DP/Ice lf build advice

[Generator]

Hey guys,

 

So I had a DP/Ice Blaster back in the day and I think it's time to get her going again.  Anyone got a good "general starting point" build handy, or even just some general tips/advice on things that worked for you with this combo?  (I'm away from my Mids PC right now, which is why I'm asking here instead of noodling around Mids myself.)

 

Thanks,

Generator

[oldskool]

This sounds like a fun pairing.  Would you seek to run Cryo Ammo most, if not all, of the time?

 

Some food for thought about Dual Pistols...

 

Pistols and Dual Wield are both potentially worth having.  That's not because of how the inherent works with Defiance, but because how they interact with the rest of the set.  Pistols and Dual Wield are actually pretty close to each other in the terms of damage per activation (Pistols is slightly ahead).  Both of these powers accept a multitude of procs if you can fit them in.  Even if you can't fit those in they can still form a foundation of a solid attack sequence with Executioner's Shot.  An attack combo of Pistols/Dual Wield/Executioner's Shot can be pretty effective and its available to every archetype with this set.  

 

Suppressive Fire will become a hold when running any elemental ammo.  This means it has some use cases and synergy with Freezing Touch (2 holds!).  There is a lot of slotting potential in either or both.  Maybe not be your cup of tea, but I have ideas...

 

After playing through Dual Pistols on the other 3 ATs (Corruptor, Defender, and Sentinel), Piercing Rounds is a wild card pick vs being a mandatory one.  Blasters and Corruptors both get an ATO set with a damage proc.  Piercing Rounds can potentially make good use of that set if you're interested.  Its got a slow animation though which can feel like a drag.  Still, this has potential but I really recommend you run it in your build for a bit to see if you like it.  I pretty much ignore the existence of the resistance debuff in the power EXCEPT for my Defender.  On the Defender that -20% resistance becomes a reason why I have the power in the first place.  On my Corruptor it is one of those nice to have in my back pocket for team support (-15%).  On my Sentinel, I just say screw it and don't bother juggling ammo powers.  In practice that -9.6% isn't worth the trouble of turning ammo on and off.  If I remember right, the Blaster version gets the same -9.6%.  If its higher then it can be something to consider.  YMMV though.

The rest of Dual Pistols builds itself.  Empty Clips, Bullet Rain, Swap Ammo (important for stacking slow effects!) and Hail of Bullets are pretty much givens to me.

Edited February 18, 2020 by oldskool

[Generator]

11 minutes ago, oldskool said:

This sounds like a fun pairing.  Would you seek to run Cryo Ammo most, if not all, of the time?

Yeah, the plan is to run Cryo Ammo pretty much all the time (keeping with her ice theme, this is one of several characters of mine that all tie into a related story concept).

 

TYVM for the tips on the power set!  It's been ages since I used DP, so anything I ever knew is gone for now. Looking forward to re-making my acquaintance with the set.  🙂

 

Later on,

Generator

[Generator]

So I managed to find the build I was working toward when I did this back in the day.  I think I'd like to keep the powers I'm using as they are, but slotting and sets are totally open to reinterpretation.  Love to see any feedback on this!

 

Generator

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Norn Avenger: Level 50 Natural Blaster
Primary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Secondary Power Set: Ice Manipulation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Cold Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Pistols -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Chilblain -- EnfOpr-Acc/EndRdx(A)
Level 2: Dual Wield -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(9), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Empty Clips -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(15), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(15), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(17), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 6: Swap Ammo
Level 8: Fly -- Frb-Fly(A), Frb-Stlth(19)
Level 10: Frigid Protection -- Empty(A), Empty(21), Empty(21), Empty(23)
Level 12: Suppressive Fire -- Lck-Acc/Hold(A), Lck-Acc/Rchg(23), Lck-Rchg/Hold(25), Lck-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(25), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(27), Lck-%Hold(27)
Level 14: Hover -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(29), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(29)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 18: Executioner's Shot -- Thn-Acc/Dmg(A), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(31), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(31), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 22: Ice Sword -- Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg(A), Mk'Bit-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Mk'Bit-Dmg/Rchg(34), Mk'Bit-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mk'Bit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mk'Bit-Dam%(36)
Level 24: Bullet Rain -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(36), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(36), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(37), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 26: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 28: Shiver -- TmpRdn-Acc/Slow(A), TmpRdn-Acc/EndRdx(39), TmpRdn-Rng/Slow(39), TmpRdn-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(39)
Level 30: Afterburner -- Flight-I(A)
Level 32: Hail of Bullets -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(40), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42), Obl-%Dam(42)
Level 35: Freezing Touch -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(43), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Lck-Acc/Hold(43), Lck-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45)
Level 38: Snow Storm -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(45), Slow-I(45)
Level 41: Frozen Armor -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(46), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), LucoftheG-Def(46), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 44: Hoarfrost -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(48), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(48), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Hibernate -- NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(50), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EffAdp-EndMod(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(13), EffAdp-EndMod/Acc(13)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 50: Agility Partial Radial Revamp
Level 6: Chemical Ammunition
Level 6: Cryo Ammunition
Level 6: Incendiary Ammunition
Level 1: Quick Form
------------

