Fire / Trick Arrow build advice.

[Siderous]

So the below build I have been working on as I level up my new controller, currently 36.  In the build I have hit the soft cap on S/L E/Ne and Ranged.  What Im not sure on, is what I should take for incarnates.  Agility gives me perma hasten and pushes the defenses up 2%ish, while giving a little bit to help with end issues.  However, it does affect my DPS of Char with its procs due to its already fast recharge.  It barely affects procc'e Ice Arrow.  I have thought about removing the procs and going with Apocalypse set on char for the flat damage and the recharge bonus.  I'd push the recharge enhances on hasten to +++ to get perma hasten.  Char damage would be lower but more consistant.  My range def would drop 1.8% and without agility be below 45%, but most of my defense is late build anyways.  

 

With Musculature, I can get of course more damage and the end mod and keep things the way they are in the build but not have perma hasten.  Not sure if it is needed, but I usually like having it especially on sets with long recharges.  Though again, it is only a few seconds of it being down.  

 

Really like the updates to TA and how more versitile it has become.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Hiyumi: Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Slow%(3), GldJvl-Dam%(3), Apc-Dam%(5), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(5), GldNet-Dam%(50)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- EnfOpr-Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(7), Artl-Dam/Rech(7), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(9), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(9), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(11)
Level 4: Flash Arrow -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(13), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(15), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(15), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), CldSns-%Dam(17)
Level 6: Super Speed -- Clr-EndRdx(A)
Level 8: Hot Feet -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Arm-Acc/Rchg(21), Arm-Dam%(21)
Level 10: Ice Arrow -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Slow%(23), UnbCns-Dam%(23), NrnSht-Dam%(25), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(25)
Level 12: Flashfire -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(27), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(27), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(29), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(31)
Level 14: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(31), LucoftheG-Def(33)
Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow -- CaloftheS-Acc/Rchg(A), CaloftheS-EndRdx/Sleep(33), CaloftheS-Acc/EndRdx(33), CaloftheS-Sleep/Rng(34), CaloftheS-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(34)
Level 18: Cinders -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(34), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(36)
Level 20: Glue Arrow -- ImpSwf-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(A)
Level 22: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(36)
Level 26: Bonfire -- PstBls-Acc/Dmg(A), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(37), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(37), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(37), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(39)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(39), LucoftheG-Def(40), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(40)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(40), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(42), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(42), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(43)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(43), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(45), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 38: EMP Arrow -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(45), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(46), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(46)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48), LucoftheG-Def(48), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50), LucoftheG-Def(50)
Level 49: Grant Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(13)
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

[roleki]

Hate to see this languish out here unanswered; even with the TA buffs from I27, I suspect that there will still be a relative dearth of /TA folks running around for a bit.  I've got a Fire/TA and it was decent before the buffs, and its downright indecent afterwards.  Some observations, just from running my own and what I run into over time...

 

If you're going to drop one of the arrows from TA, I would argue it should be PGA, Flash, or Glue Arrow before Acid Arrow.  Acid Arrow is a force multiplier and is "pretty darn good" now.  

 

Perma-Hasten is nice, but it's not really needed with Fire/TA; with the exception of Glue Arrow, Cinders, and EMP Arrow, all of the 'regular' powers are on decent enough timers that global recharge isn't a priority.

 

I would consider dropping Hot Feet; it's of some use in melee but not a good enough reason to get into melee range on its own, especially when all the relevant sets you COULD slot primarily address ranged +def and almost nothing on the melee side.

 

With the slots you save by cutting Hot Feet, you could drop a Kismet +Acc in Maneuvers, and slot a Panacea unique and Preventive Medicine proc in Health to help shore up endurance/survivability.

 

With the open power slot from Hot Feet, you could take Tactics and improve your +4ing, and give your dual ST holds more chance to stack on hard targets.

