Controller vs Dominator?

[Ultimo]

So, I've been tinkering, trying to come up with the best way to build a character.  He's a pure telepath, able to read and control minds and thoughts.  Think Professor X.  He's blind, and can "see" by constantly taking visual information from the minds of everyone around him.

 

Anyway, the issue I'm having is I can't decide whether he's better off being a Dominator or a Controller.

 

Initially, I made him a Dominator, as this gives him access to two Psychic sets, Mind Control and Psychic Assault.  However, I kept coming up against foes that were immune (or nearly so) to his controls, such as the Arachnos Lieutenants in Manticore's mansion (Twinshot's questline).  When faced with such foes, he was completely defenseless, as his only defense is his ability to HOLD his enemy.  If he can't do that, he's just dead.

 

So, I recreated him as a Controller, using Mind Control and Empathy, figuring the Empathy set is about emotional control or some such.  It can be rationalized.  I figured that when facing foes capable of ignoring the holds, I'd at least have access to a heal I could use to defend myself with.  Right away, I noticed the Controller was doing a LOT more damage to the various street thugs in Atlas.  The Dominator would take 4-6 attacks to take down a white minion.  The Controller would do it in 2.  So, I was kind of liking that I seemed to have some decent offense and some potential defense (healing).  Finally, I got to Twinshot's missions, and once more faced those Arachnos Lieutenants.  As with the Dominator, they ignored the holds.  However, the healing the Controller was doing was so trivial compared to the damage he was taking, that he wasn't doing any better than the Dominator.  More, his damage was actually worse.  It seems that the Controller does double damage to held foes (?), but less base damage when they're not.  Is this true?

 

For example, the Dominator might hit a foe for 11 damage.  The Controller would hit him for 9.  The Dominator would hit him again for 11, but this time the Controller would hit for 9 damage, but TWICE.  Does this sound correct?

 

In any case, I'm feeling kind of stuck.  Neither one seems to be capable of defending themselves against foes they can't hold.  Am I missing something?  What do you all suggest?

[Blackfeather]

How effective is Mesmerize against such targets as opposed to Dominate? Sleeps tend not to be protected against all that much.

[Ultimo]

28 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

How effective is Mesmerize against such targets as opposed to Dominate? Sleeps tend not to be protected against all that much.

I'm not seeing much difference.  SOMETIMES the Mez will work, but most of the time it won't (I mean against these specific foes, they're both effective against normal ones).

[Blackfeather]

27 minutes ago, Ultimo said:

I'm not seeing much difference.  SOMETIMES the Mez will work, but most of the time it won't (I mean against these specific foes, they're both effective against normal ones).

Enemies have an in-built level of status effect protection, some higher than others - it's why Dominate (and all holds) will eventually cause an enemy to be Held with sufficient applications, since their effects will stack in magnitude. Mesmerize's effects tend to be strong enough to work in a single shot, even on bosses.

 

Additionally, Levitate can work excellently as a means of soft control to provide you with the opportunity to apply further Holds onto opponents - Dominate, followed by Levitate, followed by Dominate again. They can't attack if they're flying in the air, after all.

[Ultimo]

3 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Enemies have an in-built level of status effect protection, some higher than others - it's why Dominate (and all holds) will eventually cause an enemy to be Held with sufficient applications, since their effects will stack in magnitude. Mesmerize's effects tend to be strong enough to work in a single shot, even on bosses.

 

Additionally, Levitate can work excellently as a means of soft control to provide you with the opportunity to apply further Holds onto opponents - Dominate, followed by Levitate, followed by Dominate again. They can't attack if they're flying in the air, after all.

Ya, that might be more effective, but the character is all telepathy, no telekinesis.

[Redlynne]

4 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Ya, that might be more effective, but the character is all telepathy, no telekinesis.

A "pure" psionic who is all telepathy (and nothing else) is a One Trick Pony™ who going to have serious problems when fighting $Targets that resist psionic damage ... and the number of $Targets who do that is not a short list.  When psionic damage is resisted, it is resisted HEAVILY by NPCs.

[Blackfeather]

13 hours ago, Ultimo said:

Ya, that might be more effective, but the character is all telepathy, no telekinesis.

If it affects your RP sensibilities, it might be a good idea to flavour Levitate as convincing the enemy to fling themselves into the air, triggering a muscle spasm.

[Redlynne]

It's not levitating them ... it's just mentally controlling them to Pratfall ... UP ... 

[Tugzug]

Mind Control works better on Dominator than Controller, from my experience. There's also a solid workaround for the issue of pure psionic damage--procs! Unfortunately this can be a double edged sword, as Dominators tend to want all the recharge in set bonuses as they can, which procs get in the way of to an extent. But if you sprinkle some procs around you can alleviate your solo psionic damage... not by a lot, but it's something!

