StrJustice/Bio Scrapper or Stalker?

[ceto555]

Hi,

 

Which of these two Scrapper or Stalker would be better for soloing hard stuff like AV and such at end game?

 

Thanks!

[nihilii]

Scrapper:

- same DPS

- slightly higher survivability

- has aggro control (AVs won't run)

 

Stalker:

- higher burst damage

 

On either AT it will be strong enough to solo AVs with ease, but Scrapper has the clear advantage.

 

Note that by "endgame" I assume "incarnate and IOed out to the gills with a dedicated DPS build". The more casual or the lower level the build, the more likely the Stalker might outdamage the Scrapper.

[StriderIV]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

Scrapper:

- same DPS

- slightly higher survivability

- has aggro control (AVs won't run)

 

Stalker:

- higher burst damage

 

On either AT it will be strong enough to solo AVs with ease, but Scrapper has the clear advantage.

 

Note that by "endgame" I assume "incarnate and IOed out to the gills with a dedicated DPS build". The more casual or the lower level the build, the more likely the Stalker might outdamage the Scrapper.

I’ve been looking at this exact build myself. I hear everyone gush over stalker, but I miss the rib cracker animation if I choose Stalker.

 

QQ: Bio seems to be the go to secondary when it comes to fighting AV’s or GM’s.

 

Which do you think, on a scrapper, could be more powerful paired with it: Street Justice or Dark Melee?

[nihilii]

6 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Which do you think, on a scrapper, could be more powerful paired with it: Street Justice or Dark Melee?

STJ, for sure. Dark Melee is fun and has neat tools, but just doesn't match the single target damage of Street Justice.

[StriderIV]

47 minutes ago, nihilii said:

STJ, for sure. Dark Melee is fun and has neat tools, but just doesn't match the single target damage of Street Justice.

Nice man. I know everyone talks about TW/Bio, but what other power set combo would you say is a premier AV killer? I’m assuming /Bio is the best secondary for it, unless you think something like /Rad or maybe /shield could match it. 
 

I could see StJ/Bio being up there. Would love to hear your thoughts if you think there are ones that are better.

[nihilii]

EM/Bio is possibly top dog for that purpose right now. The EM buff played out really well especially for scrappers, not only you can deal top tier damage but you can manipulate the Critical Strikes ATO to turn ET into a heal rather than a HP loss. EM is also incredibly end efficient, and of course mostly deals in rarely resisted energy damage.

 

EM/Shield is definitely a strong contender for that reason. /Shield loves a heal, and provides you with sturdier defenses than /Bio. It will deal less damage but should be safer.

 

Rad/Bio and Rad/Shield are also great, somewhat for the same reasons. Rad Melee needs to be procced out to deal competitive damage, much moreso than other primaries, but it deals very competitive damage with the proc approach; and again, provides you with a reliable heal as part of your attack chain, lets you deal mostly energy damage.

 

War Mace/Bio hits like a truck against anything that lacks strong smashing resistances. Arguaby still hits like a truck against anything *with* strong smashing resistances. War Mace is strong. It also has a "no frills" attack chain, no combos no nothing, which makes the powerset versatile in how you need to react and adapt to various conditions.

 

/Rad is a great secondary in its own right, not to the level of /Bio or /Shield when it comes to the offensive boost against a single target. But more than capable regardless, especially if you stack Shadow Meld on it (which you likely should anyway. Moonbeam and Shadow Meld are optimal for so many Scrapper AV builds). /Rad has fantastic end management, great overall resistances and absorb/healing/regen, it makes for a sturdier "I know I'm going to get hit but I also know it's not going to hurt too much" experience. With something like Street Justice in particular, it can be a nice way to balance the lack of AoE in primary with procced out Ground Zero and/or Radiation Therapy.

[StriderIV]

6 hours ago, nihilii said:

EM/Bio is possibly top dog for that purpose right now. The EM buff played out really well especially for scrappers, not only you can deal top tier damage but you can manipulate the Critical Strikes ATO to turn ET into a heal rather than a HP loss. EM is also incredibly end efficient, and of course mostly deals in rarely resisted energy damage.

