, 2019

Looking over the build, I don't have mids where I'm at. I would take slash earlier, maybe switching it with eviscerate. If you don't plan on side kicking down then that's not a problem. If you're still leveling, I would like to have slash over eviscerate.

I can't see how you slotted health or stamina but make sure to have + recovery and +end in there.

Shockacon · October 24, 2019

I popped the build into MR and I sadly admit to being a bit jealous of the higher defense numbers than I got on mine, but I aimed more for offensive in a "kill them before they stab you" mentality. They've done better on resistances than me, too. I'll give them credit there even though I kinda scratch my head over slotting brawl and sprint but that's personal preference only. Still, a couple of non-NW selections are making me rethinking my respec plan. (So thanks ahead of time if I end up using them as suggestions!)

I do agree with Slash being taken earlier as both night widows I've had (both then on live and now on HC), Slash was the most damaging attack. I slotted it with Superior Dominion of Arachnos and have enjoyed the carnage it creates.

Amyante · October 27, 2019

Thanks ^^

Had a weird week, sorry for the late replies:

Shockacon, you may be interested in looking at Angelhood's build then, they had more damage than mine, though didn't have Weave, and went Soul instead of Mu. The slotting of Brawl and Sprint were taken over from Angelhood's build as well, and admittedly, the Celerity 2-set bonus is 2.25% Smashing and Lethal resistance (among others) and having 2/6 Crushing Impact gives another 1,5% to those two, so it's a pretty good return of investment for a single slot in each. I also don't have a transportation power, so the 2-slotted Celerity brings my regular running speed up to 41 mph, which is half of Super Speed, only without the End cost.

I suppose if you needed to fit anything in, Mental Training could be dropped and you could pick up Tactics for another +12,5% party wide To-Hit (According to MiDS you'd be on an accuracy buff (to self) of +41% now) and be the party radar at close to 1200 feet Perception and +103.5% Perception Debuff Resist, or grab Placate if you want to be more of a scout or whatever, but i'm currently leaning towards Mental Training because of the 40% Recharge and Run speed debuff resistance it gives me.

Gulbasaur:

I made two sets, one with Mental Training and the +RunSpd IO (there basically isn't anything useful to fit in it), and one with Tactics with a To Hit/Endurance slotted into it. The difference between To-Hit/End and pure To-Hit was only 1% at a cost of 0.07 End/s more, so it wasn't worth it. If you're going Tactics you could sneak a slot off of Poison Dart or Strike and get a 2-slot bonus for Rectified Reticle in there, it's a level 10-20 set but it should get you another 1.88% Smashing and Lethal and 0.94% Melee Defense if you've got a free slot floating around somewhere, and the End/s and +To-Hit buff from those two would be equal to a single To-Hit/End buff from Gaussian's or Adjusted Targeting, if anyone's wondering.

I'll try and move Slash up (probably just below or above Eviscerate), but i'm more of a defensive player and Slash has the bad luck of becoming available together with a bunch of defense options. Mind Link is basically half my defenses there.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Amyante

Gulbasaur · October 27, 2019

41 minutes ago, Amyante said:

I'm more of a defensive player

You weren't kidding.

I can see what you're trying to do, but 76-84% positional defences is absurdly high for most of the game. The "soft cap" is 45%, with around 60% being really, really high for most circumstances... unless you're soloing against enemies who debuff defence a lot, you really don't need it that high.

For reference, I have lower defences (~50-60% with Mind Link, ~35-45% without - not perma) and lower damage resistance (~15-20% avg without Hybrid or scaling dam res buffs) and I can solo AVs. I can even tank for squishy ATs and hold aggro. For general gameplay purposes, you don't need that much defence.

I've literally only had my defence drop significantly once and that was solo in the shadow shard being hit by multiple debuffs when I pulled extra mobs... teammates usually have you covered as Maneuvers is such a common power at 50 that it's not usually a problem. I get what you're doing... but don't make yourself so defensive you stop being able to fight. If you want to be more team support, maybe try out a fortunata build for the extra control powers - AoE confuse, hold, stud and knockdown powers are great damage mitigation.

Also, Mask Presence has such a low endurance cost and two thirds of the defence is lost when you enter combat - if you can cope with the loss of the set bonuses, I'd just leave the LOTG recharge enhancement in there and use the two slots somewhere else.

