Makeups and belts.

[captainstar]

Hi,
I wanted the makeup options for women to be separated from the masks. So they can wear makeup while wearing masks.
And a few more belts that shine would also be great! That jewel belt could have a shine option, for example.

[Greycat]

While I don't disagree (on the first bit) since I like having more options,  I believe the issue is that the number of - let's say "nodes" - to do things on characters are very limited. So the - I think it's six? - makeup options have to share the same "space" as masks. (This limit is also why we don't have, say, "leg sheath/holsters" and/or "arm sheath/holster/gear" that isn't tied directly to bottoms or tops, for instance.)

 

At least that's how I recall it from the live devs.

 

Whether the way we're getting more asymmetry is at all related to fixing or getting around that, I'm in no position to say. 

[Flashtoo]

Makeup and masks aren't really "separate" costume parts the way face details are - they're surface patterns overlaid on the head part, same as choosing "Diablo" or "Blend" or whatever on your tights. That's why the eyebrows and any scars that are part of the face you chose show through the mask if it's colored anything but black. We do not have the technology to add two color overlays on the same piece.

 

 

Agreed on the jewel belt though!

Edited December 14, 2020 by Flashtoo

[captainstar]

2 hours ago, Flashtoo said:

Makeup and masks aren't really "separate" costume parts the way face details are - they're surface patterns overlaid on the head part, same as choosing "Diablo" or "Blend" or whatever on your tights. That's why the eyebrows and any scars that are part of the face you chose show through the mask if it's colored anything but black. We do not have the technology to add two color overlays on the same piece.

 

 

Agreed on the jewel belt though!

Tks! But I am not trying to demand these changes, I just give some suggestions here to find out if it is possible to apply it. Maybe one day.... hopefully.

[Player2]

What we need are more masks that are not simply color overlays.  We have the jester mask (long and short nose), the hockey mask, some elemental thing, and women have the carnival masks.  Personally, I would love to have a domino style mask that goes over the face like the jester mask (but with actual eye holes like the carnival masks).

[Greycat]

15 hours ago, captainstar said:

Tks! But I am not trying to demand these changes, I just give some suggestions here to find out if it is possible to apply it. Maybe one day.... hopefully.

Oh, nobody's saying not to suggest it. 🙂 Just pointing out where the current roadblocks are.

[Flashtoo]

18 hours ago, captainstar said:

Tks! But I am not trying to demand these changes, I just give some suggestions here to find out if it is possible to apply it. Maybe one day.... hopefully.

If a bunch of simple separate mask pieces were created using geometry designed to fit closely over the existing head model and respond to the weight sliders the same way, they could be added to the eye details category so as not to interfere with the face tint pattern - this is how the black arm and body tattoos on the Destroyers are done, while still allowing them the use of the Blend pattern for their orangeness. It would, however, require the creation of brand new assets, and it would either require the addition of a new attachment node to the character models or not be usable at the same time as other eye details.

[Player2]

On 12/13/2020 at 5:57 PM, Flashtoo said:

Makeup and masks aren't really "separate" costume parts the way face details are - they're surface patterns overlaid on the head part, same as choosing "Diablo" or "Blend" or whatever on your tights. That's why the eyebrows and any scars that are part of the face you chose show through the mask if it's colored anything but black. We do not have the technology to add two color overlays on the same piece.

 

Don't we, though?  Why is the application of a pattern any different than adding new geometry with other pieces?  Since HC took over, we've gotten asymmetrical boots and gloves and then shoulder pieces, and separate aura & travel aura as well as a glimpse at a possible multiple auras...  I would love to see patterned pieces (including faces) get a similar treatment with a split allowing for a Pattern 1 and Pattern 2 over top of it.  Not only would this allow make up & masks, but could also allow for new pattern pieces with combined patterns.

[JKPhage]

2 hours ago, Player2 said:

Don't we, though?  Why is the application of a pattern any different than adding new geometry with other pieces?  Since HC took over, we've gotten asymmetrical boots and gloves and then shoulder pieces, and separate aura & travel aura as well as a glimpse at a possible multiple auras...  I would love to see patterned pieces (including faces) get a similar treatment with a split allowing for a Pattern 1 and Pattern 2 over top of it.  Not only would this allow make up & masks, but could also allow for new pattern pieces with combined patterns.

