Demons/EA?

[Neiska]

Hi fellow overlords,

 

I have heard ramblings and whispers about the potent combination of Demons/EA, with even claims it's a top teir MM powerset selection. But I have seen very little discussion about it, much less any posted builds. So does anyone have any insight to offer or better yet, builds to post? Have heard rumors of people softcapping demons resistances with /EA, but have yet to see posted builds/numbers on that.

 

My own experience with demons was demons/dark which was good. With EA it was Robots/EA, mostly for theme. It perfermed alright but EA seemed a bit buggy. The heal, absorb, resitance bubble, and damage debuffs were all good though. Would hope things like Amp up actually works on demons. It was largely a waste on Robots.

 

So anyone got info to offer or is it all hearsay?

 

Thanks bunches!

 

 

[Dixa]

until you get an immob power from the patron powers, EA can be frustrating to play with MM's. the energy drain is causing a terror response in mobs and they flee as if they have a rad emission toggle on them. 

 

the demons are so large it is likely impossible to keep them all within the faraday cage due to hit box collision. otherwise - on paper - it's a good pairing especially once you have the absorb.

[Crysis]

Def not my top tier MM.  /EA has a great +RES shield, absorb shield and some +END stuff with -END debuffs.  It's "ok" but nowhere near the powerhouse of a Thugs/Time, Demon/Time, Demon/Cold, Thugs/Storm, Demon/Storm, Bots/Time, Bots/Storm, Bots/Traps, etc etc etc.....

 

It's a very good build, decent middle of the road, and will keep almost any henchmen types healthy.  But it's top tier powers are utterly useless on the MM or the henchmen.  Amp Up is good for a team-mate/duo partner, but does almost nothing for you or your henchmen.  It's a broken version of Power Boost and, as such, you'll get more mileage out of Power Boost.  Defib is...an odd duck really.  It does work, but unless you are solo, you won't get much use out of it.  The Immobilize helps make it more effective.  

 

I literally just slapped this together on the fly.  You could likely do far better with some effort.  But as-is, it's softcapped DEF to S/L, 73% S/L RES and 68% RES to Fire, plus 55% RES to Toxic.  Perhaps use it as a starting point and see where you go?

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Bots EA: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Demon Summoning
Secondary Power Set: zn_Electrical Affinity
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Summon Demonlings -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(3), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg(3), CaltoArm-Dmg/EndRdx(15), CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(33)
Level 1: Shock -- PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(39), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(40), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(40), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(46), PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(50)
Level 2: Rejuvenating Circuit -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(5), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Prv-Heal/Rchg(7), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(7), Prv-Absorb%(37)
Level 4: Discharge -- PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(9), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(9), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(11), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(11), PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(40)
Level 6: Enchant Demon -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Lash -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(25), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 10: Energizing Circuit -- PreOptmz-Acc/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/End(17), PreOptmz-EndMod/Rech(21), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/End(21), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(37), PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(37)
Level 12: Summon Demons -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(13), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(15), RctArm-ResDam(29), SvrRgh-PetResDam(33)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Faraday Cage -- ImpSki-Status(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(17), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(19), GldArm-End/Res(34), GldArm-ResDam(46)
Level 18: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 20: Empowering Circuit -- RctRtc-Pcptn(A)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def(23), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(25), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46)
Level 24: Hell on Earth -- ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(43), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(43), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), CaltoArm-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(45)
Level 26: Summon Demon Prince -- SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(27), SlbAll-Dmg(27), SlbAll-Build%(29), ImpSwf-Dam%(31), EdcoftheM-PetDef(33)
Level 28: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Super Speed -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 32: Abyssal Empowerment -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Insulating Circuit -- DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(36), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), DctWnd-Heal(36)
Level 38: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(39), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(39)
Level 41: Web Envelope -- GrvAnc-Immob/Rchg(A), GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(42), GrvAnc-Acc/Rchg(42), GrvAnc-Immob/EndRdx(42), GrvAnc-Hold%(43)
Level 44: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(48), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(48), UnbGrd-Max HP%(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(50), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Supremacy 
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 1: Fiery Demonling 
Level 12: Hellfire Gargoyle 
Level 26: Hellfire Demonling 
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 1: Cold Demonling 
Level 26: Demon Prince 
Level 12: Ember Demon 
------------

 

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Edited May 28, 2020 by Crysis

[Neiska]

@Crysis- Hello! 

 

Yes, i am sleeping just fine, but thank you for your conern! 😉

 

And you are right, we did have a chat about /EA in that link you posted. I even read it over before I posted this one, just to make sure I had it right.