 

EM/Shield is definitely a strong contender for that reason. /Shield loves a heal, and provides you with sturdier defenses than /Bio. It will deal less damage but should be safer.

 

Rad/Bio and Rad/Shield are also great, somewhat for the same reasons. Rad Melee needs to be procced out to deal competitive damage, much moreso than other primaries, but it deals very competitive damage with the proc approach; and again, provides you with a reliable heal as part of your attack chain, lets you deal mostly energy damage.

 

War Mace/Bio hits like a truck against anything that lacks strong smashing resistances. Arguaby still hits like a truck against anything *with* strong smashing resistances. War Mace is strong. It also has a "no frills" attack chain, no combos no nothing, which makes the powerset versatile in how you need to react and adapt to various conditions.

 

/Rad is a great secondary in its own right, not to the level of /Bio or /Shield when it comes to the offensive boost against a single target. But more than capable regardless, especially if you stack Shadow Meld on it (which you likely should anyway. Moonbeam and Shadow Meld are optimal for so many Scrapper AV builds). /Rad has fantastic end management, great overall resistances and absorb/healing/regen, it makes for a sturdier "I know I'm going to get hit but I also know it's not going to hurt too much" experience. With something like Street Justice in particular, it can be a nice way to balance the lack of AoE in primary with procced out Ground Zero and/or Radiation Therapy.

This is amazing man, thank you! Tons of good options for me to play around with.

 

EM/Bio does sound like a monster. I have an EM/EA stalker who is probably currently my best AV fighter. 
 

My farmer is a Rad/Fire, so I get plenty of that 😂 Mace/Bio and StJ/Bio of StJ/Rad all sound like they could really fit the bill. I MIGHT role with one of those combos, since I have 2 shield tankers already. 
 

My worry with /Rad was that it might be more optimal on a Brute/Tanker since it is primarily a resist set.

[aethereal]

On 1/29/2021 at 2:20 PM, nihilii said:

Scrapper:

- same DPS

- slightly higher survivability

- has aggro control (AVs won't run)

 

Stalker:

- higher burst damage

 

On either AT it will be strong enough to solo AVs with ease, but Scrapper has the clear advantage.

I think Stalker StJ has obviously higher sustained AND burst damage.  Bio is fairly clearly better on a scrapper than a stalker, but StJ is fairly clearly better on a stalker than a scrapper.

 

(Stalker StJ gets:  Assassin's Strike instead of Rib Cracker, with AS doing 2 combo instead of 1.  And Build Up instead of whatever it's called for StJ.  Since you can build to 3 combo with just Shin Breaker > Assassin's Strike, you can use a much higher density of harder-hitting attacks in your ST attack chain.  You can also get to roughly 85% chance of every CU critting, instead of 50%.)

[nihilii]

6 hours ago, aethereal said:

I think Stalker StJ has obviously higher sustained AND burst damage.  Bio is fairly clearly better on a scrapper than a stalker, but StJ is fairly clearly better on a stalker than a scrapper.

I agree in an ideal world it should be that way, but unfortunately it doesn't play out this way. You can look at the Pylon thread to see stj/bio scrappers slightly edge out stj/bio stalkers.

 

In itself that result hints at further issues in the "real" game: stalkers have more conditional DPS (hide must not be broken by AV attacks before the crit happens, AS stacks must be built), lack aggro aura (AVs will run).

 

More thoughts on the topic here:

 

[aethereal]

5 hours ago, nihilii said:

I agree in an ideal world it should be that way, but unfortunately it doesn't play out this way. You can look at the Pylon thread to see stj/bio scrappers slightly edge out stj/bio stalkers.

 

In itself that result hints at further issues in the "real" game: stalkers have more conditional DPS (hide must not be broken by AV attacks before the crit happens, AS stacks must be built), lack aggro aura (AVs will run).

 

More thoughts on the topic here:

 

 

There's a few things mixed in here that I'm trying to separate, though.  Bio is better on scrappers than stalkers: you get a larger damage bonus on to of a higher base damage, and you get a damage (and yes, taunt) aura.