This. I'm particularly excited for the possibility of multiple auras (for real, I might want my eyes to always glow but have the rest of me light up differently in combat! or a police character with WEEWOO red and blue glowing hands layered over super strength!) but it's been shown that many of the "limitations" of the character creator are able to be overcome now. When COH was live, they were a business and had to prioritize things. The effort it would take to split up asymmetrical parts could be better spent giving us new costume pieces altogether, or new auras, or premium costume packs, etc., or having that man power devoted to building a new enemy group to feature in the brand new story arcs they were putting out. We've been shown that when that sort of thing isn't a priority, things previously written off as "very unlikely" are now very possible. Hell, some other servers have easily cracked the MM pet customization code, and I'm very much looking forward to that being a possibility on HC sometime in the future so I might actually be inclined to play one seriously.

 

As far as multiple overlays, I don't see how it wouldn't be possible. As a proof of concept, one of the devs posted a screenshot showing something like 16 aura slots all running a different color in the same slot and a couple in different positions. I don't think it would be out of the question to add multiple color overlays to the face, allowing us to create some unique mask/cowl combos with something like... say Jongo and Demise to create a full-face mask with a skull motif instead of the half-cover/face paint look it is now. Likewise being able to layer two patterns on the body could be very interesting indeed, allowing for some cool combos that wouldn't be possible before.

 

That said, I think I'd also just prefer some separate geometry domino-style masks as you mentioned. Something simple to color with eye holes if we want, and maybe another option with the classic comic-style whited out eyes, like Batman/Robin or Umbrella Academy. I know I'd love something like that so I could possibly make a decent Spider-Man expy character that doesn't look too "chinese knockoff". That would also allow the aforementioned makeup + mask combo, because I certainly wouldn't mind having a cat burglar character who robs in style with a classy mask and some vivid red lipstick to show off.

[Flashtoo]

On 12/16/2020 at 9:39 AM, Player2 said:

Don't we, though?  Why is the application of a pattern any different than adding new geometry with other pieces?  Since HC took over, we've gotten asymmetrical boots and gloves and then shoulder pieces, and separate aura & travel aura as well as a glimpse at a possible multiple auras...  I would love to see patterned pieces (including faces) get a similar treatment with a split allowing for a Pattern 1 and Pattern 2 over top of it.  Not only would this allow make up & masks, but could also allow for new pattern pieces with combined patterns.

 

Because geometry and textures/shaders are two completely different things. All the things you have cited are examples of geometry advances, dictated by changing and adjusting the skeleton and vertices of the character models, i.e. the 3D aspects of game graphics. The question of having two pattern overlays at the same time is one that concerns the 2D surface textures and is more closely linked to the inherent capabilities of the graphics engine itself. Some things just don't work together in a straightforward manner.

 

However, as I said before: There is a workaround, albeit a hugely labor-intensive one, that allows a second instance of a pattern overlay to be present that wouldn't require a rewrite of the graphics engine. It would require the addition of new geometry, using the textures we already have, though it would require the addition of still more attachment points. A close fitting 'shell' geometry, basically a copy of whatever basic body part is underneath it whether it's a head, glove, pants, whatever, where the chosen color-overlay pattern dictates alpha transparency instead of color, in theory, be applied over top of existing pattern-overlayable costume parts, somewhat similar to the way chest emblems work presently. However, implementing this would mean creating a new 'shell' for each and every costume part currently available that takes pattern overlays, and almost doubling the number of attachment points on the character models. It's not impossible, but I want to make it clear just how much work would be involved in a seemingly simple change.

 

Source: Been modding video game graphics with main focus on 2D aspects for at least ten years; have contributed 2D graphical work to Homecoming project.


EDIT: Realizing I may have gotten a little off-topic into the nuts-and-bolts theory of the thing, I feel I should clarify that using this technique only for heads, thus allowing the mask-plus-makeup that was the original source of the question, wouldn't be anywhere near such an endeavor and would be very plausible as an addition if you ask me. If you were only applying it to heads, and then only the human heads that lack 'special' geometry (like not the wide-mouthed Talons head or the zombie heads, for instance), it would be only one additional attachment point and only three adjusted geometries.

Edited December 19, 2020 by Flashtoo