 

Alternatively, you could pick a different Assault secondary and color it to look like psionics. That probably breaks the aesthetic you're going for, but it's an option.

[Peacemoon]

Mind control is a great set, and I have a character who is similarly psychic based who I’ve been debating whether to remake as a Dom/Controller (on retail he was Mind/Storm, but I want I change that).

 

Psy resistant enemies do make me feel slightly cautious with Mind control/psych Dom. However levitate is smashing and you can add procs which will do different damage types. Also having an Achilles heel can make the character more interesting (and realistic?)

 

I also thought of Mins control/empathy for similar reasons. The character has psychic powers, and immense capabilities to empathise with others hardship. Thematically I like this for him, but it makes him far too team dependent for my liking. Particularly as Mind Control has no pet, so you can’t even buff and heal your pet, like other control sets. So when solo you are effectively Mind control/blank!

 

Other sets that you could try is the martial assault for Doms - gives you access to shurikens and kicks, and despite being blind he could use his psychic powers to focus his martial prowess. This could be quite cool, and gives him access to other damage types. 
 

In terms of damage, controllers do double damage to enemies locked down. They can amplify this with their buff/debuff sets (usually). Controllers are a fun archetype because they grow in power exponentially throughout their career. But like a DnD mage, they start off pretty weak.

Edited March 15, 2020 by Peacemoon

[Redlynne]

6 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

Particularly as Mind Control has no pet

With Confuse ... EVERYTHING short of PToD can (temporarily) be your pet!

 

[Blackfeather]

Just now, Redlynne said:

With Confuse ... EVERYTHING short of PToD can (temporarily) be your pet!

Don't forget the Nemesis faction.

[Redlynne]

12 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Don't forget the Nemesis faction.

Nemesis faction CAN be Confused ... it just takes more than one hit to do so (they've got MAG protection).  If memory serves, the same applies to Arachnos Lieutenants too.  But the point is that with a deep enough MAG stack (meaning multiple casting if necessary) they CAN be Confused and become YOUR Pet.

[Peacemoon]

2 hours ago, Redlynne said:

With Confuse ... EVERYTHING short of PToD can (temporarily) be your pet!

 

Absolutely, but my point was that /Empath powers for Mind Control are largely useless when solo, because so much of it is buffing allies. So it really is team dependent. 
 

I use confuse all the time when solo and it’s great, but it’s not charm and still wouldn’t benefit from /empath buffs. At least you can buff and heal your pet when you pair empath with the other control sets, not that it makes a huge difference probably. 

 

I think to return to topic mind/empath can be really good but like all empaths, you will be more team dependent.

Dominators are better for solo play generally, but later on controllers can match/overtake once they get pets and epic attacks, if they choose more offensive debuffs/buffs sets which can amplify their own damage (storm/rad/dark/kinetics etc).

 

So mind control/psych Dom will probably be more fun when solo for the majority of the game, and still bring good control and damage to teams. It has a much more aggressive style.
Mind/Empath will bring more to a team in terms of support and heal, and you’re more likely to sit back and watch and intervene where you think it’s necessary.

[Coyote]

On 3/11/2020 at 12:01 AM, Ultimo said:

In any case, I'm feeling kind of stuck.  Neither one seems to be capable of defending themselves against foes they can't hold.  Am I missing something?  What do you all suggest?

 

1: For a Mind Control character, a Dominator is definitely a better bet. Mind Control works far better with their abilities. For example, two Dominate-active Holds will Hold a Boss even if it has upgraded Hold resistance.

2: Both Psy Scream and Psy Dart put out a noticeable -Recharge to mobs, so you can lower incoming damage a lot from a single target even if that target is Hold-resistant.

3: Confuse has a longer duration, and also doesn't cause aggro, so fighting harder mobs can become easy if you first stack 2-3 Confuse casts upon it, and then start doing damage.

4: I know it would be expensive for a first-time character, but there is a Knockback to Knockdown conversion IO that can be slotted in Levitate, which would turn it into an unusual knockdown since they won't go far in the air at all. It would probably look quite reasonable for a psychic effect that causes a target to spasm and lose their balance badly.

5: At higher levels, you get Drain Psyche from the Psychic Assault set and that will help a lot with regenerating damage... combine that with slowing down damage with the -Recharge from psychic blasts, and you can tank a good amount of ranged damage from a single boss. It does require going into melee, using Drain Psyche, and then backing out again... but combine with Confuse or Levitate to make them temporarily unable to attack you as you go in and drain them, and it's not terribly dangerous.

6: Also at higher levels, Psychic Assault gets Subdue, which has an Immobilize effect and can keep hard-hitting Bosses away from you with a couple of casts.

[Ultimo]

Thanks for all the input folks, it's making the choice much easier.  I've been leaning toward going to the Dominator, and I believe I'll do so.

 

However, I have created a Controller, so I'll just rename him and come up with a new concept for the character.