 

The mechanics of scrapper high-damage ST chains vs stalker ones are another thing, sure.  I'd certainly be fine with stalker epic snipes giving AF and having the cooldown on the chance to hide proc reduced to like six seconds.

 

But StJ, in isolation, doesn't seem like a great scrapper set.  It has a bad build up -- anyone think it's a particularly great one?  Its one high damage attack is encumbered by combo mechanics and a longer recharge than it "should" have.  Stalkers get way more efficient combo building with AS.

 

Now, I'll take your at your word that the advantages of bio armor and perhaps ATOs end up tipping the balance slightly in the other direction, but StJ is a great stalker set and an underwhelming scrapper set.

[nihilii]

We're in a topic specifically asking about stj/bio scrapper vs stalker for the purpose of soloing AVs, so my answer only means to answer that focused question. I don't mean to imply any general statement regarding the relative worth of StJ scrapper compared to other scrapper options and the relative worth of StJ stalkers compared to other stalker options.

 

In any case, if we remain on the AV soloing topic, I would argue against scrapper StJ being an underwhelming powerset even once we remove /bio from the equation.

 

- Battle Axe, Dark Melee, Elec Melee, Ice Melee, Kinetic Melee, Psionic Melee, Savage Melee, Spines and Staff (9) are clearly under StJ in ST damage output.

- Broad Sword, Dual Blades, Fiery Melee, Katana (4) are probably either slightly lower or in the same range.

- Claws, Energy Melee, Radiation, Titan Weapons and War Mace (5) are at least in the same league and likely better if you go all out.

I'd rank StJ as somewhere in the #6 to #8 range out of 19 spots for scrapper AV soloing. Not the best, but somewhere in the top third. You could do a lot worse!

 

Some of the disadvantages you mention are advantages in the context of a highend build. Crushing Uppercut being given 25s base recharge makes for a higher proc rate. That recharge also meshes well with Moonbeam's 24 seconds. By happenstance the combo system works out nicely for a highend Scrapper build, as you can run Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Crushing Uppercut -> Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Moonbeam. Having 4 combo building attacks every cycle makes for near guaranteed Combo Level 3 on every Crushing Uppercut use. That chain also maintains high -RES through Achilles' Heel in SB and Rib Cracker's native -RES.

 

I'm not trying to be daft, I understand where you're coming from. If we think of the relative standing of each version of the powerset within their own AT, stalker StJ is #2 (EM takes the crown). Which makes it odd instinctively to read recommendations of Scrapper StJ over Stalker StJ. But it is my opinion (that so far I haven't been able to disprove) Scrappers, especially /bio Scrappers, have numerous advantages in the practical scenario of AV soloing.

Edited February 1, 2021 by nihilii

[StriderIV]

1 hour ago, nihilii said:

We're in a topic specifically asking about stj/bio scrapper vs stalker for the purpose of soloing AVs, so my answer only means to answer that focused question. I don't mean to imply any general statement regarding the relative worth of StJ scrapper compared to other scrapper options and the relative worth of StJ stalkers compared to other stalker options.

 

In any case, if we remain on the AV soloing topic, I would argue against scrapper StJ being an underwhelming powerset even once we remove /bio from the equation.

 

- Battle Axe, Dark Melee, Elec Melee, Ice Melee, Kinetic Melee, Psionic Melee, Savage Melee, Spines and Staff (9) are clearly under StJ in ST damage output.

- Broad Sword, Dual Blades, Fiery Melee, Katana (4) are probably either slightly lower or in the same range.

- Claws, Energy Melee, Radiation, Titan Weapons and War Mace (5) are at least in the same league and likely better if you go all out.

I'd rank StJ as somewhere in the #6 to #8 range out of 19 spots for scrapper AV soloing. Not the best, but somewhere in the top third. You could do a lot worse!