 

 

[oldskool]

You can squeeze in two more LoTGs if you want.  Afterburner can drop the flight speed for one, and you could drop a slot from Flight for another into Hover.  You'd be missing out on about 7 mph of travel speed from what you initially had, if that matters to you.  The 8% regen from Freebird isn't something you'll miss.  Keep the stealth there or not... 

 

Can do whatever you like on Frigid Protection, but the Preventative Medicine set isn't too pricey.  The Absorb proc functions off a condition (low health).  Still, another source of absorb is never a bad thing and you're currently missing out on it.  

 

That's about as far as I'd go on advice without shuffling slots completely in order to grab specific set bonuses. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by oldskool

[Generator]

Hey,

 

Thanks so much for taking another look. I could certainly look at getting those two additional LOTGs in there.

 

I think she had Chilling Embrace 1-slotted back on Live.  I can't recall from where I stripped those three slots, but getting 4 in there seemed enough to at least get started.

 

18 minutes ago, oldskool said:

That's about as far as I'd go on advice without shuffling slots completely in order to grab specific set bonuses. 

If you're willing to do a complete reshuffle, I'm listening!  I tend to eschew the "Proc Monster" mindset (like, I know guys who would happily slot Suppressive Fire with an Acc and 5 procs, but that's not my style).  I don't need her to be softcapped, and I don't need to be able to solo +4/x8s.  With that in mind, I'll gladly take a look at how to improve her performance.  (Looking at her, for instance, she's lacking both ATO sets, so I could clearly put those somewhere.)

 

Thanks again for your time, have a great day.

[oldskool]

1 hour ago, Generator said:

If you're willing to do a complete reshuffle, I'm listening!  I tend to eschew the "Proc Monster" mindset (like, I know guys who would happily slot Suppressive Fire with an Acc and 5 procs, but that's not my style).  I don't need her to be softcapped, and I don't need to be able to solo +4/x8s.  With that in mind, I'll gladly take a look at how to improve her performance.  (Looking at her, for instance, she's lacking both ATO sets, so I could clearly put those somewhere.)

Challenge accepted... 

I didn't opt for a full rebuild ala Pimp My Ride.  You avoided purple sets and so I didn't include any.  You mentioned the ATOs so I put those in.  So I ultimately just shuffled some ideas around to see where it could go.  Hopefully, the identity of the character is still here.  

 

My thought process: 

 

Basilisk's Gaze - 4pcs are pretty good sets and you can get them in two powers (that's +7.5% recharge x2 that works with LoTG and slight ranged defense).  

Kismet in Hover - Keeps you accurate on +4 enemies.  You don't need to solo +4/x8 but I'd wager you'd still like to hit them if you team up. 

Avoided procs - Ok, there are procs in the ATO and in Obliteration, but they aren't focal points of the build. 

Preventative Medicine - 8.75% recharge

Reactive Defenses - See Preventative Medicine.  As an alternative you can go 5x Red Fortune + 1 LotG for even more global recharge.  I don't think you need it at this point and I happen to like the bonuses for this set. 

More total Global Recharge without Hasten [Though Agility was already selected] - 100% ain't too shabby.  Build-Up (Gaussian's proc... c'mon gotta have it) and Hail of Bullets available in just under 35 seconds.  Hoarfrost a bit over a minute of downtime.  Smooth sailing pistol shots of Executioner's Shot -> Pistols -> Dual Wield -> Pistols.  Under ANY outside recharge effects OR the constant low bonus of Ageless (if you take it) you can shorten that to just Executioner's Shot -> Dual Wield -> Pistols.  You can weave in Ice Sword or Chillblain as you like or stack holds from Suppressive Fire and Freezing Touch.  World's your oyster there.  The losses of some recharge bonuses if you exemplar lower aren't that horrible.  Using Pistols twice to every Dual Wield means Executioner's Shot can take as long as 4.224 seconds to recharge.  You also have other powers to fill gaps, but this largely won't be a problem.  