The past 2 or 3 days now, folks on my server in the /help channel ingame were saying that (specifically) demons/EA was the new MM hotness, which had me confused, because as you pointed out wonderfully both in my other post and here, its kind of "just okay". It has some neat effects new to MMs, like the absorb, but not all the powers work as advertised, or isnt of great use to the MM themselves, just on teams. Personally it wasnt my bag of tea, because i found it far too clicky, and i tend to disfavor button-spam heavy builds. Had enough of diablo thank you very much!

 

So I was wondering if I missed an update somewhere, or someone figured something out, or something else. Because ya, I don't think /EA is top shelf. Some may like it and that's great! It just lacks.. oomph.

 

As far as why i made another post, well, i am still relativity new to the forums, and some forums I have been on have rules against "necro-ing" (posting/bumping) old threads, plus this was more of a request for verification.

 

I did think that someone in help was just mistaken or giving bad advice, or heck might still be new like I sort of am. Because I had thought we had done a pretty good job at analyzing /EA and it wasn't the new "hawtness" that a few people in /help were making it out to be.

 

But thank you all for the replys! It is appreciated. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't having a blonde moment there.

 

Thanks Bunches

[Crysis]

1 minute ago, Neiska said:

@Crysis- Hello! 

 

Yes, i am sleeping just fine, but thank you for your conern! 😉

 

And you are right, we did have a chat about /EA in that link you posted. I even read it over before I posted this one, just to make sure I had it right.

The past 2 or 3 days now, folks on my server in the /help channel ingame were saying that (specifically) demons/EA was the new MM hotness, which had me confused, because as you pointed out wonderfully both in my other post and here, its kind of "just okay". It has some neat effects new to MMs, like the absorb, but not all the powers work as advertised, or isnt of great use to the MM themselves, just on teams. Personally it wasnt my bag of tea, because i found it far too clicky, and i tend to disfavor button-spam heavy builds. Had enough of diablo thank you very much!

 

So I was wondering if I missed an update somewhere, or someone figured something out, or something else. Because ya, I don't think /EA is top shelf. Some may like it and that's great! It just lacks.. oomph.

 

As far as why i made another post, well, i am still relativity new to the forums, and some forums I have been on have rules against "necro-ing" (posting/bumping) old threads, plus this was more of a request for verification.

 

I did think that someone in help was just mistaken or giving bad advice, or heck might still be new like I sort of am. Because I had thought we had done a pretty good job at analyzing /EA and it wasn't the new "hawtness" that a few people in /help were making it out to be.

 

But thank you all for the replys! It is appreciated. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't having a blonde moment there.

 

Thanks Bunches

I amended my post.  I really was more focused on the disappointment that was Bots/EA.

 

See my amended reply above.  "New" is often considered "hot" simply because it's different.  And /EA is very different....but I think needs to go back to formula for MM's.  It's just not all that impressive in my book.  

Edited May 28, 2020 by Crysis

[Dixa]

as far as I can tell, everyone who has done actual testing with /ea including myself have not been impressed.

 

it works better as a set on defenders. 

[Substaticman]

1 hour ago, Dixa said:

as far as I can tell, everyone who has done actual testing with /ea including myself have not been impressed.

 

it works better as a set on defenders. 

Which set worked better with Demons for all content?  I thought EA's replenishing their Endurance and cage stopping their knockback woulda been nice lol.

 

I guess Cold or Thermal?

[Dixa]

for all content? thermal imo. capped resists for the most part, just enough defense from the pet io's to make a dent and warmth on auto fire makes for unkillable pets. 

 

cold gets wrecked by mobs with high tohit buffs. 

 

the anti knockback from the cage is nice, the absorb is nice and the heal is actually good but that's all the set brings and the cage is TINY and does not follow you. as for cc protection for yourself, you can get that from the p2w vendor now.

[Coyote]

4 hours ago, Dixa said:

as far as I can tell, everyone who has done actual testing with /ea including myself have not been impressed.

 

I think that may be overstating the lack of impression. I personally, and I think many others who commented, found it quite strong defensively, and lacking on the offensive end. Overall balanced, and well suited to supporting high-damage pets. Definitely not a real contender for top builds, but it's a solid set. The overall power level seems fine, basically middle of the pack or slightly above it, which is a good result for keeping sets balanced.

[Dr Causality]

5 hours ago, Dixa said:

for all content? thermal imo. capped resists for the most part, just enough defense from the pet io's to make a dent and warmth on auto fire makes for unkillable pets. 

