Monos King & Galaxy Brain: Ninjas

[Monos King]

Ninjas

 

For the full details of the Monos-Brain Overhaul, please view the link below:

Monos King & Galaxy Brains Mastermind Changes

 

Oh boy. Who doesn't want to live out the shinobi story, that feudal fairy tale that has bridged boundaries in entertainment world wide. Ninjas are a great, and iconic concept. It's a shame they're awful.  The changes proposed in this thread will address function and thematic improvement through:

 

1. Improving their defense (Elusivity, Defense Resistance, etc)
2. Slightly enhancing their resistance (Lethal/Smash)
3. Remodeling MM Personal attacks (Bow, Shuriken, Daggers)

 

General Ninja Changes

Smoke Flash

| Now adds TAoE +5% Def (All). | 12s Duration | Same original Crit Stats | Stackable | 5% Elusiveness to S/L in PvP

 

Ninjas durability must have been lost in translation. Their minor defenses can keep them alive at lower levels, but smack any of them in front of a wave of 5 +1s and they'll get shredded so swiftly you'll see them served with takoyaki. Compared to their fellow defense inherents, ninjas fall...very short. 

 Base Values

Defenses	Genin	Jounin	Jounin (Hidden)	Jounin (Unhidden)	Oni	Wolf	Lions	Dire wolf	Lion's Roar	Fortify Pack
Smash	0	0	0		0				+12% (All)	Up to +15% (All)
Lethal	0	0	0		0
Cold	0	0	0		0
Fire	0	0	0		0
Toxic	0	0	0		0
Negative	0	0	0		0
Cold	0	0	0		0
Psionic	0	0	0		0
Melee	6	13.89	18.89	16.14	6	11.12	12.40	12.45
Ranged	6	13.89	18.89	16.14	6	11.12	12.40	12.45
AoE	6	13	18	16.14	6	11.12	12.40	12.45

 

 

Resistance	Genin	Jounin	Jounin (Hidden)	Jounin (Unhidden)	Oni	Wolves	Lions	Dire Wolf	Dire Wolf (Will of the Wild)
Smash	0	0	0		26.14	18.53	29.76	29.88	67.23
Lethal	0	0	0		26.14	18.53	29.76	29.88	67.23
Cold	0	0	0		0	18.53	29.76	29.88	67.23
Fire	0	0	0		52.29				37.35
Toxic	0	0	0		0
Negative	0	0	0		0
Cold	0	0	0		0
Psionic	0	0	0		0				00000000 00

 

 

The only Ninja that actually contends to the wolves is the Jounin, who uses a (currently unenhanceable) Stealth move to balance the scales. Beasts, on the other hand, posses enhanceable all henchmen defense buffs which immediately puts them above every ninja, inherent damage resistance, AND fortify pack to further demonstrate the vast gap; Fortify offering 15% base with max Pack Mentality Stacks and being a power that is nearly never used due to its trade-offs. This is not to even mention Thugs and Robots, which both also possess superior raw defense and higher resistance. 

The inclusion of a minor but stackable buff for ninjas will be the first of many additions to not only make ninjas actually compare to sets that aren't even defense focuses, but more importantly just allow them to not be utterly defenseless against stronger enemies. The existing crit/placate durations, as well as endurance cost would remain unchanged. The benefits of this power would now fully warrant the expense.

 

Ninja Personal Attack Updates

Ninjas personal attacks are relatively weak, this is true, but they also don't grasp the essence of being a ninja too much either. These changes seek to improve function as well as feel.

 

Snap Shot: Unchanged

 

Adition 1: Aimed Shot -> Heavy Shuriken | Uses Shuriken Model from Martial Assault: Explosive Shuriken

Base Damage: 38.12 Level 50

-5% Def

25.00% chance for 1.33 magnitude knock on target

Endurance: 10

Range 70.00 ft

Recharge 7.5s

Activation Time: 1.87s

Often advocated for within the community, giving the Ninja Master some shurikens seems appropriate. The new power would offer some secondary effects to be in line with other sets, and in exchange be much slower in recharge and range than the original, somewhat boring bow attack.

 

Addition 2: Fistful of Arrows -> Storm of Daggers | Uses Martial Assault: Shurikens animation and Envenomed Daggers Model | -5% damage 10s | 50% chance for -50% regeneration 15s

Base Damage: 50

Endurance: 14 (with suggested cuts to endurance) 16.90

Range 60 ft

Recharge 14s

Activation time 1.87s

A final attack to complete the skillset of a weapons master, this move would unleash a wave of laced kunai to weak enemies in an arc. I would imagine it operating like Crack Whip, or like Vorpal Judgement (no target needed). 