 

If you're not opposed to frankenslotting, a build like yours you could chunk out a Bonfire every ~13s or so if you slotted it Annihilation Dam/Rech, Annihilation Acc/Dam/Rech, Artillery Dam/Rech, Artillery Acc/Dam/Rech, Sudden Acc KB/Recharge, and Sudden Acc KB:KD; good as one Bonfire is, a second (and third one) is even better 🙂

 

 

As for Incarnates... Alpha Musculature is pretty decent, especially on Fire since damage is already its calling card AND it has 3 pets to benefit from the extra bonus enhancement (as opposed to one or two like most other controller sets get).  Once you're slotted up, Endurance shouldn't be THAT much of a problem, but the extra EndMod from Musculature can make sure of it.  Musculature becomes a more important choice if you opt to go for Hybrid Control as opposed to Assault, and with so many controls (and so many of those controls slotted with procs/damage) you should go Hybrid Control, because those two minutes are amazing.

 

You could always pick up recharge out of Destiny, if you're willing to park in EMP Arrow and only move every 2 minutes or so.  I went with Clarion before the I27 changes, and I'm sticking with it after.  Life as a non-healing support character can get a little crazy, and I like having that emergency button there in my tray 🙂

Edited December 1, 2020 by roleki

[Siderous]

3 hours ago, roleki said:

Hate to see this languish out here unanswered; even with the TA buffs from I27, I suspect that there will still be a relative dearth of /TA folks running around for a bit.  I've got a Fire/TA and it was decent before the buffs, and its downright indecent afterwards.  Some observations, just from running my own and what I run into over time...

 

If you're going to drop one of the arrows from TA, I would argue it should be PGA, Flash, or Glue Arrow before Acid Arrow.  Acid Arrow is a force multiplier and is "pretty darn good" now.  

 

Perma-Hasten is nice, but it's not really needed with Fire/TA; with the exception of Glue Arrow, Cinders, and EMP Arrow, all of the 'regular' powers are on decent enough timers that global recharge isn't a priority.

 

I would consider dropping Hot Feet; it's of some use in melee but not a good enough reason to get into melee range on its own, especially when all the relevant sets you COULD slot primarily address ranged +def and almost nothing on the melee side.

 

With the slots you save by cutting Hot Feet, you could drop a Kismet +Acc in Maneuvers, and slot a Panacea unique and Preventive Medicine proc in Health to help shore up endurance/survivability.

 

With the open power slot from Hot Feet, you could take Tactics and improve your +4ing, and give your dual ST holds more chance to stack on hard targets.

 

If you're not opposed to frankenslotting, a build like yours you could chunk out a Bonfire every ~13s or so if you slotted it Annihilation Dam/Rech, Annihilation Acc/Dam/Rech, Artillery Dam/Rech, Artillery Acc/Dam/Rech, Sudden Acc KB/Recharge, and Sudden Acc KB:KD; good as one Bonfire is, a second (and third one) is even better 🙂

 

 

As for Incarnates... Alpha Musculature is pretty decent, especially on Fire since damage is already its calling card AND it has 3 pets to benefit from the extra bonus enhancement (as opposed to one or two like most other controller sets get).  Once you're slotted up, Endurance shouldn't be THAT much of a problem, but the extra EndMod from Musculature can make sure of it.  Musculature becomes a more important choice if you opt to go for Hybrid Control as opposed to Assault, and with so many controls (and so many of those controls slotted with procs/damage) you should go Hybrid Control, because those two minutes are amazing.

 

You could always pick up recharge out of Destiny, if you're willing to park in EMP Arrow and only move every 2 minutes or so.  I went with Clarion before the I27 changes, and I'm sticking with it after.  Life as a non-healing support character can get a little crazy, and I like having that emergency button there in my tray 🙂

Thanks for the reply.  On teams I find myself just debuffing, with bonfire and flash fire thrown in and sometimes switching to the two holds to lock a boss.  I'm almost thinking on just playing a defender as a TA since my controls aren't being used much anyways. 

 

I like your ideas on slotting. Especially with not worrying about perma hasten.  I was thinking the same for Hot Feet.  I like the idea of it but its just not practical for this set up.  

 

If I continue to 50+ I think I will stick to Musculature like you are saying.  

 

Thanks for the reply.