 

Some of the disadvantages you mention are advantages in the context of a highend build. Crushing Uppercut being given 25s base recharge makes for a higher proc rate. That recharge also meshes well with Moonbeam's 24 seconds. By happenstance the combo system works out nicely for a highend Scrapper build, as you can run Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Crushing Uppercut -> Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Moonbeam. Having 4 combo building attacks every cycle makes for near guaranteed Combo Level 3 on every Crushing Uppercut use. That chain also maintains high -RES through Achilles' Heel in SB and Rib Cracker's native -RES.

 

I'm not trying to be daft, I understand where you're coming from. If we think of the relative standing of each version of the powerset within their own AT, stalker StJ is #2 (EM takes the crown). Which makes it odd instinctively to read recommendations of Scrapper StJ over Stalker StJ. But it is my opinion (that so far I haven't been able to disprove) Scrappers, especially /bio Scrappers, have numerous advantages in the practical scenario of AV soloing.

Really cool breakdown nihili. Obviously we discussed that EM is the kind of single target damage and fighting AV’s. I was interested to see Claws in there ranked above StJ though! What makes it so strong on a scrapper? And what secondaries does it mesh with to make it particularly good at taking out AV’s?

[nihilii]

Claws has Follow Up and fast attacks with good variety when it comes to proc options. I don't recall if it is superior to StJ or just in the same range, so perhaps I misspoke, but I wanted to err on the side of safety and not sell it short. 😄

 

The highest ST DPS builds will leverage Follow Up (+DMG, Hecatomb proc), Focus (ranged procs and overall great DPA), Slash (Achilles' Heel, melee procs), Shockwave (Annilihation, targeted AoE procs) and of course Moonbeam. /Bio is as always the secondary of choice. I'd pick /Rad and /Invul as solid alternatives, if only because they have an aggro aura.

 

...I guess by that same tune I ought to include /WP. /WP just never comes to mind as it feels too much like a poor man's /invul these days. Poor Willpower.

[Frosticus]

Hilariously on my  EM/FA scrap the 0 cost of ET allowed me to get out of a sapper situation that I wasn't paying attention to.

 

 

[StriderIV]

3 hours ago, nihilii said:

Claws has Follow Up and fast attacks with good variety when it comes to proc options. I don't recall if it is superior to StJ or just in the same range, so perhaps I misspoke, but I wanted to err on the side of safety and not sell it short. 😄

 

The highest ST DPS builds will leverage Follow Up (+DMG, Hecatomb proc), Focus (ranged procs and overall great DPA), Slash (Achilles' Heel, melee procs), Shockwave (Annilihation, targeted AoE procs) and of course Moonbeam. /Bio is as always the secondary of choice. I'd pick /Rad and /Invul as solid alternatives, if only because they have an aggro aura.

 

...I guess by that same tune I ought to include /WP. /WP just never comes to mind as it feels too much like a poor man's /invul these days. Poor Willpower.

Awesome breakdown man. I’m really torn for my next scrapper. I have an EM Stalker, so it leaves my options as:

 

Street Justice

Claws 

Katana

 

matched with either /Rad or /Bio. Any specific combo out of those you’d recommend for taking down AV’s/Fun Factor? Haha 

[nihilii]

3 hours ago, StriderIV said:

[StJ, Claws, Katana] matched with either /Rad or /Bio. Any specific combo out of those you’d recommend for taking down AV’s/Fun Factor? Haha 

Personally? I'd go with StJ/Bio. It's plain fun to smack an AV with a CL 3 Crushing Uppercut under Gaussian Build Up after you've set up -RES through your other powers. Great animation, big chunk of damage, you watch that HP bar move and it feels right.

 

AoE might be ugly, but it never bothered me too much. I take DNA Siphon and proc it out - boom, poor man's PBAoE. The damage aura does the rest. It's never going to be as fast as a primary with actual good AoEs, but if you get into the grove of punching everything to death 1 by 1, who cares.

 

I like that with a Critical Strikes proc in Crushing Uppercut and procced out Rib Cracker + Shin Breaker, you're almost guaranteed to defeat a +4 minion in one hit regardless of what you use. So when stuff is scattered, you move from enemy to enemy taking them down in a single blow, one after another. It meshes well with that gritty brawler feel Street Justice conjures.

