IOs and Levelling - A Progression Suggestion/Discussion

[TomatoPhalanges]

Hi folks,

 

So some of you may have seen the idea I put forward in the comments of the latest announcement regarding the SO changes. I'm excited about what they mean for the satisfaction of completing mission arcs, but I believe that the team can go a step further.

 

While mission arc completion rewards are already a thing, outside of the TF/SF system they're mostly generic and identical across the board, save for a few Temp Powers and criteria towards Accolade badges. I propose the implementation of a handful new sets of IOs that are exclusively available at locked levels, and can only be obtained once, via the completion of specific mission arcs.

 

The number of benefits this would have to the game would, in my opinion, be immense:

 

1, Power. As it stands in the game, your levelling experience is dictated almost entirely by your powersets and the points within them that you get significant improvements in your abilities. Those are the points of most excitement as you level- getting that one power you really love, or that changes your entire playstyle to the point of encouraging you to respec. While that's exciting, and fun, and a big part of why I love CoX, it's not, in my opinion, enough to make the levelling experience as fun as it could be. Little bonuses at the end of mission arcs are an exciting method of bumping up a player's power in small but significant and tactile ways- and the SO implementation that is coming up is a good example of that.

 

2. Teaching. As has been complained by a few people at this stage, the IO system is a little obtuse and hidden for newer players to get into, and can end up confusing them or demotivating them to the point of not caring. I feel that providing 'free' IOs from completing content would give people a taste of the power of set bonuses, and motivate them to seek them out more.

 

3. Most significantly: Diversity.

In my concept of the idea, there would be, say, a number of IO sets with individual IOs scattered throughout the game's most significant and/or fun story arcs. Say, for example, the new Skull questline in Kings' Row. That could give an IO reward that would be perhaps a damage/recharge enhancement, and be part of a larger single-target set, but that IO could be set to always be generated as a level 15 enhancement. That individual enhancement could only be found in a handful of arcs, with perhaps two blueside, one goldside and one redside- though you couldn't slot two of the same enhancement, much like the Archetype-themed IO sets. Having a strong variety of IO sets and a good spread of placements of these rewards within arcs would promote players to seek them out based on desires for their build, which would lead to players completing more variety of content than they otherwise would in their levelling process. To stop TFs and SFs from falling behind as desired content, this could all be punctuated with a similar set that's hyper-general (say, a general damage IO set) that drops off of the sub-50 TFs and SFs of the game, one IO each. 

 

Naturally, there are negatives to consider. Running a piece of content you've already run could potentially lose some value to players if these IOs were super common within the game, as you'd only be able to find the IO once, and it's level-locked, so you can't find an improvement on it. The solution to that, I feel, is simply to have a tactful hand as to the spead on the IOs throughout the levelling process, so that you simply aren't able to bounce from one IO mission arc to the next. Another concern, as with all new kinds of power, would be balance. Were a specific IO set unbalanced, it might cause players to ignore certain content due to a specific set of the IOs being underpowered, even if that set was more designed with their builds and ideas in mind.

 

This is still a fledgeling concept, but I feel like it has some value, and I would love to propegate a discussion on the concept of diversifying rewards for mission arcs and providing players reasons to complete more out-of-the-way arcs than they ususally do in their levelling process. Thank you for reading!

[Doc_Scorpion]

6 minutes ago, TomatoPhalanges said:

I propose the implementation of a handful new sets of IOs that are exclusively available at locked levels, and can only be obtained once, via the completion of specific mission arcs.

Hard [censored] /jranger

You want a game filled with powerleveled and then discarded toons who exist only to farm rare IO's?  This is exactly how you get such a game.

[TomatoPhalanges]

2 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

Hard [censored] /jranger

You want a game filled with powerleveled and then discarded toons who exist only to farm rare IO's?  This is exactly how you get such a game.

I should state that these IOs are not going to be as powerful as your average IOs would be at higher levels. They're just meant to incentivise you to go through different paths in the game. Not to mention, by level locked I mean a particular IO enhancement would only drop as a level 15 IO or 20 IO, and there'd be no way to get a stronger version of that particular enhancement scaled up to 50. It would be an objectively bad idea to hold onto these IOs forever, but they would provide a nice incentive in the moment for completing content.

[ArchVileTerror]

I think that the levels don't necessarily need to be locked, but if some Sets are unique to specific Events or Task Forces, such as the Set found in the Summer Blockbuster, then that could be a really nifty thing.

 

Like making the Positron Task Forces provide the option for a guaranteed drop of something Positron-related.

[TomatoPhalanges]

13 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

I think that the levels don't necessarily need to be locked, but if some Sets are unique to specific Events or Task Forces, such as the Set found in the Summer Blockbuster, then that could be a really nifty thing.

 

Like making the Positron Task Forces provide the option for a guaranteed drop of something Positron-related.

The main reason I'd level-lock would be to avoid giving the sets TOO much value and leading to people to just run repeat content rather than go seek out other new things slightly more appropriate to their level.

 

Edit: The Positron suggestion is exactly the sort of thing I'm referring to, though! Except, say, its just an individual IO, and there's a Synapse IO, and so on, and they're all part of a full set...

Edited April 6, 2020 by TomatoPhalanges

[ArchVileTerror]

AHHH!  That's interesting.  So . . . it's all one Universal Damage Set, but each piece of the Set is from content at a different level range?

[Doc_Scorpion]

26 minutes ago, TomatoPhalanges said:

It would be an objectively bad idea to hold onto these IOs forever, but they would provide a nice incentive in the moment for completing content.

As a level 15 or 20 IO, they're less powerful than an SO...  and you'll need two of them to get even the first tier set bonus...  Honestly, not that much of an incentive unless they provide a particularly attractive set bonus to offset the low value of the individual IO.  And that's a problem.  You're shooting for a band so impossibly narrow it's practically non-existent - attractive enough to carrot-and-stick people into doing the content, but not attractive enough for the farmers and powergamers to come sniffing about.

[TomatoPhalanges]

5 minutes ago, ArchVileTerror said:

AHHH!  That's interesting.  So . . . it's all one Universal Damage Set, but each piece of the Set is from content at a different level range?

Exactly! Encourages you to seek out completing the set as you progress through the levels, and see a variety of content.

 

The same way of working is what I'm suggesting with the mission arc IO rewards, though perhaps in smaller sets (maybe 3 or 4)

[TomatoPhalanges]

5 minutes ago, Doc_Scorpion said:

As a level 15 or 20 IO, they're less powerful than an SO...  and you'll need two of them to get even the first tier set bonus...  Honestly, not that much of an incentive unless they provide a particularly attractive set bonus to offset the low value of the individual IO.  And that's a problem.  You're shooting for a band so impossibly narrow it's practically non-existent - attractive enough to carrot-and-stick people into doing the content, but not attractive enough for the farmers and powergamers to come sniffing about.

If an IO is only able to have one of it slotted, and it's locked to being available at one level of power, what would prompt people to farm it? Unless you're suggesting trading of them, which I would probably make impossible anyway as it defeats the entire purpose.

 

As for the level concern, I think to some (myself included) the value of an IO at that level is more in the fact it doesn't need replacing quickly, rather than the power of it. Adding into the mixture the concept of finding other pieces of the set at higher levels through other mission arcs, scaled to being, say, 30 or 35 or whatever level range is appropriate for the mission, and I feel you have an incentive that is gentle enough to not force anyone's hand into un-fun ways of play, but strong enough to give some excitement to the 'gearing' process of City of Heroes as you level.

Edited April 6, 2020 by TomatoPhalanges
typo + level concerns

[ArchVileTerror]

If the first IO in this Set were a Proc, that could be a pretty strong incentive for low levels, actually.

Could also make two Sets:  One themed for Blueside, and the other themed for Redside.

Granted, Praetorians have a harder slog than either Heroes or Villains, so a yellowside version would be handy too . . . 

 

Starting to sound like a bit of work.  Perhaps if you did some number crunching for the Devs, Tomato?  They tend to respond better to suggestions when there are hard numbers for them to examine.

[TomatoPhalanges]

Just now, ArchVileTerror said:

If the first IO in this Set were a Proc, that could be a pretty strong incentive for low levels, actually.

Could also make two Sets:  One themed for Blueside, and the other themed for Redside.

Granted, Praetorians have a harder slog than either Heroes or Villains, so a yellowside version would be handy too . . . 

 

Starting to sound like a bit of work.  Perhaps if you did some number crunching for the Devs, Tomato?  They tend to respond better to suggestions when there are hard numbers for them to examine.

I think that having the set mirrored in the blueside, redside and goldside would be a good way of managing the amount of work it'd take. You're right though, I should definitely try doing some number crunching. I was hoping the discussion here will lead to some sort of concrete thing to put forward to the devs, and the proc idea is a good start to that, so thanks!

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

I think the idea while rough has potential. Perhaps acting as an extended tutorial about IOs and set bonuses.

 

For example step one, these new IO sets would act as attuned IOs, but also have their max potential capped in the same way as any other IO set that only goes up to a certain level.

 

Say Posi part 2( dont think part 1 really warrants a special reward frankly, too easy to solo on a fresh stalker) It would contain a set with each part rewarded at the end of each mish in the TF. Their power potential would be capped at lvl 20, but could contain useful procs, kind of acting as a replacement for the P2W vet enhancements that obsolete around that level.

 

Each of the TF commander TFs could have a set like this( or in the case of the long mish chained ones like citadel and synapse several sets, to make leveling up less of a hassle especially for those not really familiar with IO crafting, as getting these set recipes would help encourage people to learn the system.

 

While they would cap at low enough levels to make upgrading to real IO sets well worth it, they would also be just good enough to be better then a common SO build, and make running the TFs just a bit more appealing to tempt those that just PLV via AE and radio mishes to consider actually leveling through the varied content. As they wouldnt end up with a naked toon needed funding from a farm alt.

 

So each TF , with the longer ones giving several sets, would naturally progress and prepare the rising hero with thematic if limited unique IO sets that would be %wise capped at the various levels, so only ones from Numina might end up being decent enough to be kept in a lvl 50 build.

 

I feel this would help reduce the SO only types in a natural gradual way, helping close the gap with we who have no issue investing in top tier IO builds. It would also help reduce stress on the AH sold sets, making the attuned ones abit less sought after while leveling, as these theoretical new training IO sets  would act as a viable alternative while leveling. As well as making the long often avoided TFs like synapse logically much more rewarding then the short speed tfs.

[ArchVileTerror]

Ah, but putting a reward in each Positron 1 AND Positron 2 means that players almost immediately get to see the effects of having two pieces of a Set!

 

What we'd need to do is add a Redside two-piece Strike Force to give parity, though.  That's not a small undertaking . . . but frankly, it's one that needs to happen anyway, as far as I'm concerned.

(Money where mouth:  I'm willing to attempt writing one of those, if anyone cares.)

[AerialAssault]

I really like this idea, particularly for Task Forces and Strike Forces, and could also be a test bed for interesting IO procs.

 

Extending it to story arcs I feel would be a natural progression.

 

I'll give this a +1.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

After some more pondering Ill try to lay out a rough draft of how Id approach this idea.

 

Positron part one would reward a 10 charged use of the portable crafting table.

Positron part 2 would have a 5 part set, capped at lvl 20 in enhancement %s. Each part would be awarded in recipe form after each part of the tf was completed, and would only require inf and upon completion of the TF would have a help pop up telling players to use the portable workbench to craft the set parts.

 

Id call this set something like Positrons Assistance. It would be a universal DMG set, and like any set be a mixture of aspects being enhanced, and rather then a proc, upon having all the set would grant a temp power called the same name as the set. This theoretical temp power would be a mixture of Enervating Field and Choking Cloud from Radiation emission and would be on the power tray only as long as the full set was slotted. This being based on Positrons power sets, and meant to be just that assistance from positron. Or alternatively could be a summon of Positron as an EB, that would have a 24 hour cooldown, allowing him to come to aid 1 time a day. This could then be used for each other set from the primary TFs, allowing players to have a way to call upon the help of the named heroes now and then while leveling after having helped them in turn.

 

This is still just a rough idea but I think would do what the OPs own idea was meant to do, but I think do so in a very thematic and compelling manner that would temp many to perhaps keep these sets on an alt exemp friendly build even after capping, and even be popular for RPers who just like the idea of having the classic sig heroes show up as friends during RP.

 

 

[Greycat]

Skimming, you're sort f describing the IOs from the P2W vendor, but able to make a set from them (potentially,) only able to get pieces from (for instance) each "surviving 8" TF until you get them all... I'll re-read after having eaten and gotten out of workbrain.

[TomatoPhalanges]

I think the first step would be an IO set (or sets) from those 'surviving 8' TFs, and I really like BB's explanation of one implimentation, but I'm more excited about the idea of IOs as rewards for story arcs as well, and promoting players to seek out a variety of contacts that give higher-quality mission arcs (say, for example, the ones with EBs or AVs at the ends of them could be the ones designated as having IOs attached as rewards)

 

That said, on a starting level, designing IO sets for each of the TF commander TFs or an IO set that spreads across the whole bunch would be an excellent starting point. As was mentioned, it'd provide additional short and long-term motivation and reward for grinding out those longer TFs like Citadel, and sometimes rewards are enough to make something just a little more fun (tho I think its fair to say that those particular TFs may be in need of some slight reworking anyway).

 

I think the 2-set starting with the two parts of Posi is a fun little coincidence that works remarkably well for both tutorial and breadcrumb purposes. It teaches players how useful sets can be, and encourages players to not only finish the Posi TFs but also seek out the rest of the set as they continue onwards. Plus, that's a fun little spike of power (that took a little effort to get, too, unlike DFB buffs) to get fairly suddenly at such a low level, and one that'll smooth out fairly nicely as the player levels up.

 

Loving the conversation, guys!! Glad to see a few people enjoying the concept and running with it. Giving out better rewards for higher-effort activities in the levelling process is definitely fun to theorize and suggest over.