A possible tweak to let Mastermind Henchmen farm on +4?

[Crux Reincarnate]

Let low level henchmen treat enemies as +4, maximum, up to a 7 level disadvantage. Since your weakest henchmen are two levels below you, they will routinely be coming across +7 enemies in high difficulty farms, putting them at a crippling disadvantage that other ATs simply don't have to contend with.

 

By allowing them to do damage to foes at a consistent level disadvantage cap, they can remain much more relevant as you tackle higher difficulty missions. I think this small change, if possible to implement, could dramatically improve the MM Archetype's quality of life.

[Burnt Toast]

You said farm and missions... totally different things. FYI I have seen some great MM farmers running +4x8. I doubt they are going to change the MM level mechanic just so people can farm btw.

 

 

Let low level henchmen treat enemies as +4, maximum, up to a 7 level disadvantage. Since your weakest henchmen are two levels below you, they will routinely be coming across +7 enemies in high difficulty farms, putting them at a crippling disadvantage that other ATs simply don't have to contend with.

 

By allowing them to do damage to foes at a consistent level disadvantage cap, they can remain much more relevant as you tackle higher difficulty missions. I think this small change, if possible to implement, could dramatically improve the MM Archetype's quality of life.

[Crux Reincarnate]

Is farming bad when Masterminds try to do it?

 

As a mastermind, your damage is nerfed at a rate much higher than other ATs. It's not balanced. I've also never seen a MM farm a x8+4 on their own and challenge your contention. +7 enemies will one shot your henchmen. It doesn't strike me as physically possible to do at any rate that makes it worthwhile.

 

This is not something that can be solved by trying hard or playing better. You are mechanically gated at a rate that no other AT is gated at. Imagine a brute's most efficient damaging powers working at a 10% efficiency. This is the issue I am propsing a solution to. Not a buff - just a negation of the mechanical gate that prevents you t2s and t3s from damaging +3, 4 and 5 enemies like they should.

[Vanden]

The only time the game is actually balanced around fighting +4 enemies is in incarnate trials, and Supremacy already grants incarnate shifts to henchman during trials to make them at least 50. Outside of that, being able to fight all-purple enemies is not an intended feature of the game, just a bonus for powerfully-built characters.

[Burnt Toast]

Exactly. What's next asking for a Defender damage boost so an Emp, Force Fielder, etc can farm +4 as quickly as a brute? LOL. Seems people want changes not to make the game better but to make them have an "I win" button. Want a character that can farm +4x8... brutes...controller...etc... roll one of them. Not every AT or power combo is going to be able to handle +4x8... MM are not th eonly ones who can't do this. There is no need to revamp an AT because it's not uber enough to keep up with others... to farm. There are benefits and Cons to every AT for a reason.

 

 

The only time the game is actually balanced around fighting +4 enemies is in incarnate trials, and Supremacy already grants incarnate shifts to henchman during trials to make them at least 50. Outside of that, being able to fight all-purple enemies is not an intended feature of the game, just a bonus for powerfully-built characters.

[Crux Reincarnate]

The only time the game is actually balanced around fighting +4 enemies is in incarnate trials, and Supremacy already grants incarnate shifts to henchman during trials to make them at least 50. Outside of that, being able to fight all-purple enemies is not an intended feature of the game, just a bonus for powerfully-built characters.

 

I find the concept of Masterminds being the sole class unallowed to fight +4s on even footing to be a quality of life issue. I never really thought of it as a possible debate. What legitimate cause is there to deny the MM class from doing what any other class theoretically can? The idea that MMs just shouldn't be allowed? :P

 

If it's a bonus for powerfully built classes, then MMs should be able to achieve that same bonus, the same as any other archetype. Whether farming alone or playing with friends, I feel like a Mastermind should be able to contribute in the same way that another archetype does. Do you disagree?

[Vanden]

The only time the game is actually balanced around fighting +4 enemies is in incarnate trials, and Supremacy already grants incarnate shifts to henchman during trials to make them at least 50. Outside of that, being able to fight all-purple enemies is not an intended feature of the game, just a bonus for powerfully-built characters.

 

I find the concept of Masterminds being the sole class unallowed to fight +4s on even footing to be a quality of life issue. I never really thought of it as a possible debate. What legitimate cause is there to deny the MM class from doing what any other class theoretically can? The idea that MMs just shouldn't be allowed? :P

 

If it's a bonus for powerfully built classes, then MMs should be able to achieve that same bonus, the same as any other archetype. Whether farming alone or playing with friends, I feel like a Mastermind should be able to contribute in the same way that another archetype does. Do you disagree?

 

Being able to fight +4s is not an explicit goal of any class or build combination. If they can? Great. If they can't, they weren't intended to anyway.

[Crux Reincarnate]

The only time the game is actually balanced around fighting +4 enemies is in incarnate trials, and Supremacy already grants incarnate shifts to henchman during trials to make them at least 50. Outside of that, being able to fight all-purple enemies is not an intended feature of the game, just a bonus for powerfully-built characters.

 

I find the concept of Masterminds being the sole class unallowed to fight +4s on even footing to be a quality of life issue. I never really thought of it as a possible debate. What legitimate cause is there to deny the MM class from doing what any other class theoretically can? The idea that MMs just shouldn't be allowed? :P

 

If it's a bonus for powerfully built classes, then MMs should be able to achieve that same bonus, the same as any other archetype. Whether farming alone or playing with friends, I feel like a Mastermind should be able to contribute in the same way that another archetype does. Do you disagree?

 

Being able to fight +4s is not an explicit goal of any class or build combination. If they can? Great. If they can't, they weren't intended to anyway.

 

+4 was not a feature when the game was released. The Mastermind was overlooked, not specifically designed to be inferior at certain difficulty levels - hence the QoL suggestion. :P

 

Note that, again, this is not me asking for a buff. Rather, I am asking for minions to be allowed to do damage to the same foes the Mastermind can do damage to. You wouldn't be cheating. You would simply be allowed to participate.

[Replacement]

I'd like to reframe this. Instead of focusing on unintended high-level solo play, let's assume:

-Low- moderate levels of optimization ("I pay attention to IOs on the market and make intelligent decisions but don't meticulously study the hero builder")

-Team play.

-Every team is expected to be able to take on +4s.  That's the state of this legally-dead game.

I think it's safe to say that is the median player in mind and expected experience most mechanics were designed around. Or close to it. So with reasonable assumptions in place, my question boils down to:

 

Will an MM's pets contribute, outside of just being sacrifice for the alpha?

[Mikazuki]

I think this is more of an issue of actual power selection vs archetype.

 

Because honestly, out of all archetypes, masterminds are the least fair ones.

 

I'm sure people who have invested hundreds of millions on their builds can do anything regardless, but talking about your run-of-the-mill player that just got to 50:

 

If you're not playing Bots, Thugs, Demons or (to a lesser extent) mercs, you're going to have a bad time at +4s. And yes most of your things will be crushed by the alpha.

 

Secondary powers also matter a lot, dark is amazing for soloing but when in a party going against +4s when your build is less than perfect, dont expect to do much.

 

MMs can be /rad now, and help your team shower debuffs. that along with time, pain, FF and (to a lesser extent) empath, are great sets that dont require a lot of investment and already provide a ton of assistance to your team.

 

So yeah if you just rolled a Ninja/Traps and is upset that you cant do a thing against +4s, i feel you, but that requires a -LOT- of investment to be any good.

 

 

ps: I'm assuming group non-AE farms.

 

If you are talking about AE farms, just give up and roll a brute or fire/kin already and call it a day. lol