There is of course the option to replace /Bio with /Rad, and have better AoE output through procced out Radiation Therapy *and* Ground Zero. To be honest, again speaking from a personal "fun factor" perspective... I prefer sticking with /Bio there. The cool thing with damage auras is 1) their damage really add up over time 2) their damage happens while you do other things. You whack the bosses, minions fall as you do it.

 

Plus, /Bio -RES and damage boost through Offensive Mode is again key to getting that "one shot everything" feel.

Claws/Bio can also be great fun. With Shockwave, your enemies spend more time on their back than doing anything else; and between Focus, Shockwave and Moonbeam, you've got a wealth of ranged options to make you more versatile. Spin does absolutely bonkers damage, especially if you use it after a Critical Strikes proc.

 

I am not fond of Katana. Soaring Dragon lifts things up, and unlike Crushing Uppercut doesn't always do enough damage to kill them on the spot. There's no really big hitter, but it doesn't feel as fast as Claws either. You have to press press press these hotkeys to keep the damage coming, yet it doesn't seem enough damage comes. And for one more very subjective complaint, I find it easier to rationalize Moonbeam on a weaponless set like StJ or even with Claws than with Katana; if I have a sword, I want to use my sword, damn it. Katana is actually a good set, but it doesn't click with me. YMMV.

 

(I probably just convinced myself I need to have another go at Katana and try to make it work.)

 

 

[StriderIV]

8 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Personally? I'd go with StJ/Bio. It's plain fun to smack an AV with a CL 3 Crushing Uppercut under Gaussian Build Up after you've set up -RES through your other powers. Great animation, big chunk of damage, you watch that HP bar move and it feels right.

 

AoE might be ugly, but it never bothered me too much. I take DNA Siphon and proc it out - boom, poor man's PBAoE. The damage aura does the rest. It's never going to be as fast as a primary with actual good AoEs, but if you get into the grove of punching everything to death 1 by 1, who cares.

 

I like that with a Critical Strikes proc in Crushing Uppercut and procced out Rib Cracker + Shin Breaker, you're almost guaranteed to defeat a +4 minion in one hit regardless of what you use. So when stuff is scattered, you move from enemy to enemy taking them down in a single blow, one after another. It meshes well with that gritty brawler feel Street Justice conjures.

There is of course the option to replace /Bio with /Rad, and have better AoE output through procced out Radiation Therapy *and* Ground Zero. To be honest, again speaking from a personal "fun factor" perspective... I prefer sticking with /Bio there. The cool thing with damage auras is 1) their damage really add up over time 2) their damage happens while you do other things. You whack the bosses, minions fall as you do it.

 

Plus, /Bio -RES and damage boost through Offensive Mode is again key to getting that "one shot everything" feel.

Claws/Bio can also be great fun. With Shockwave, your enemies spend more time on their back than doing anything else; and between Focus, Shockwave and Moonbeam, you've got a wealth of ranged options to make you more versatile. Spin does absolutely bonkers damage, especially if you use it after a Critical Strikes proc.

 

I am not fond of Katana. Soaring Dragon lifts things up, and unlike Crushing Uppercut doesn't always do enough damage to kill them on the spot. There's no really big hitter, but it doesn't feel as fast as Claws either. You have to press press press these hotkeys to keep the damage coming, yet it doesn't seem enough damage comes. And for one more very subjective complaint, I find it easier to rationalize Moonbeam on a weaponless set like StJ or even with Claws than with Katana; if I have a sword, I want to use my sword, damn it. Katana is actually a good set, but it doesn't click with me. YMMV.

 

(I probably just convinced myself I need to have another go at Katana and try to make it work.)

 

 

I appreciate you taking the time to write this all down! I think you may have sold me on the SJ/Bio Scrapper (maybe Guyver or Power Ranger themed =P)

 

It truly seems like it’s a “1 on 1” set and I like that. I have a lv 50 Claws/Elec Brute, so it might be nice to switch it up.