Also, from experience Superior Dominion of Arachnos - Recharge/Chance for -Dmg and Terrorize is best used in an AoE because it procs often enough to be used as damage mitigation - I use it in Psychic Scream on my fortunata and it quite often drops the fear effect on 4 enemies or so at once. Maybe even Electrifying Fences? The payoff is a drop in tox and psi resistance, but you have psi resistance at cap so it'd really be toxic damage. Personally, I'd say it was worth it for the extra control - it limits enemies attacking to once every five seconds.

tldr: If I was making this, I'd drop the fighting pool entirely, lower defence by about 10-15% overall, use Mask Presence as a one-slot wonder and move the chance for Terrorize to an AoE. I'd think really hard about dropping the leadership pool, too.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Gulbasaur

Amyante · October 27, 2019

Yeah, when i ran it in the test server and started reading Combat logs i already had a feeling i may have overinvested there. I blame never having done +4/x8's, and my main being a Mastermind 😄

But yeah, the reasoning on my end was that since Poison Dart has a recharge under its cast time, that chance for terrorize would be best used there. It and Fences are the only ranged abilities i have, so getting a strong unit in a pack to retreat for 10 seconds on a 1.5 sec cast should keep them off me while i clear the adds. Fences is pretty much geared towards maximizing Immobilization as it takes too long to recharge to be used as a panic button. I haven't gotten a good feel of how much a 'Mag' is yet, but Fences is Mag 3 and my own Immobilization protection is 20.76 Mag, so i'm guessing that's pretty good. Or bad, depending on point of view.

I'll probably keep the Fighting pool as it counts for over 20% of my Smashing and Lethal resistance. As for the Leadership pool, given the stacking potential between that and its equivalents on the Widow Teamwork pool i figured i could boost my teammates to the Moon and back, but if that shows up anywhere within Mids', i have yet to find it. 😕

Edited October 27, 2019 by Amyante

Gulbasaur · October 27, 2019

Yeah... masterminds are very different! I could never get my head around them because I'm a run-at-it-screaming kinda guy.

It's useful to know how defence works in this game. Here is a decent explanation but basically, for probability purposes, you get 50% "for free" so 45% defence means an even level minion will only hit you once every twenty attempts (you have a 95% chance to not get hit). Minions, lieutenants, bosses, elite bosses etc all have different modifiers and the difference in level is taken into account, as well as ToHit buffs and debuffs... but 45% is a lot and more than 60% is really a lot. At 45% defence, a +4 AV will still only hit you about one in every ten attempts. Widows can tank most AVs very easily because of this.

Maneuvers gives you 3.5% defence without any enhancements, so lets say with enhancements it's 8%. If you run it and TT:M, that's 16% that you give to your teammates, which is pretty decent. If you add Mind Link, you're giving them about an extra 15% on top - that's 31% defence, which is incredibly generous. At 50, most people have at least some defence of their own from IO sets and almost every tank will have over 20% defence even if they're a pure damage resistance set. Even if you're not building for it, it's quite easy to build up about 10% defence across the board by accident.

Defence can be debuffed, which happens mostly in incarnate level stuff and the shadow shard, but it's not common enough to be a risk unless you're soloing as lots of teammates will also take Maneuvers and you need to take multiple shots of it to really be in danger (hence a problem solo) but you have pretty decent resistances so it shouldn't flatten you unless you really get in over your head.

It's also pretty common for people to take the Barrier incarnate power, which gives massive boosts to defence and damage resistance.

Also, remember that lots of toggles can absolutely hammer your endurance, so you'll need to plan for that. This guide is really helpful to working out how to get the best bang for your buck for endurance.

For magnitudes, this is really helpful. Mag 3 will usually immobilise a boss (and some AVs), although some have more protection.

Your goals are great, but I think you'd find a bit more balance if you scaled it back a bit. Again, take a look at the fortunata stuff - you lose some melee options and Mind Link becomes harder to make perma, but you gain a lot of control and some decent AoE damage.

Also, I really rate Rebirth Destiny and Melee Hybrid as survival incarnate powers as they patch up the main problems of no healing and medium damage resistance.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Gulbasaur

Amyante · October 27, 2019

Yeah, with Masterminds you're playing more as a BBEG*, throwing expendable minions at the heroes. I've also used it as a panic button of sorts, since pets are the ones pulling all the aggro, so i could get away. Not much on personal damage, but they fully rely on their team buffs because their pets are their DPS and Tanks all rolled into one. It's a you-scream-at-others-to-run-at-it class 😛

* = I say BBEG, but there could be a Hero equivalent too. But a class revolving around someone going "Oh dear, just lost good 'ole Johnny. Guess i'll need to summon a fresh one." doesn't really strike me as heroic.

