Defender grouping questions

[Osprey39]

I am relatively new to this game.  I played a bit back in live but not a great deal.  I don't even think I got to level 20.  I enjoyed the game back then but I couldn't convince any of my normal crew to take it up with me so I stopped playing.  When I heard about Homecoming, I decided I wanted to try it again so here I am.  I have tried out brute, corrupter, MM and stalker but I wanted to try a more support oriented character so I made a defender. 

 

I went with trick arrow/archery for flavor's sake and I have noticed since I hit about level 7 that my time to kill on a single mob has gotten really long.  While I can solo most stuff safely, it's very slow because I kill so slowly.  No problem thought I, I'm a support class so I will just start looking to join groups.  Well, the night before last I grouped up for the first time with my defender and I was pretty disappointed with the experience.  There was one other defender in the group but that wasn't a problem, we weren't stepping on each other's toes or anything.  It just seemed that with a full group, the content became laughably easy.  I felt like I was contributing little to nothing to the team because my debuffs weren't necessary for 8 people to kill orange/red cons.  

 

There's my back story, and here are my questions: 

 

Is running missions in a full group always that easy?  (because honestly, even if I were one of the DPS classes, I would have found that boring)

 

Are debuffers ever 'needed' to do group content?  (I don't want to invest a bunch of time leveling a character that can't solo and isn't wanted in groups)

 

Thanks in advance for taking time to answer.

[Psyonico]

Is running missions in a full group always that easy?  (because honestly, even if I were one of the DPS classes, I would have found that boring)

 

No, it's not always that easy.  What level was the rest of your team? Were they IO'd out? What was the other Defender?  these (and other things) can all impact how easy a team moves.

 

Are debuffers ever 'needed' to do group content?  (I don't want to invest a bunch of time leveling a character that can't solo and isn't wanted in groups)

Debuffers are technically not needed in any content, as long as the team comp is right.  That being said, they do make all content easier for a team.

 

TA/A is a fun combination, but it really doesn't shine until you get Oil Slick Arrow (26) and EMP Arrow (32) slotted up.  Even then, it will never be a solo beast unless you specifically build for it with IOs.

 

[Osprey39]

10 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

 

 

 

No, it's not always that easy.  What level was the rest of your team? Were they IO'd out? What was the other Defender?  these (and other things) can all impact how easy a team moves.

 

 

 

Debuffers are technically not needed in any content, as long as the team comp is right.  That being said, they do make all content easier for a team.

 

TA/A is a fun combination, but it really doesn't shine until you get Oil Slick Arrow (26) and EMP Arrow (32) slotted up.  Even then, it will never be a solo beast unless you specifically build for it with IOs.

 

Thanks for the reply.  I'm not really sure what the rest of the team had slotted.  I'm new enough that I don't really even know how to see that.  I think I was level 9 at the time and the group was exemplared to 16/17.  I'm sure that had some bearing on why I felt like I wasn't contributing much.

 

I'm not looking to solo with this guy, I made him to be support.  I just felt pretty useless in that team.    I'll keep plugging away as long as there is a niche for this combo later on.  That's my main concern.  I don't want to be dead weight and only get invited to teams out of pity 😛

[War_L0ck]

3 hours ago, Osprey39 said:

IIs running missions in a full group always that easy?  (because honestly, even if I were one of the DPS classes, I would have found that boring)

I have seen a lot of this, too, and I don't care for it. I don't like soloing, and 8 person groups steamrolling content isn't fun at all. I enjoy small groups of 2-4 (where your participation feels consequential), but you rarely find groups of that size (at least that's my experience). There is an event called the Summer Blockbuster that uses a group size of 4. I wonder if there is more content like that.

[Psyonico]

16 minutes ago, War_L0ck said:

I have seen a lot of this, too, and I don't care for it. I don't like soloing, and 8 person groups steamrolling content isn't fun at all. I enjoy small groups of 2-4 (where your participation feels consequential), but you rarely find groups of that size (at least that's my experience). There is an event called the Summer Blockbuster that uses a group size of 4. I wonder if there is more content like that.

You can always start your own small team group and advertise it as such.  I've done that a handful of times.

[War_L0ck]

2 minutes ago, Psyonico said:

You can always start your own small team group and advertise it as such.  I've done that a handful of times.

Good idea. Also playing villain (or joining villain groups as rogue/vigilante) is probably a decent option, too. You can find full groups on red, but often mission groups seem smaller (in my limited experience).

[Primantis]

10 hours ago, Osprey39 said:

There was one other defender in the group but that wasn't a problem, we weren't stepping on each other's toes or anything.

 

Defender's (And Corruptors) seldom step on each other's toes. So long as you both are team players.

 

They compliment one another and act as a huge multiplying factor! Thus leading to some fun shenanigans.