[oedipus_tex]

IMO if you're going to be skipping Hot Feet it might be worth thinking about whether you'd be happier committing to a different primary powerset. Hot Feet along with Flashfire is one of the main signature moves in Fire Control and usually worth pursuing. If you dislike it and the concept works better for you, a switch from Fire Control to either Gravity or Earth Control would likely be a power upgrade. If you don't mind losing the AoE Stun you could also consider rerolling as a Defender. Ice, Electric, Water, Assault Rifle, Archery, and Beam Rifle all offer ranged nuke options. 

 

Concept is important of course, so if you picked Fire Control for the cages and Gremlins it's not a terrible choice.

 

The main draw of Hot Feet is its absent cast time, which allows you to dish damage without committing to animation lock. Hot Feet deals a fairly respectable 10 damage per pulse which doesn't sound like much, but Containment doubles that to 20. With slotting that rises to around 40 "free" damage every 2 seconds, which is then amplified by your -Resists. 

 

Once upon a time Fire/Rad Controller was considered a decent Controller build thanks to the combo of -Resist debuff and +damage paired with Hot Feet. Trick Arrow does better -Resist than Radiation does, particularly to single target and should be fairly viable.

Edited December 2, 2020 by oedipus_tex

[roleki]

15 hours ago, oedipus_tex said:

IMO if you're going to be skipping Hot Feet it might be worth thinking about whether you'd be happier committing to a different primary powerset. Hot Feet along with Flashfire is one of the main signature moves in Fire Control and usually worth pursuing. If you dislike it and the concept works better for you, a switch from Fire Control to either Gravity or Earth Control would likely be a power upgrade. If you don't mind losing the AoE Stun you could also consider rerolling as a Defender. Ice, Electric, Water, Assault Rifle, Archery, and Beam Rifle all offer ranged nuke options. 

 

Concept is important of course, so if you picked Fire Control for the cages and Gremlins it's not a terrible choice.

 

The main draw of Hot Feet is its absent cast time, which allows you to dish damage without committing to animation lock. Hot Feet deals a fairly respectable 10 damage per pulse which doesn't sound like much, but Containment doubles that to 20. With slotting that rises to around 40 "free" damage every 2 seconds, which is then amplified by your -Resists. 

 

Once upon a time Fire/Rad Controller was considered a decent Controller build thanks to the combo of -Resist debuff and +damage paired with Hot Feet. Trick Arrow does better -Resist than Radiation does, particularly to single target and should be fairly viable.

Granted, every build is going to be a little different, and every player will play those builds a little different, but speaking from my own experience running Fire/TA, I have found that Hot Feet is pretty much unnecessary in that pairing.  By the time I've closed into melee range (if I close into melee range at all) everything that would be most-affected by Hot Feet is already dead.  It might help kick over a hard target a little sooner, but so would a -Res proc in OSA or whatever.  

[Hew]

I run a plant/ta, and at 40+, I am finding most of my action is hold the boss twice (ice arrow, entangler), roots or whatever the aoe immob is, every single ta debuff (+buff?? Go EMP arrow!) I took that is up, creepers, vines on occasion when things get crazy, and massaging Audrey's shoulders when she is tired of eating people. I found seeds to be utterly useless, since by the time I have laid any amount of debuffs on the mobs, they can't hit each other or anybody else, so it was was of a few seconds that I could have used for something else...

 

Creepers + acid arrow + disruption arrow + -res from a dozen other procs + OSA makes for LOTS and LOTS of orange numbers. I don't have a lot of defense, and outside of emp arrow bubble i am not the most sturdy of people, but damn can I melt things, and provide meltage for other people.

 

Layering the many sources of -res procs + disruption + the st immob from ta is just silly sawse.

 

[WillParkinson]

On 12/12/2020 at 11:16 AM, Hew said:

I run a plant/ta, and at 40+, I am finding most of my action is hold the boss twice (ice arrow, entangler), roots or whatever the aoe immob is, every single ta debuff (+buff?? Go EMP arrow!) I took that is up, creepers, vines on occasion when things get crazy, and massaging Audrey's shoulders when she is tired of eating people. I found seeds to be utterly useless, since by the time I have laid any amount of debuffs on the mobs, they can't hit each other or anybody else, so it was was of a few seconds that I could have used for something else...