Incarnates are something i'm incredibly new at myself, and sit on a level i've yet to reach, so i'll cross that bridge when i get there. They'll probably have requirements or something. Anyway, need to go atm so thanks for the links, i'll be taking a look at those later too 🙂

Edited October 27, 2019 by Amyante

Shockacon · October 28, 2019

I took a look again at mine, and my defense actually sat between 45% and 50% (before Barrier) on everything except Melee, Ranged, and AOE (which were way up). Resistance appears to be under 10% except Toxic (15%) and Psionic (85% which I really miss on every other toon now every time I get hit with a stun, mez, immobilization, sleep, restaurant check , tax bill, or other such thing). I've got the Assault and Support Hybrids. Maybe should've gotten that Melee one after all... I've got 2 slots available on a planned respec, too, that I suppose I could shift to something for resist...

I also admit to getting greedy on travel powers and 2-slotted super speed and super jump for zone travelling coz gaaawwwwwd when you have to cross Independence Port or Nerva sometimes... but I'll use ninja run in mission.

Amyante · October 28, 2019

If you've got a Pool left over, Sorcery has Mystic Flight. It's +215% Fly speed so equal to Fly from the Flight pool at half the End cost, so compared to +249% for Super Jump and 350% for Super Speed it's the slowest of the three, but comes with a complimentary teleportation ability that i believe has the same range as Teleportation's... Teleport.

If you want to be mobile without being the party Uber going down the Teleport pool, can i suggest giving that a try? 🙂

Gulbasaur · October 28, 2019

2 hours ago, Shockacon said:

I took a look again at mine, and my defense actually sat between 45% and 50% (before Barrier) on everything except Melee, Ranged, and AOE (which were way up).

Defence calculations go off the highest relevant number... So the lower numbers won't could at all. The only one that is sometimes separate is psi. If you've got high psi, melee, AoE and ranged literally all the other numbers are irrelevant... So you're pretty much untouchable under most circumstances.

There's a critical hit rule so at least one hit in 20 will get through.

It might be worth wiggling things around to move some of your defence to resistance is you're really high in defence (45% is great, more than 60% is overkill).

Shockacon · October 28, 2019

Oddly enough, Psi defense is the lowest percentage but I NEVER get hit by anything it seems I assume because its resist value is pretty high. I can shift at least 2 slots into Indom Will at least so I guess that would help, right? At least a start? Was planning on moving 2 from Elude since I don't use it often now, maybe another from Placate since the story is the same there. I don't have Mids up to see where I was and about to head out the door but wanted to respond before I forgot.

Oh yeah, and besides SS and SJ, I actually did grab Mystic Flight at 49 coz I didn't know what else to get and thought it would be neat to basically have all the travel powers. (again, travelling across IP and Nerva... ugh, I need a better travel agent) But hey, using the built in teleport to sneak up quickly and do a "stalk stab strangle" (coz she don't play that "live laugh love" bit, no sir!) is always fun.

Omega-202 · October 29, 2019

16 hours ago, Shockacon said:

Oddly enough, Psi defense is the lowest percentage but I NEVER get hit by anything it seems I assume because its resist value is pretty high. I can shift at least 2 slots into Indom Will at least so I guess that would help, right? At least a start? Was planning on moving 2 from Elude since I don't use it often now, maybe another from Placate since the story is the same there. I don't have Mids up to see where I was and about to head out the door but wanted to respond before I forgot.

Oh yeah, and besides SS and SJ, I actually did grab Mystic Flight at 49 coz I didn't know what else to get and thought it would be neat to basically have all the travel powers. (again, travelling across IP and Nerva... ugh, I need a better travel agent) But hey, using the built in teleport to sneak up quickly and do a "stalk stab strangle" (coz she don't play that "live laugh love" bit, no sir!) is always fun.

You're not getting hit with Psi attacks because your positional defenses are covering for it. If its a ranged psi attack, the game takes the higher of your range and psi defense and uses that.

Gulbasaur · October 29, 2019

2 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

You're not getting hit with Psi attacks because your positional defenses are covering for it. If its a ranged psi attack, the game takes the higher of your range and psi defense and uses that.

Well put.

There are a handful of non-positional psi attacks, but they're so rare they're basically worth ignoring.

Shockacon · October 29, 2019

4 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

You're not getting hit with Psi attacks because your positional defenses are covering for it. If its a ranged psi attack, the game takes the higher of your range and psi defense and uses that.