 

Genin

Inherent Resistance:

6 Positional Def -> 10 Positional Def | 10 S/L/Ranged Elusivity (PvP)

0 Res -> 10 Lethal Resistance | 5 Smashing Resistance

30% Defense Debuff Resistance

Available from Default Equipment

This will be the theme for most of the resistance changes. Ninjas aren't going to actually reach the defense of Beast, Thugs, or Robots, not with their buffs, but they do deserve to gain a degree of self-sustain. So that they don't get whipped. Granting the Genin defense res helps to differentiate Ninjas from the others, and will prevent them from being utterly slain by those with -def due to their own poor resistance. 

 

Jounin

Inherent Resistance:

13.89 Positional Def -> 13.89 Elusivity (PvP)

0 Res > 24% Lethal Resistance | 6 Smashing Resistance

35% Defense Debuff Resistance

Available from Default Equipment

Jounin is already in a great position, and just needs some small additions to not die. It's damage and debuffs are S-Class, so the minor resistance changes are really all it needs.

Jounin Mod 1: Hide accepts defense sets

Pretty simple, lets you enhance the Defense value of the Jounins Hide ability to allow greater defense.

 

Oni

Oni Mod 1: Inherent Resistance

12.5 Positional Def -> 12.5 Elusivity (PvP)

0 Res >30% Lethal Resistance | 30% Smashing Resistance

40% Defense Debuff Resistance

Available from Default Equipment

 

Oni Mod 2: 

Fire Sword Slash | Fire Sword Hack

Now deal -2% Defense 

Now use appropriate respective animations from Broadsword.

Available from Default Equipment | Train Ninjas

 

The demonic swordsman is in perfect condition, lacking only small qualities that emphasize its expertise. And of course, to not be as weak as paper.

 

Ninja's are an extremely fun set, and are actually very good at what they are supposed to be good at -- stealth, damage, and speed. The only thing they have been lacking is their supposed protective specialty; defense. The changes to ninja proposed here will not only cover that, but aso enhance the immersive experience of being an elite ninja master by providing a larger arsenal of weapons for the user to deploy.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Monos King

[Emperor Cole]

I like the idea that Ninja MM users would become weapon masters, as opposed to just using bow. The addition to ninjas in order to actually throw shurikens is a very need change. Seriously, how can you be a ninja and not be able to throw shurikens.

[Redlynne]

Counter-proposal.

 

The most glaringly obvious failure on the part of Cryptic and then later Paragon Studios with respect to Ninja Masterminds is that the Ninjas do not observe the Conservation of Ninjitsu.

Quote

In any martial arts fight, there is only a finite amount of ninjutsu available to each side in a given encounter.

As a result, one Ninja is a deadly threat, but an army of them are cannon fodder.

 

Game mechanically speaking, the simplest and the best way of producing this effect is ... wait for it ... Nemesis Vengeance (repurposed to only affect surviving Ninja Henchmen when any Ninja Henchmen gets defeated).  Except in this case, you'd code it as a power granted by upgrade to your Ninjas such that when they are defeated (zero HP) they will cast a "Vengeance Lite" effect that buffs any surviving (1+ HP) Ninjas within a 100ft radius of where the Ninja was defeated.  This then, game mechanically, introduces the idea that Ninjas become "stronger" when their fellow Ninjas "die" ... thereby succeeding at implementing the Conservation of Ninjitsu in a way consistent with computer game mechanics that can "make sense" to both the computer and to the Player.

 

It also means that depending on how you want to play, there could potentially be a strategy behind a "crunch all you want, I'll just summon more Ninjas" style of play that could appeal to some Players.

1 hour ago, Monos King said:

Smoke Flash

The biggest problem with Smoke Flash is that it is single target.

If Smoke Flash were a Target AoE ... with, say, a 15ft radius ... it would be fantastic.

If it was a Target AoE that affected up to 10 Ninja Henchmen AND THE MASTERMIND when cast (regardless of how far away the Target AoE is from the caster) ... you'd have a winner.

1 hour ago, Monos King said:

Ninja Personal Attack Updates

I'm actually quite happy with the game mechanics for the personal attacks for Ninja Masterminds.  Snap Shot, Aimed Shot, Fistful of Arrows FEEL right in terms of tempo when used.  So I wouldn't want to see their power parameters in the database changed.  I would however welcome a cosmetic costume editor option of replacing the bow with simply throwing Shurikens instead of using a Bow and Arrows.  So I would welcome a cosmetic alternative to using the Bow, but would not welcome a change of the underlying game mechanics.

[Monos King]

56 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

I'm actually quite happy with the game mechanics for the personal attacks for Ninja Masterminds.

I'm really surprised to hear that. Almost every time ninja personals come up all I see are complaints about them; lack of effects, lack of damage, etc. That's pretty cool to see.