 

Creepers + acid arrow + disruption arrow + -res from a dozen other procs + OSA makes for LOTS and LOTS of orange numbers. I don't have a lot of defense, and outside of emp arrow bubble i am not the most sturdy of people, but damn can I melt things, and provide meltage for other people.

 

Layering the many sources of -res procs + disruption + the st immob from ta is just silly sawse.

 

I gotta ask, do you have a build for this you'd be willing to share?

[Hew]

13 hours ago, WillParkinson said:

I gotta ask, do you have a build for this you'd be willing to share?

A few things. Disruption arrow has the chance to stun proc and the +run synapse proc. I might swap the run proc, since I use combat teleport to position _extensively_ for positioning, and cheese transit with sprint and/or beast run. Both teleports (tt, ct) take travel, so I slotted them with -kb procs. I might actually pull the one in combat teleport  (the later power) and replace it with an end/range.

 

I find that I do need softcap, from experience on +4 teams, and solo at +2. You pump out so much debuf (-7.71 tohit from flasharrow, tons of +tohit procs, placate (yes, it REALLY works!!), -rech all over the place) that even if you eat some of an alpha, it isnt too bad to recover from.  

 

There are no alphas slotted, but I will probably go with (gasp, big surprise) agility.

 

The other teleport power is teleport target.  Shoved id in a hidden box so not so messy 😄 (I JUST learned about hidden!!)

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Trick Arrow
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(3), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(3), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(5)
Level 1: Entangling Arrow -- PcnoftheT-Rng/Slow(A)
Level 2: Roots -- PstBls-Dmg/Rng(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), PstBls-Dam%(9), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(9), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Flash Arrow -- DarWtcDsp-Slow%(A), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(17), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(34), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(34), SphIns-%ToHit(46)
Level 6: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Glue Arrow -- PcnoftheT-Rng/Slow(A), PcnoftheT--Rchg%(31)
Level 10: Ice Arrow -- NrnSht-Dam%(A), NrnSht-Acc/EndRdx(11), UnbCns-Dam%(11), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(13), GhsWdwEmb-Acc/EndRdx(13), ImpSwf-Dam%(15)
Level 12: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(25), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 14: Recall Friend -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 16: Poison Gas Arrow -- FrtHyp-Plct%(A), IndCom--Rchg%(17)
Level 18: Vines -- BslGaz-Slow%(A), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(19), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(19), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Acid Arrow -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), PstBls-Dam%(21), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(21), ShlBrk-%Dam(33), TchofLadG-%Dam(33), AnlWkn-%ToHit(33)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(23), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(31)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- Ann-Dmg/Rchg(A), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(27), ImpSwf-Dam%(27), Ann-ResDeb%(29), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(29), PstBls-Dam%(31)
Level 28: Disruption Arrow -- Empty(A), Empty(46)
Level 30: Teleport -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), TchofLadG-%Dam(40), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(43), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(45)
Level 35: Oil Slick Arrow -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), Bmbdmt-Dam(36), Ann-ResDeb%(36), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(36), TchofLadG-DefDeb/Rchg(37), Bmbdmt-Acc/Dam/Rech(37)
Level 38: EMP Arrow -- BslGaz-Slow%(A), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(39), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(39), SynSck-Dam/Rech(40), SynSck-Dam/Rech/Acc(46)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-EndRdx(42), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(42), Rct-ResDam%(42), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(45)
Level 44: Poisonous Ray -- TchofLadG-DefDeb/Rchg(A), Apc-Dam%(50)
Level 47: Disruptor Blast -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(48), PstBls-Dam%(48), FrcFdb-Rechg%(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(50), RedFrt-EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A), Clr-EndRdx(7)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PwrTrns-+Heal(A), PwrTrns-EndMod(43)
------------

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Hew

[Hew]

edit: ok, maybe intuition radial paragon...