Gyah! That never dawned on me even thoug it makes so much sense that it should've... You know for as much and as long as I've played this game one would think I'd have a better grasp on all the mechanics for it rather than the usual "Is it moving? Stab it until it ain't!" theory. *Sigh* such is the life of a night widow with stabbing tendencies I suppose...

But seriously, that also explains a couple of smaller things I had wondered about but not often enough to question anyone about. Thanks.

Vulpoid · November 9, 2019

My Night Widow is in the mid 30s, and it seems I have more slots than I know what to do with!
Using JUST BASIC IOs, No funny named sets... just the basic crafted IOs...Acc, Dam..etc...
How would you slot stuff? How would you slot the Tactical Trainings, Foresight, Mind Link, Mental Training, Mask Presence ?
I six slotted most attacks 1 acc 3 dam 1 end 1 rech, but I am afraid I am wasting slots on the Widow Teamwork stuff.
Any help would be appreciated!
Thanks!

Gulbasaur · November 9, 2019

5 hours ago, Vulpoid said:

How would you slot stuff? How would you slot the Tactical Trainings, Foresight, Mind Link, Mental Training, Mask Presence ?
I six slotted most attacks 1 acc 3 dam 1 end 1 rech, but I am afraid I am wasting slots on the Widow Teamwork stuff.

I've done my best, but have included a couple of the special effect IOs where I think they make a real difference. Think of them as something to work up to rather than something you need. I wrote a little guide of the ones I think give you good bang for your buck here. Widows are actually fairly easy to slot because they have a lot of one-slot wonders or powers that only really do one thing.

TT: Maneuvers: 3 defence, maybe 1 endurance - it has a high defence buff (5%) so you want to make the most of this.

TT: Leadership: 3 ToHit, maybe 1 endurance (if you can afford it, it's worth putting the Gaussian's "Chance for Build Up" proc in it as it goes really often when you're in a team, which gives you a fairly nice damage boost).

TT: Assault: 1 endurance reduction only.

Indominable Will: 1 endurance reduction only (but if you go for named IOs it can take a couple of the "special effect" damage resistance ones that can help a lot with survival).

Foresight: 7.5% defence is really high for a power that costs no endurance, so slot it for 3 defence as soon as you can (it can also take special effect resistance IOs).

Mask Presence: The defence buff is quite low (two thirds of it vanishes in combat) - I use it for a LOTG IO and nothing else. If you're going for zero fancy IOs, I'd put one defence or one endurance reduction in it and nothing more.

Mind Link is a big deal and is really powerful, but you can't reduce its recharge much without IOs. Even if you use zero others, it's worth getting named IOs for just this power - look for defence/recharge ones and put all you can it - I think there are Hamidon origin enhancements that do this very efficiently? Until that point, put 3 defence in it.

Elude is already really powerful - 3-slots of recharge will go a long way in getting it to feel more useful more often. It doesn't need any defence enhancements in it.

Edited November 9, 2019 by Gulbasaur

Vulpoid · November 9, 2019

Thank you so much!
That helps me a great deal....

Doctor Fortune	Soulwright	Mother Blight	Brightwarden	Storm Lantern	King Solar	Corona Borealis
Blood Fortunado	Dark/Dark Corruptor	Rad/Rad Brute	Gravity/Time Controller	Storm/Water Defender	Peacebringer	Dark/Dark Tanker

The Good Missions Guide: A Heroic Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Blueside Guide	Easy IO Cheat Sheet
The Mean Missions Guide: A Villainous Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Redside Guide	Fortunatas are the Bestunatas

Doctor Fortune	Soulwright	Mother Blight	Brightwarden	Storm Lantern	King Solar	Corona Borealis
Blood Fortunado	Dark/Dark Corruptor	Rad/Rad Brute	Gravity/Time Controller	Storm/Water Defender	Peacebringer	Dark/Dark Tanker

The Good Missions Guide: A Heroic Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Blueside Guide	Easy IO Cheat Sheet
The Mean Missions Guide: A Villainous Levelling Journey through Story Arcs Redside Guide	Fortunatas are the Bestunatas

Doctor Fortune	Soulwright	Mother Blight	Brightwarden	Storm Lantern	King Solar	Corona Borealis
Blood Fortunado	Dark/Dark Corruptor	Rad/Rad Brute	Gravity/Time Controller	Storm/Water Defender	Peacebringer	Dark/Dark Tanker

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Night Widow Build -- comments appreciated

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