 

the anti knockback from the cage is nice, the absorb is nice and the heal is actually good but that's all the set brings and the cage is TINY and does not follow you. as for cc protection for yourself, you can get that from the p2w vendor now.

 

Thermal is a more balanced since it has much better offensive power from it's debuffs, so it's probably more effective overall (that said /Thermal's offensive power is unfortunately marred by Melt having such a high 150s base recharge...)       

 

But in terms of just survivability /EA is miles ahead of /Thermal.   

 

With all the pet IO's etc. /EA can cap lots of the Demons Resistance too.  See the pics for stats on the fully built out Demon/EA pets.   

 

/Thermal is surprisingly not clearly better on Resistance or Heals.  And has none of /EA's Mezz Protection or Absorb:

• /Thermal shields are only 3.75% base Resistance stronger than /EA's Faraday Cage.  Fully enhanced that could turn out to be up to 6% more Resistance for /Thermal's pets and teammates, than /EA.
  • BUT /Thermal cannot shield themselves, so fully enhanced the /EA MM will be at something like +19% Res ahead of the /Thermal MM to all types except Toxic
  • AND /Thermal's shields don't buff Psionic, so the /EA's pets and teammates will be 19% Psi Resistance ahead
• Shockingly /EA's aoe chain heal starts out nearly double the base Heal of /Thermal's Warmth with the same 8s base cooldown.  (/Thermal has a single target heal, but /EA can buff their Recharge so their aoe heal will be up more often than warmth on identical recharge builds...)   /EA is probably ahead of Healing.  But it is nice not to have to target Warmth, so /Thermal can be easier to play.
• /EA has always up aoe mezz Protection impacting themselves, /Thermal has none.

/EA is probably ahead on surivability just from those powers compared above.   But the knockout blow is the Insulating Current's Absorb Shield that will have a cooldown of probably around 5s.   It's really hard to describe how much of EHP boost that is.   From what I can tell Res reduces the incoming damage before it's taken from the Absorb pool.   So the high Resistance Demons/EA ends up with makes the small Absorb very impressive.    A 400HP Absorb Shield is huge when the damage taken from it first is reduced by 90%.....

 

/EA is weak offensively, but I don't think any of the other combos can take the beating a Demons/EA MM can.  

 

 

---

For comparison to Thermal here's what /EA Demon's pets Resistance looks like when fully enhanced, with slotted Ember Shield, Faraday Cage, Pet Res IO's and Cardiac boost (which EA will probably want since it boosts both Absorb and Resistance...)

 

As mentioned /Thermal with Cardiac would be a 6% higher, except would be 19.13% lower in Psionic.

 

**Edit**   Also I think /EA builds will need to take Barrier Core, so you'll have at least another 5% Res in addition to what's shown here even at the end of Barrier taking even more of the pets to cap like Demon Prince.

 

T1's

 

 

 

T2's

 

 

 

T3.  

 

 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Dr Causality

[Dixa]

13 hours ago, Dr Causality said:

 

Thermal is a more balanced since it has much better offensive power from it's debuffs, so it's probably more effective overall (that said /Thermal's offensive power is unfortunately marred by Melt having such a high 150s base recharge...)       

 

But in terms of just survivability /EA is miles ahead of /Thermal.   

 

With all the pet IO's etc. /EA can cap lots of the Demons Resistance too.  See the pics for stats on the fully built out Demon/EA pets.   

 

/Thermal is surprisingly not clearly better on Resistance or Heals.  And has none of /EA's Mezz Protection or Absorb:

• /Thermal shields are only 3.75% base Resistance stronger than /EA's Faraday Cage.  Fully enhanced that could turn out to be up to 6% more Resistance for /Thermal's pets and teammates, than /EA.
  • BUT /Thermal cannot shield themselves, so fully enhanced the /EA MM will be at something like +19% Res ahead of the /Thermal MM to all types except Toxic
  • AND /Thermal's shields don't buff Psionic, so the /EA's pets and teammates will be 19% Psi Resistance ahead
• Shockingly /EA's aoe chain heal starts out nearly double the base Heal of /Thermal's Warmth with the same 8s base cooldown.  (/Thermal has a single target heal, but /EA can buff their Recharge so their aoe heal will be up more often than warmth on identical recharge builds...)   /EA is probably ahead of Healing.  But it is nice not to have to target Warmth, so /Thermal can be easier to play.
• /EA has always up aoe mezz Protection impacting themselves, /Thermal has none.