Are you a Kin who loves playing life risky and lives in melee? Sweet, an Emp just joined! Now they can give you CM and possibly Fort, so you can push yourself harder!

 

Two Darkies? Well, the mobs won't hitting anyone anymore, and stacked Tar Patches are brutal indeed! 

 

As a constant Defender player myself, I usually love when another Defender joins up. Even if we have the same exact power sets. Multiple Kinetics can get a bit redundant, but not enough to worry about.

 

[Clave Dark 5]

13 hours ago, Osprey39 said:

Are debuffers ever 'needed' to do group content?  (I don't want to invest a bunch of time leveling a character that can't solo and isn't wanted in groups)

They are if they're what you want to play.  :) 

 

The game's very elastic and if you should run across someone who tries to dictate what you play, steer a wide berth around that goofball.  You can play what you want to play and most people won't care (and if they do they're goofballs).  The "experts" here might tell you to never take this or that set and so on, but most players are not forum "experts."

 

That said, defenders are slow going at lower levels if you're soloing as I understand it (I always team, so I wouldn't know for sure).  That "I don't really need to be here" effect is true, often, for any member of a team; yes, they could roll along without you.  That's OK, that's how the game usually plays - as I said, it's elastic.  Roles aren't so rigidly set.

[Zanthyna]

Teams are as diverse as costumes--you will run across all kinds so don't let any one bad experience make you think they will all be like that.  If you're on a team and you aren't enjoying yourself, then leave and go find a better one.  Over time, you will get better at figuring out which teams are most likely a good match for how you like to play.  

 

I generally avoid farming teams, PL teams, and speed runs because I'm not interested in steamrolling content. 

[Without_Pause]

It is also really difficult to read much of anything in a build at level 9. Hitting level 22 and slotting level 25 common IOs is where I do my initial look into a build and wait until 35+ before I decide it is worth it. Debuffs sets are useful all the way through. Steamrolling teams happen. More so in end game content with teams using builds with IO sets and Incarnate powers against non-Incarnate content. There's honestly teams which would steamroll said content with all of 4-6 players doing +4/x8 diff setting. There's also a lot less annoying mobs in the early game. There are certain mobs in the 40-50 range which will make a lot of teams slow down.

[Parabola]

On 5/21/2020 at 8:02 PM, Osprey39 said:

I am relatively new to this game.  I played a bit back in live but not a great deal.  I don't even think I got to level 20.  I enjoyed the game back then but I couldn't convince any of my normal crew to take it up with me so I stopped playing.  When I heard about Homecoming, I decided I wanted to try it again so here I am.  I have tried out brute, corrupter, MM and stalker but I wanted to try a more support oriented character so I made a defender. 

 

I went with trick arrow/archery for flavor's sake and I have noticed since I hit about level 7 that my time to kill on a single mob has gotten really long.  While I can solo most stuff safely, it's very slow because I kill so slowly.  No problem thought I, I'm a support class so I will just start looking to join groups.  Well, the night before last I grouped up for the first time with my defender and I was pretty disappointed with the experience.  There was one other defender in the group but that wasn't a problem, we weren't stepping on each other's toes or anything.  It just seemed that with a full group, the content became laughably easy.  I felt like I was contributing little to nothing to the team because my debuffs weren't necessary for 8 people to kill orange/red cons.  

 

There's my back story, and here are my questions: 

 

Is running missions in a full group always that easy?  (because honestly, even if I were one of the DPS classes, I would have found that boring)

 

Are debuffers ever 'needed' to do group content?  (I don't want to invest a bunch of time leveling a character that can't solo and isn't wanted in groups)

 

Thanks in advance for taking time to answer.

The difficulty of the game in teams, particularly at high levels, is something of a hot button topic around these parts. There has been significant power creep over time and this always was designed as an mmo that could be solo'd. We now have the situation where people are teaming on characters that are perfectly capable of handling the same content at maximum settings solo and this of course has an impact on the experience of their teammates.

 

At lower levels where characters are less developed this is less of a problem but there the tendancy is for content to be run at easy settings for maximum kill speed. This has the same effect for characters built more with support in mind where they can feel like a fifth wheel. However, when the going gets tough a debuffer (or a good controller) can make all the difference.

 

One answer to all this is to make your own teams and crank the difficulty up until the kill speed drops out of the cakewalk bracket. Also don't be afraid to ask for the difficulty to be raised when on someone else's team. I've had refusals but never seen anyone get upset by this. Another thing to be wary of is joining teams running at a very different level to yourself. The xp is fantastic as a lowbie joining a high level team but you won't feel like you are doing much.

 

Ultimately this game is designed to be very casual friendly and solo friendly. All characters are expected to contribute damage and not all support powers are going to be needed in all situations. If you find yourself in such a team then concentrate on blasting away or leave and do something else if that's not proving to be fun.

Edited May 28, 2020 by parabola