Quintessential Fire/Kin Build

[longdayinrehab]

Hey, all, back on live I never really played any controllers higher than the mid-teens. I was much more into blasting and tanking. Now that I can play again, I'm looking to play as many of those ATs I never gave much of a chance to.

 

I've been seeing here and there that fire/kin is a great combo, and I'm looking for the quintessential fire/kin build to play as my first attempt at getting a controller into the higher levels.

 

Any help is appreciated. It's so good to be home again.

[longdayinrehab]

Awesome, thanks for the links!

[Hyperstrike]

Also, would you prefer a more Tanky Fire/Kin?
Or would you just prefer a "balls-to-the-wall" speed demon?

[longdayinrehab]

If you have something different than what is posted, by all means I'd love to see it. I'm a sucker for options to test out.

[Nemu]

Not a big fan of the builds posted in that fire/kin guide. The core survival/buff powers have no accuracy slotted and some are picked late and slotted poorly. Those builds do have tactics but I prefer slotting some Accuracy in transfusion and transference at the very least.

 

This is what I'm running with. Some will lament not having bonfire but I made do on live when there was no KB>KD and I make do now without it. If you really want it you can drop siphon power, I wouldn't, personal preference.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Nemu: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Kinetics
Power Pool: Sorcery
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(3), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(5), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(40)
Level 1: Transfusion -- TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(A), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(29), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(43), ThfofEss-Acc/Heal(43), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(9), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(9)
Level 4: Mystic Flight -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(48)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 8: Arcane Bolt -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(11), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(13), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(13), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(15)
Level 10: Siphon Speed -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(39)
Level 12: Flashfire -- AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(A), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(17), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(17), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(21), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(39)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15)
Level 16: Increase Density -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 18: Cinders -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(19), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(19), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(21), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(39)
Level 20: Speed Boost -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(25), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(43)
Level 24: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(36), HO:Ribo(37)
Level 26: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(27), RedFrt-Def(27)
Level 28: Rune of Protection -- Ags-ResDam/Rchg(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Ags-ResDam(36), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 30: Hot Feet -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(33)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- CaltoArm-Acc/Rchg(A), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(33), CaltoArm-Dmg/EndRdx(34), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), CaltoArm-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(36)
Level 35: Transference -- EffAdp-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(37), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(37), EffAdp-Acc/Rchg(42), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(50)
Level 38: Fulcrum Shift -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(40)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(42), RedFrt-Def(42)
Level 44: Disruptor Blast -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg(45), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(45), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(45), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(46), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(46)
Level 47: Summon Tarantula -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(50), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(50)
Level 49: Siphon Power -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Diamagnetic Core Flawless Interface
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Rularuu Core Superior Ally
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
------------

 

 

 

 

[Erydanus]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 6:26 PM, Nemu said:

Not a big fan of the builds posted in that fire/kin guide. The core survival/buff powers have no accuracy slotted and some are picked late and slotted poorly. Those builds do have tactics but I prefer slotting some Accuracy in transfusion and transference at the very least.

I took a peek at one of those builds and I see what you mean. They six-slotted Preventive Medicine into a heal that requires a tohit check, I'm guessing maybe for the recharge time bonus. To me this is a case of chasing a set bonus down a rabbit hole and crippling the power. This kind of thing is why I get very leery when people reflexively say they're going to cap smashing/lethal defense on say, a controller. It's possible, but at what cost to maladapted slotting? And is it really necessary? With a Fire/Kin I can absolutely see wanting a good chunk of defenses specifically because you are going to wade into melee and stand there a few seconds while using fulcrum shift and fire cages and hot feet; even so I'd never trade basic effectiveness to do that. There's other slotting weirdness in one of them I looked at - slotting fire cages for immobilize but slotting flashfire for damage with Positron's blast. O … kay.

 

To the OP, and maybe anyone reading out of general curiosity who doesn't know what really goes on with Fire/Kins once you hit 38 and have Fulcrum Shift to become a living blaze of destruction, let me break it down for you:

 

1. You run into a group using some combination of smoke, superspeed or other stealth powers to not get instantly creamed, superspeed is really ideal because you leave the monkeys behind for a few seconds and don't aggro the group prematurely; stealth proc in sprint can also be handy

2. Establish containment and keep yourself alive, typically by using the PBAOE stun Flashfire

3. Use Fulcrum Shift point blank, the multiplicity of the way the power works will almost certainly put you to the damage cap immediately and typically your fire imps will have caught up to the spawn at this point so they should get buffed too

4. At this point you're now standing in a group of stunned mobs with your damage at cap and Hot Feet on. Hot Feet gets containment damage so you're going to be dishing out something like 35+35 damage with every tick.

