My Crazy Controller since Live - Grav/Storm

[VV]

Please take a gander at my Storm/Grav/Ice and see what you think. My main concern is proc placement. I am still not entirely clear on all the minutiae (said in Rocket's voice) of how to maximize those, especially with all the pseudo-pets. DoT's, too. And, I know she is seems kind of squishy.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 3.0.1.9
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/Hero-Designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Violeta V3 Ice: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lift -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(3), Dcm-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Dcm-Acc/Dmg(5)
Level 1: Gale -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A)
Level 2: Gravity Distortion -- SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(A), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(7), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(7), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(9)
Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 6: Propel -- Dcm-Acc/Dmg(A), Dcm-Dmg/Rchg(15), Dcm-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Dcm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(17), Dcm-Build%(17), FrcFdb-Rechg%(19)
Level 8: Crushing Field -- SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(A), PstBls-Acc/Dmg(19), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(21), PstBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), PstBls-Dam%(23), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 10: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 12: O2 Boost -- Pnc-Heal(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg(25), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux(27), Pnc-Heal/+End(27)
Level 14: Snow Storm -- PcnoftheT-Rng/Slow(A), PcnoftheT-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(29)
Level 16: Steamy Mist -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ags-Psi/Status(29), StdPrt-ResKB(31), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(31), LucoftheG-Def(31)
Level 18: Gravity Distortion Field -- UnbCns-Dam%(A), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(33), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(33), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(33), UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(34)
Level 20: Freezing Rain -- TchofLadG-DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-%Dam(34), TchofLadG-%Dam(34), ImpSwf-Dam%(36), PstBls-Dam%(36)
Level 22: Hurricane -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(A), DmpSpr-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(36)
Level 24: Hover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37), Rct-ResDam%(37)
Level 26: Wormhole -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(37), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(39), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(39), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(39), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(40)
Level 28: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 32: Singularity -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(40), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(40), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), ExpStr-Dam%(42)
Level 35: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 38: Lightning Storm -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Dmg(42), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Apc-Dam%(43), Apc-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 41: Tornado -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(45), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(45), SuddAcc--KB/+KD(46)
Level 44: Frozen Armor -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(46), ImpSki-Status(46), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(47)
Level 47: Ice Storm -- Rgn-Knock%(A), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(47), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(48), PstBls-Dam%(49)
Level 49: Tactics -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Jump-I(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), RgnTss-Regen+(11), Prv-Absorb%(11), Mrc-Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EffAdp-EndMod(A)
Level 1: Momentum 
Level 50: Ageless Total Core Invocation 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 14% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 14% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 14% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 14% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 14% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 14% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 14% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 14% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 6% Defense(Melee)
• 6% Defense(Smashing)
• 6% Defense(Lethal)
• 6% Defense(Fire)
• 6% Defense(Cold)
• 6% Defense(Energy)
• 6% Defense(Negative)
• 6% Defense(Psionic)
• 6% Defense(Ranged)
• 6% Defense(AoE)
• 4.5% Max End
• 4% Enhancement(Confused)
• 4% Enhancement(Held)
• 4% Enhancement(Stunned)
• 4.4% Enhancement(Terrorized)
• 8% Enhancement(Immobilized)
• 8% Enhancement(Sleep)
• 126.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 69% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• GrantPower Preventive Medicine (10% chance, if Scourge)
• 160.2 HP (15.76%) HitPoints
• Knockback (Mag -4)
• Knockup (Mag -4)
• MezResist(Confused) 55%
• MezResist(Held) 55%
• MezResist(Immobilized) 55%
• MezResist(Sleep) 55%
• MezResist(Stunned) 55%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 55%
• MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance)
• 18.5% (0.31 End/sec) Recovery
• 36% (1.53 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 20% ResEffect(SpeedFlying)
• 20% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
• 20% ResEffect(SpeedRunning)
• 8% Resistance(Smashing)
• 28.25% Resistance(Fire)
• 28.25% Resistance(Cold)
• 14% Resistance(Energy)
• 14% Resistance(Negative)
• 10.25% Resistance(Toxic)
• 15.25% Resistance(Psionic)
• 8% Resistance(Lethal)
  

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OPTIONAL JABBERING

 

Talk about CRAZY, I was one of the few to make a Grav/Storm way back during the pre-IO days. Funny enough, I chose the combo back then because it seemed to be the two most hated sets in the Controller AT. As a rebellious "youth", I wanted to prove to everyone that they could both be played without ruining everything. Little did I, or most others, know at the time how powerful a combo they made. Even back in the days before KB->KD IOs, you could rule the mobs without wrecking team play. Of course, nowadays it seems like one of the most popular combos around.