End for days.  Frigid Protection already gets you a ton of endurance and Dual Pistols isn't super end-intensive when built like this.  

Hoarfrost slotting - It looks like you're going to cap HP with Hoarfrost and you won't be too far off with Accolades.  So I opted to think a little outside of the box and go for Unbreakable Guard for the minor end discount, energy/neg resist and slight smash/lethal defense.  

Hover speed is going to be slower but still it is as fast (slight faster) as Sprint + Swift.  So that shouldn't too painful.  Flight can keep the original set if you really like it.  

 

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Edited February 21, 2020 by oldskool

[Generator]

Dude, so grateful for the help.  Thanks so much!  I'll pop this open in Mids at first opportunity.

[Generator]

Hey there,

 

So I got a chance to pop this open in Mids, and it's great stuff, a nice boost while staying true to what I was doing.  A few questions, in pursuit of fine-tuning:

 

• I don't think I need the full BOTZ set in Hover anymore (I wish I could ask 2011 me, "Dude, what were you going for here?").  I could probably strip out the Speed/End piece, and move that slot somewhere, right? (My first impulse is to put a Dmg IO into Freezing Touch.)
• As long as I'm in the Positron's Blast sets for the AOEs, should I use the proc?  I didn't mean to imply that I'm against using procs at all times, but I'm not down with the build philosophy that says use six procs in your power.
• Shiver: will I get enough mileage out of this power to bother with it?
• Good call getting the slots out of Hibernate.  If I need it more than every 90s, something has gone terribly wrong.  🙂

 

Again, thank you very much for the help here.  I'm in a phase where I'm trying to recreate about a dozen characters at once and my feeble old brain is creaking under the strain.

 

Later on,

Generator

[oldskool]

On 2/22/2020 at 9:35 AM, Generator said:

 

• I don't think I need the full BOTZ set in Hover anymore (I wish I could ask 2011 me, "Dude, what were you going for here?").  I could probably strip out the Speed/End piece, and move that slot somewhere, right? (My first impulse is to put a Dmg IO into Freezing Touch.)
• As long as I'm in the Positron's Blast sets for the AOEs, should I use the proc?  I didn't mean to imply that I'm against using procs at all times, but I'm not down with the build philosophy that says use six procs in your power.
• Shiver: will I get enough mileage out of this power to bother with it?

1) Sure, totally up to you!  Having more move speed for Hover is always nice.  I like to check the speed it can get up with global bonuses vs default Swift + Sprint.  If I can meet or exceed that with no real slotting investment, then I am happy.  I'll use actual Fly (and Afterburner if I take it) for real door-to-door speed. 

2) I think so.  You can take all but the damage/recharge for just about any attack.  Since the power at that point wouldn't run with modified recharge the proc just becomes better at its bonus damage. 

3) That's a good question and it is impossible for me to answer without playing your build (which I haven't).  Shiver is a cone which seems like it is a bit more ideal to open with from range while other powers like Chilling Embrace are PBAoE centered on you.  Most of your other powers in Ice (except the mention of Chilling Embrace) are single target for applying slows.  Your Cryo Ammo attacks with AoE coverage would be Empty Clips/Bullet Rain... I guess Hail of Bullets as an opener.  Shiver could be overkill too.

[Vanden]

I would highly recommend looking into Intuition alpha. Damage, Range, Slow, Hold, all things you could benefit from.

Edited March 3, 2020 by Vanden

[Generator]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

I would highly recommend looking into Spiritual alpha. Damage, Range, Slow, Hold, all things you could benefit from.

I think that's Intuition, but yeah, all of those things will work for this build.  I think the -Def and -ToHit are the only unused parts of the figurative buffalo in this case.

 

Thanks for the suggestion!

[Vanden]

24 minutes ago, Generator said:

I think that's Intuition, but yeah, all of those things will work for this build.  I think the -Def and -ToHit are the only unused parts of the figurative buffalo in this case.

Yeah, my mistake, I meant Intuition.

[Generator]

Call it Francesca if you want to, it was still a great suggestion.  😁 Thanks!