5. You now double-down on the scenario by locking them in place with Fire Cages, or on Homecoming maybe a Bonfire with the knockback turned to knockdown (bonfire is actually pretty high damage). You may need to use Fire Cages to maintain containment or even use Cinders to hold tougher foes that aren't melted within the first 5-10 seconds--whatever works for you in the situation. Once you're a few seconds in the attacks may start coming as your foes are being cooked alive so there's where having some defense (as well as Transfusion) may come in handy. Keep up containment and rip them with some AoE epic attacks.  Your damage capped pets should also ripping the foes into pieces but really the main damage of this setup is traditionally contained Hot Feet + Fire Cages.  Note that this playstyle was fully capable of being obtained with nothing but SOs, using IOs will only increase the speed of the process and your ability to do this against higher difficulty foes.

 

Anyway I hope this sheds some helpful light on the classic destructive methodology of the Fire/Kin and why Fire Cages, Smoke, Hot Feet, Flashfire, Bonfire, and Fire Imps all were traditionally in the build. I'd also like to point out this playstyle existed before inherent stamina, so in actuality whenever anyone says Hot Feet is too expensive to take at a low level, they're talking from obsolete memory. It IS an expensive power costing 1.04 end/second but precisely because of that, end reduction has a huge immediate impact. As long as you slot stamina and get some end reduction in it, it is viable to run it at much lower levels. Avalanche looks like a really good set to stick in it, the chance to knockdown should trigger quite well considering the 20 second base cooldown on the power.

 

[Krazie Ivan]

concern over slotted Acc is def warranted, but (depending on the build) i don't think it's entirely needed. all my ToHit-check type powers seem to be in the upper 90's Acc (at the lowest, some are far higher) just from set bonuses. combined with the usual Kismet + Tactics, they don't miss any more than powers slotted with Acc even if solo against +3/+4. i honestly don't know the exact math, but i do know some of both Acc & ToHit is better than a lot of just one.

[Nemu]

I'm not going to pretend I'm a CoH mechanics guru so this is taken from a quick search on the wiki on how hit chance works.

 

Assuming incarnate shift fighting effectively +3 mobs, the guide fire/kin/mace build has transfusion sitting at 6%(kismet)+12%(tactics)+48%(base to hit against +3s) = 66% to hit x 104%(transfusion acc tooltip with tactics and CJ turned off) = 68% hit chance.

 

My build without tactics or kismet has transfusion sitting at 48% base to hit x 191%(acc from tooltip in mids) = 92% hit chance. I have no room for leadership pool but I can easily swap a slot around for kismet which brings hit chance to (48+6)=54% to hit x 191% = 1.03 but really 95% hit chance.

 

There are powers in the fire/kin toolkit that I'm ok with missing, siphon power/speed/epic blast... I'm not ok with missing with transfusion and transference, especially if I'm not running Ageless for the latter. It's just personal preference because obviously there are people running builds with no acc in either powers and if they do well then great for them.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Nemu

[Caldazar4]

I know I'm late to the party.  It's completely valid and especially to say that transfusion and transference should be hitting at 95%.  You don't want it to miss.  I don't run /Mace that often so it might not have enough accuracy, but I assure you that Transfusion and Transference hit at 95% whenever I'm doing incarnate content with my Fire/Kin/Fire.  See the attached combat log from a BAF I ran.   

 

I can't really speak to the math on the website but my thought process was there was enough with my own tactics and other various accuracy bonuses and yes, sure, buffs from allies, that when I'm actually using my powers they are hitting at 95%.  The combat logs show it hitting at 95% so I'm happy with the accuracy.

 

But again, fundamentally agree that these powers need to be as much autohit as possible, just wanted to stick up for my builds to show that they achieve this.  Also I didn't really really care what levels I took which powers just wanted to get them all down in MIDS, so yeah, that's not going to be good for exemplaring or levelling. 

 

 

 

BAF Combat Log.txt

Edited January 8, 2020 by Caldazar4