56 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

Nemesis Vengeance (repurposed to only affect surviving Ninja Henchmen

I think the conservation idea is quite interesting. We had a similar idea for mercenary medics. Considering that rule, making ninjas a mastermind set in itself was probably a thematic blow; I guess they had a dojo or something of the sort in mind. 

 

On another note, what gets in the way of making smokebomb a TAoE, is ninjas insane damage. That would probably only be possible if we were to see smokebombs recharge time go way down.

Edited May 8, 2020 by Monos King

[Redlynne]

9 hours ago, Monos King said:

10 hours ago, Redlynne said:

I'm actually quite happy with the game mechanics for the personal attacks for Ninja Masterminds.

I'm really surprised to hear that. Almost every time ninja personals come up all I see are complaints about them; lack of effects, lack of damage, etc. That's pretty cool to see.

I have my reasons.

That said, I would appreciate having a little bit ... more ... available to the personal attacks on the Ninja primary, since they ARE quite limited in terms of effects and slotting options, but I've figured out how to make them work (for me).  The irony is that while the attacks look weak I have found that they actually aren't weak when used *skillfully* in concert with Ninja Henchmen attacks.  I really wish it were possible to post gameplay videos to demonstrate what I'm talking about with this because of how I've been blending everything together while soloing through Praetoria (dealing with Imperial City right now, level locked to 15 until moving on to Neutropolis after clearing all story arcs).

 

I've even developed tactics using Defensive/Stay with the Ninjas (so as to keep them from running off) and using them as ranged attackers while I use my Bow personal attacks and basically "gun down" incoming Minions before they even reach me/us.  Likewise, parking the Ninjas off to the side and standing far enough away so they don't get caught in the "blast radius" of Blast Master Destroyer attacks and then being able to pull in and bow/shurken "gun down" the Minion(s) in comparative safety.  A lot of the time, the incoming Minion won't even reach me before they faceplant, which is astonishing compared to the alternative of making the Ninjas chew them up in melee (and take damage themselves as a result).

9 hours ago, Monos King said:

I think the conservation idea is quite interesting.

The Conservation of Ninjitsu is one of those things that works great in narrative, but is very difficult to implement correctly in game mechanics.  Done wrong you wind up with a situation where they start strong and end weak, which is the way giving them Leadership "toggle" powers would wind up working ... because they're at full strength with all of them but as they fall they start to crumble because the buffs get smaller and weaker as the Ninjas get defeated.  What you want is the reverse behavior where as they drop the survivors get "stronger" relative to before the loss ... and the only way to do that is to cast an effect upon defeat.

9 hours ago, Monos King said:

On another note, what gets in the way of making smokebomb a TAoE, is ninjas insane damage. That would probably only be possible if we were to see smokebombs recharge time go way down.

I would consider being able to Smoke Flash the "Ninja Team" (including the Mastermind) something that would compensate for the AoE vs Single Target by an increase in the recharge time.

 

Using the PPM formula for Area Factor, a 15ft radius would compute like so:

(0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 15 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000)) = 2.6875

 

Smoke Flash has a 20s recharge as a single target.

Multiply that by 2.6875 and you get 53.75s.

 

If you want to make it a nice round 60s recharge you'd want an 18ft radius:

(0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 18 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000)) = 3.025

20 * 3.025 = 60.5s

 

Push it out to a 20ft radius and you'd be looking at a 65s recharge:

(0.25 + 0.75 * (1 + 20 * (11 * 360 + 540) / 30,000)) = 3.25

20 * 3.25 = 65s

 

And I would be perfectly fine with that, since among other things it would give a reason to slot Recharge into Smoke Flash.  At the very least, it gives you a "sense" for how much of a gearing ratio ought to be involved for different radii of Target AoE Smoke Flash performance.

[Twintania]

In terms of NIN personal attacks, I've been thinking of a (Probably impossible) idea of having the MM personal attacks put a Mark of sorts on a target, where for a certain small duration all your Ninja have a chance to Crit on that target. I don't think there is anything in-game that supports this, but it's a fun idea anyways.

[Redlynne]

To be honest, if a secondary effect were going to be added to the Ninja primary personal attack powers (Snap Shot, Aimed Shot and Fistful of Arrows) I would settle for a "poisoned weapons" kind of thing where the attacks add an enhanceable Slow (-Movement and -Recharge) as a way to make $Targets more vulnerable to being chewed up by Ninjas.  The important thing though is that such a ... broadening ... would enable the personal attacks to slot Slow sets in addition to Ranged Damage sets, so as to enable a little bit of variety in options.  Wouldn't upset the game balance but would help with the thematics of the powerset.  Essentially a "tweak" rather than an overhaul.