/EA is probably ahead on surivability just from those powers compared above.   But the knockout blow is the Insulating Current's Absorb Shield that will have a cooldown of probably around 5s.   It's really hard to describe how much of EHP boost that is.   From what I can tell Res reduces the incoming damage before it's taken from the Absorb pool.   So the high Resistance Demons/EA ends up with makes the small Absorb very impressive.    A 400HP Absorb Shield is huge when the damage taken from it first is reduced by 90%.....

 

/EA is weak offensively, but I don't think any of the other combos can take the beating a Demons/EA MM can.  

 

 

---

For comparison to Thermal here's what /EA Demon's pets Resistance looks like when fully enhanced, with slotted Ember Shield, Faraday Cage, Pet Res IO's and Cardiac boost (which EA will probably want since it boosts both Absorb and Resistance...)

 

As mentioned /Thermal with Cardiac would be a 6% higher, except would be 19.13% lower in Psionic.

 

**Edit**   Also I think /EA builds will need to take Barrier Core, so you'll have at least another 5% Res in addition to what's shown here even at the end of Barrier taking even more of the pets to cap like Demon Prince.

 

T1's

 

 

 

T2's

 

 

 

T3.  

 

 

 

share this build, chief. you may have here the best overall mm build - period. 

 

why do I say that? you can buy cc protection for yourself from the p2w vendor, and faraday goes a long way to addressing the actual weakness of demons - getting stuck in ragdoll after a knockback. end use would suck if you are trying to keep whip debuffs up and use the rather spammy ea stuff. I find that if you target a t1 for the absorb then the weak t1 pets get the bigger shields while your less vulnearable t2 and t3 get the smaller onces. 

[Dr Causality]

8 hours ago, Dixa said:

share this build, chief. you may have here the best overall mm build - period.

 

 

It won't be top damage, but it is very sturdy, and hold good mitigation.    

 

Here's a link to a new thread with the build, stats and details:

 

 

 

Quote

I find that if you target a t1 for the absorb then the weak t1 pets get the bigger shields while your less vulnearable t2 and t3 get the smaller onces. 

 

This is a good insight!    The Ember Demon can't shield itself, leaving it with the lowest overall Resistance.   And it's Ember shield is critical for maintaining Resistance on everything else, so I've often been targeting it for both the Absorb and Heals.   But the few pets I've lost are typically the T1's, so I should probably switch to your plan.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Dr Causality

[Dr Causality]

Quote

I have heard ramblings and whispers about the potent combination of Demons/EA, with even claims it's a top teir MM powerset selection.

 

On 5/28/2020 at 11:31 AM, Neiska said:

The past 2 or 3 days now, folks on my server in the /help channel ingame were saying that (specifically) demons/EA was the new MM hotness, which had me confused, because as you pointed out wonderfully both in my other post and here, its kind of "just okay". It has some neat effects new to MMs, like the absorb, but not all the powers work as advertised, or isnt of great use to the MM themselves, just on teams. Personally it wasnt my bag of tea, because i found it far too clicky, and i tend to disfavor button-spam heavy builds. Had enough of diablo thank you very much!

 

So I was wondering if I missed an update somewhere, or someone figured something out, or something else. Because ya, I don't think /EA is top shelf. Some may like it and that's great! It just lacks.. oomph.

 

I did think that someone in help was just mistaken or giving bad advice, or heck might still be new like I sort of am. Because I had thought we had done a pretty good job at analyzing /EA and it wasn't the new "hawtness" that a few people in /help were making it out to be.

 

 

I've dug into Demon/EA pretty heavily over the last month both in Mid's and the Test server.       It's absolutely top tier in terms of shear survivability.   I don't think any other MM combo can take, or I should say absorb anywhere near the sustained brutal beating that a Demons/EA can.  

 

But that might not feel so impressive in actual game play, because it also has anemic damage potential.    /EA's damage potential is solidly on the very bottom of all the MM 2ndaries.   

 

I'd rate /EA in probably a threeway tie for last place in DPS potential with /Empath and /FF.    But /EA's survivability also requires some spamming of support buff powers, which further reduces the time your MM has for offense.  So even without having -Regen /FF probably has better DPS potential because it's such a passives set that you have time for full  MM attack chains....    The only DPS in /EA's favor is "Dead pets do no damage; and you will rarely have dead pets...."

 

 /EA

• has no -Ree
• No Damaging powers
• No Dmg proc opportunities
• Only modest -Regen.   
• And it's only DPS buff amounts to about a 21% Dmg buff on all but the first in the chain that gets the full 22.5% buff. 

 

 

Anyway, here's new thread with the best of builds I've been able to come up with: