Batman's rep in his world

[DoctorDitko]

Do you think the average person is aware that Batman doesn't have super-powers?

How about the average villain?

It just seems to me with his theater and fearsome rep, and the number of really powerful people on his earth, it doesn't seem like folks would assume he's just a man in a costume.

Opinions?

[Six-Six]

I don't think so.

You have to take into consideration that we are viewing his world as third person omnipotent. so we know and see things that most characters don't.

In Justice League War animated film, Hal Jordan thought that The Batman was a myth. Then he found out he WAS just a guy in a costume. And that's a Green Lantern.

In another old comic book (Legends of the Dark Knight #74: Engines), there was a part where the writer did not use the third person omnipotent POV. Instead he recounted what an average bystander saw which went something like...

(and don't quote me on this)

He (bats) appeared out of thin air -- bats lands on the hood of the car as it passed the shadow of a building/bridge... so one panel he wasn't there, the next he was.
and sparks flew out of his hands -- panel shows bats throwing caltrops in front of a car to slash the tires, as the caltrops reflect the headlights.

 

Edited April 30, 2020 by Six Six

[DoctorDitko]

Makes sense.

 

I remember that bit from JLA:WAR and the "New 52." (About the only thing I liked about the New 52.)

 

I'd think that most folks would think he was a vampire. He avoids daylight, appears and vanishes mysteriously, is very strong at (at least sometimes) seems to shrug off bullets.

My favorite DCAU quote about him is from World's Finest (aka The Batman-Superman Movie):

 

          Luthor: What makes you think you can kill Superman when you can't even handle a mere mortal in a Halloween costume?

          Joker: There's nothing MERE about that mortal!

 

Of course Luthor can be expected to know more than your average Joe.

[Techwright]

On 4/29/2020 at 9:33 PM, Six Six said:

In Justice League War animated film, Hal Jordan thought that The Batman was a myth. Then he found out he WAS just a guy in a costume. And that's a Green Lantern.
 

^^^This.

 

And it's really hard to pin down, as you have to ask yourself, "which Batman?" for that matter, "which average person", and "which earth?"   The character has been rebooted and retold so many times, and in radically different ways that it would be hard to come up with one standard as to how Gothamites react.  And DC has had multiple universes, just to add to the confusion.

 

If that weren't enough, Batman has at times actually gotten hold of superpowers (lantern rings for one) or swapped with a superpowered person (Superman in the Batman costume) which can only mess with the minds of those who thought they had him figured out.

 

The Batman I first watched as a kid, Adam West, the "Bright Knight", was very obvious to all that he was a natural/technical fighter.  (Don't knock him, he's all we had for 2 decades.)  Likewise, I think it pretty obvious that Val Kilmer's and George Clooney's Batmen were also probably readily known as natural/technical.  

Michael Keaton's interpretation as well as that of Christian Bale, both start with a deliberate misdirection towards the supernatural. So yes, Gotham thought those version were superpowered.  Over time, Gotham begins to realize the Bale Batman is not superpowered, and of course many of his enemies already figured it out.

Kevin Conroy's Batman has had several iterations, but going on the one that started it all, "Batman: The Animated Series", I'd say there may have been a few that wondered at his abilities, though his enemies clearly understood what his limits were.

[Haijinx]

On 4/29/2020 at 7:45 PM, DoctorDitko said:

Do you think the average person is aware that Batman doesn't have super-powers?

How about the average villain?

It just seems to me with his theater and fearsome rep, and the number of really powerful people on his earth, it doesn't seem like folks would assume he's just a man in a costume.

Opinions?

DC is a bit weird like this.  

 

Gotham related stories generally do not involve super-powers at all.   

 

They really are a link back to things like the Shadow, Green Hornet the old Batman and so on.  

 

Its only when Batman's world meshes with the larger DC world do super-powers matter as much.   Or if writers bring them into Gotham.  When brought into Gotham the power level tends to be much closer to street level than powers in other DC story areas.  

 

When Justice League stuff butts in it always seems clutsy to me.  

 

 

[Techwright]

On 5/20/2020 at 5:57 PM, Haijinx said:

DC is a bit weird like this.  

 

Gotham related stories generally do not involve super-powers at all.   

 

They really are a link back to things like the Shadow, Green Hornet the old Batman and so on.  

 

 

 

 

Mostly I agree on this.  Bats has probably got more non-powered villains than the average superhero.  That said, he does have a fair amount of superpowered villains, it's just that very few are genetically  or magically superpowered.    The most obvious exceptions have to be Man-Bat and Clayface.  The subtle one would be Poison Ivy, whose kiss can transmit poisons.  Not extremely useful in combat, hence the "subtle".    Solomon Grundy is also truly superpowered, massively so, but there you get into the "DC World" bit you mentioned, as Grundy kind of floats between comics.   Then you have the technical superpowered types:  Mr. Freeze, Mad Hatter, and Firefly.  I could probably think of a few others, given time.

[Haijinx]

34 minutes ago, Techwright said:

Mostly I agree on this.  Bats has probably got more non-powered villains than the average superhero.  That said, he does have a fair amount of superpowered villains, it's just that very few are genetically  or magically superpowered.    The most obvious exceptions have to be Man-Bat and Clayface.  The subtle one would be Poison Ivy, whose kiss can transmit poisons.  Not extremely useful in combat, hence the "subtle".    Solomon Grundy is also truly superpowered, massively so, but there you get into the "DC World" bit you mentioned, as Grundy kind of floats between comics.   Then you have the technical superpowered types:  Mr. Freeze, Mad Hatter, and Firefly.  I could probably think of a few others, given time.

Also the Gotham characters with powers tend to be on the low end of the scale. 

 

At least when they are first introduced in Gotham.  Power creep comes in when they hit other titles.   

 

Killer Croc comes to mind.  Bane.  Etc.  

 

Or they may have powers but use them less in Gotham.  Black Canary almost never uses her cry in Birds of Prey.