 

There is a decent amount of info out there on StJ/Bio scrappers. Do you have a link to a guide you’d recommend, or perhaps a build you use? The procs sound spicy haha.

 

Appreciate it!

[aethereal]

13 hours ago, nihilii said:

Some of the disadvantages you mention are advantages in the context of a highend build. Crushing Uppercut being given 25s base recharge makes for a higher proc rate.

 

If Crushing Uppercut had the 20 second recharge rate that it's "supposed" to, what proc rate would you lose?  A 3.5PPM damage proc in a 20 second recharge power with a 2.17s cast time is well over the cap (it's 129%).  I guess you can get a better proc rate out of Force Feedback (90% vs 74%), but what else has a low enough PPM that you don't "waste" that 5 seconds of recharge time?

 

Quote

That recharge also meshes well with Moonbeam's 24 seconds. By happenstance the combo system works out nicely for a highend Scrapper build, as you can run Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Crushing Uppercut -> Shin Breaker -> Rib Cracker -> Moonbeam. Having 4 combo building attacks every cycle makes for near guaranteed Combo Level 3 on every Crushing Uppercut use. That chain also maintains high -RES through Achilles' Heel in SB and Rib Cracker's native -RES.

 

Shin breaker takes the same enhancements in every AT, and you'll use it twice per attack cycle pretty much no matter what.  Rib Cracker's -res is nice, but it's the lowest DPS component of the attack chain and you have to use it twice in every rotation.  That rotation also feels awkward for your ATO proc.  Where are you putting it?

Edited February 2, 2021 by aethereal

[nihilii]

4 hours ago, aethereal said:

If Crushing Uppercut had the 20 second recharge rate that it's "supposed" to, what proc rate would you lose?  A 3.5PPM damage proc in a 20 second recharge power with a 2.17s cast time is well over the cap (it's 129%).  I guess you can get a better proc rate out of Force Feedback (90% vs 74%), but what else has a low enough PPM that you don't "waste" that 5 seconds of recharge time?

I stand corrected on that one! I always thought the ATO (3 PPM) wouldn't have enough to be at 90% due to its innate recharge component, but you're right: even there, we remain at 90% chance.

 

Which answers your next question: ATO goes in Crushing Uppercut. This makes Shin Breaker and Rib Cracker hard hitters half of the time.

[nihilii]

10 hours ago, StriderIV said:

Do you have a link to a guide you’d recommend, or perhaps a build you use?

Having nothing saved on this computer, I used the excuse to remake a build from scratch, the way I'd do it now

 

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It would run with Ageless Destiny, Assault Hybrid, Degen Interface.

- a procced out DNA Siphon deals some damage and sets up -RES for your next hits. It's not worth using against single AVs as a damage power, but if you need to heal, you lose much less DPS than you would with traditional slotting. The -RES can also make it worth it if you have your Lore pets out, or teammates.

- 100% slow resist, not a critical part of the build but something I love personally and fit whenever I can. This is mostly the reason for slotting Synapse's in Inexhaustible, and the misc Winter Sets here and there. Someone who doesn't care about slow resistance could save those slots for other purposes. I skimp on S/L res for example; partly because the Reactive Defense IO scaling at lower health, Evolving Armor with multiple targets, eventual insps or buffs here and there are common enough to push 60% to 75%; partly because with Shadow Meld + Bio clicks, we're sturdy enough against S/L damage most of the time. /bio tends to die to energy damage and defense debuffs more than anything.

[StriderIV]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Having nothing saved on this computer, I used the excuse to remake a build from scratch, the way I'd do it now

 

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It would run with Ageless Destiny, Assault Hybrid, Degen Interface.

- a procced out DNA Siphon deals some damage and sets up -RES for your next hits. It's not worth using against single AVs as a damage power, but if you need to heal, you lose much less DPS than you would with traditional slotting. The -RES can also make it worth it if you have your Lore pets out, or teammates.

- 100% slow resist, not a critical part of the build but something I love personally and fit whenever I can. This is mostly the reason for slotting Synapse's in Inexhaustible, and the misc Winter Sets here and there. Someone who doesn't care about slow resistance could save those slots for other purposes. I skimp on S/L res for example; partly because the Reactive Defense IO scaling at lower health, Evolving Armor with multiple targets, eventual insps or buffs here and there are common enough to push 60% to 75%; partly because with Shadow Meld + Bio clicks, we're sturdy enough against S/L damage most of the time. /bio tends to die to energy damage and defense debuffs more than anything.

You’re a legend Nihilii.

 

This info is gold. Unfortunately for me, my Mac is not jiving with Mids at the moment. Is there a way for you to copy and paste the build in text form in the thread?

[nihilii]

Feeling pretty dumb as I can't seem to get the forum export working. Here goes in plain text:

 

Spoiler

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Street Justice
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1:    Heavy Blow    
 (A) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
 (50) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance/Accuracy/RechargeTime

Level 1:    Hardened Carapace    
 (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
 (3) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
 (3) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
 (15) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)

Level 2:    Inexhaustible    
 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
 (23) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
 (23) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Recharge
 (46) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
 (46) Synapse's Shock - EndMod

Level 4:    Environmental Modification    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (5) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
 (5) Reactive Defenses - Defense
 (7) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
 (7) Kismet - Accuracy +6%

Level 6:    Combat Readiness    
 (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up

Level 8:    Rib Cracker    
 (A) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (9) Gladiator's Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
 (9) Mako's Bite - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
 (11) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage
 (11) Superior Blistering Cold - Damage/Endurance
 (13) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance

Level 10:    Adaptation    
Level 12:    Combat Jumping    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (25) Winter's Gift - Slow Resistance (20%)

Level 14:    Hasten    
 (A) Recharge Reduction IO
 (15) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 16:    Ablative Carapace    
 (A) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
 (17) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
 (17) Preventive Medicine - Endurance/RechargeTime
 (19) Preventive Medicine - Heal/Endurance
 (19) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance
 (21) Preventive Medicine - Heal

Level 18:    Boxing    
 (A) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
 (43) Absolute Amazement - Stun
 (45) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
 (45) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
 (46) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge

Level 20:    Evolving Armor    
 (A) Titanium Coating - Resistance
 (21) Titanium Coating - Resistance/Endurance

Level 22:    Tough    
 (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 24:    Weave    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 26:    Shin Breaker    
 (A) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff
 (27) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
 (27) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (29) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)
 (29) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage
 (31) Damage Increase IO

Level 28:    DNA Siphon    
 (A) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
 (31) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
 (31) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage
 (34) Touch of the Nictus - Chance for Negative Energy Damage
 (37) Scirocco's Dervish - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
 (40) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff

Level 30:    Maneuvers    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed

Level 32:    Crushing Uppercut    
 (A) Hecatomb - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (33) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance
 (33) Hecatomb - Damage
 (33) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (34) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
 (34) Superior Critical Strikes - RechargeTime/+50% Crit Proc

Level 35:    Genetic Contamination    
 (A) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
 (36) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (36) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (36) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
 (37) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
 (37) Superior Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge

Level 38:    Moonbeam    
 (A) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
 (39) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance
 (39) Apocalypse - Damage
 (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
 (40) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
 (40) Sting of the Manticore - Chance of Damage(Toxic)

Level 41:    Shadow Meld    
 (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
 (42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense

Level 44:    Parasitic Aura    
 (A) Preventive Medicine - Heal
 (45) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime
 (50) Preventive Medicine - Heal/RechargeTime/Endurance

Level 47:    Tactics    
 (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff
 (48) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
 (48) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Recharge
 (48) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance/Recharge
 (50) Adjusted Targeting - Endurance/Recharge

Level 49:    Assault    
 (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 1:    Brawl    
 (A) Superior Blistering Cold - Recharge/Chance for Hold
 (13) Superior Blistering Cold - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge

Level 1:    Critical Hit    
Level 1:    Quick Form    
Level 1:    Prestige Power Dash    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Prestige Power Slide    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Prestige Power Quick    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Prestige Power Rush    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Prestige Power Surge    
 (A) Empty

Level 1:    Sprint    
 (A) Empty

Level 2:    Rest    
 (A) Empty

Level 4:    Ninja Run    
Level 10:    Shadow Recall    
 (A) Empty

Level 2:    Swift    
 (A) Run Speed IO

Level 2:    Health    
 (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance

Level 2:    Hurdle    
 (A) Jumping IO

Level 2:    Stamina    
 (A) Power Transfer - Chance to Heal Self
 (25) Power Transfer - Damage/Recharge
 (42) Power Transfer - Damage/Accuracy/Recharge/Endurance
 (42) Power Transfer - EndMod
 (43) Power Transfer - Damage/EndMod
 (43) Power Transfer - Damage/Accuracy/Endurance

Level 1:    Combo Level 1    
Level 1:    Combo Level 2    
Level 1:    Combo Level 3    
Level 10:    Defensive Adaptation    
Level 10:    Efficient Adaptation    
Level 10:    Offensive Adaptation    
Level 50:    Musculature Core Paragon    
Level 0:    Freedom Phalanx Reserve    
Level 0:    Portal Jockey    
Level 0:    Task Force Commander    
Level 0:    The Atlas Medallion    
------------

 

 

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by nihilii

[aethereal]

5 hours ago, nihilii said:

Which answers your next question: ATO goes in Crushing Uppercut. This makes Shin Breaker and Rib Cracker hard hitters half of the time.

 

I assume that's the best option, you're no slouch at this kind of thing, but it seems like a shame to not get your increased critical chances on the hardest hitting attack in your chain.

 

Does the proc last long enough to crit Moonbeam?  Is there a lockout period on the scrapper ATO the way there is on the stalker chance to hide one?

[nihilii]

I like getting the proc to boost smaller hitting attacks, so they clear a minion in one hit. CU itself will wipe a +4 lieut in one shot with Gaussian BU, or generally leave it with a sliver of health otherwise. It feels better to avoid overkill damage against anything that isn't a boss.

 

The recharge part of the ATO also ruins proc chances for smaller attacks. With their fast recharges, Shin Breaker and Rib Cracker would take a hit there. I've toyed with alternates and it resulted in significantly lower sustained DPS, so that settled the matter for me.

 

Slotted like that, it doesn't last long enough for Moonbeam. I think the duration is 3.25s, and SB + RC are less than 3.2s, but the proc starts activating during the power it's slotted in (I think Bopper had a spreadsheet tracking the "on hit" moment where procs trigger, which can be at any arbitrary point of the animation).

I'm following that guideline for most primaries: ATO in highest damage attack which generally can use the recharge, won't take too much of a proc % hit if at all, and turn your smaller attacks into pseudo T9s.

 

The Critical Strikes ATO has no lockout. Makes it very powerful indeed on primaries with longer casts. Rad Melee is probably the worst offender: ATO in Devastating Blow, crit on Moonbeam, crit on Radiation Siphon, add Radioactive Smash and that's a full cycle where half of your attacks have a near guaranteed crit.

[aethereal]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

The recharge part of the ATO also ruins proc chances for smaller attacks. With their fast recharges, Shin Breaker and Rib Cracker would take a hit there. I've toyed with alternates and it resulted in significantly lower sustained DPS, so that settled the matter for me.

If the proc didn't come with recharge, it'd probably be better in shin breaker.  The proc rate for 8 seconds recharge, 1.33s cast, 3PPM is 46%, so you'd expect to see essentially the same number of activations (since you use shin breaker twice as often as CU), and the effect would be better since it would get rib cracker and one of CU or Moonbeam, not rib cracker and shin breaker.  But the recharge component kills it.

 

This is the real problem with StJ -- it could really use a medium-hitter power with like a 10 or 12 second recharge time.

 

(And it's the problem with PPM: we're so strongly incented to want powers with very narrow ranges of recharge times.  Like everything below 10 seconds is useless, everything above 20 seconds is useless.)

Edited February 2, 2021 by aethereal