 

Anyway, many years later, here we are, and I am STILL tweaking this dang thing to get every erg of power out of it. First thing you might ask is, "why the HECK does a Grav/Storm/Ice need 196% global recharge bonus???" Well, you know how your grandparents or great grandparents went through the Great Depression and turned into hoarders? Well, I remember back when, even at max level we had to wait for powers to come back up. I remember when IO sets first came out and LotG +Recharges were like 2 billion Inf each. I remember spending hours and hours arbitraging to raise the funds to buy them. So, nowadays, it seems like I only know how to build for recharge, at the expense of most everything else.

 

Also, I clearly focus on damage more than control or debuff. Also a controversial habit I picked up back on Live. To me, it seems like the base durations of controls are plenty long, and what controllers really need to do is shore up their damage. As far as debuffing goes, well, dead is the best debuff. But, in most good teams, the stacking of all the debuffs from teammates adds up fast and weakens the opponents plenty. These days that is even more true with all the high speed steamrolling. Even at +4x8, most stuff melts away just from damage, so debuffs are even less needed. 

 

My main issue is that she might be too squishy to deal with AVs. I am thinking about making up a second build just for AV killing, one with plenty of durability. If anyone has a Grav/Storm AV killin' build handy, I'd love to see it.

[Coyote]

Even with procs, the damage from Crushing field is extremely mediocre. If you want AoE damage, do this instead:

1: drop one power. I'd suggest Snow Storm (with an AoE Immob, why are targets moving?)

2: move Tactics up, and get Frost Breath. Remove enough slots from Crushing Field so you can 6-slot Frost Breath.

2.1: slot Frost Breath with max damage procs, and then Centrioles. Look at the damage in Mid's and shed tears of joy. Then use Wormhole and Freezing Rain, and breathe on the mobs before they scatter, and those tears will turn into ice-cold diamonds of exhilaration. Especially when you follow up with Ice Storm and basically 2-shot everything but the Bosses.

3: Throw Tornado and LS at the Bosses while using Gravity's single-target damage.

NOW you're a hovering, freezing, death machine 😉

 

Yes, you should run a completely different build for AV soloing. For teaming against AVs, this should be fine... you have Freezing Rain, you can Immobilize them, you have good Recharge, and you can add some ST damage. On teams you shouldn't need high personal defenses. For soloing AVs, you will need personal defenses, but you won't need powers like O2 Boost and since you can use your normal build to get to the mission you can drop Fly/Afterburner and make room for the Fighting pool.

[VV]

On 2/10/2021 at 9:10 PM, Coyote said:

2.1: slot Frost Breath with max damage procs, and then Centrioles. Look at the damage in Mid's and shed tears of joy. Then use Wormhole and Freezing Rain, and breathe on the mobs before they scatter, and those tears will turn into ice-cold diamonds of exhilaration. Especially when you follow up with Ice Storm and basically 2-shot everything but the Bosses.

Wow! I never noticed how much damage Frost Breath does! Thanks for the tip

Edited February 14, 2021 by VV

[Akronos]

Hello VV.

 

Thanks for your build. I used it to create my own grav/storm/ice controller and changed it with Coyote tweaks and other very minor changes:

 

Spoiler

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Kepler Storm: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Gravity Control
Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Ice Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lift

• (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
• (36) Decimation - Damage/Endurance
• (36) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
• (37) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (37) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  

Level 1: Gale

• (A) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 2: Gravity Distortion

• (A) Superior Will of the Controller - Control Duration/Recharge
• (3) Superior Will of the Controller - Endurance/Recharge
• (3) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance
• (5) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Control Duration/Endurance/Recharge
• (11) Superior Will of the Controller - Recharge/Chance for Psionic Damage
• (43) Superior Will of the Controller - Accuracy/Control Duration
  

Level 4: Hasten

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (5) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 6: Propel

• (A) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage
• (7) Decimation - Damage/Recharge
• (7) Decimation - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
• (9) Decimation - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (9) Decimation - Chance of Build Up
• (11) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  

Level 8: Crushing Field

• (A) Superior Overpowering Presence - RechargeTime/Energy Font
  

Level 10: Fly

• (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)
  

Level 12: O2 Boost

• (A) Panacea - Heal
• (13) Panacea - Heal/Endurance
• (13) Panacea - Heal/Recharge
• (15) Panacea - Heal/Endurance/Recharge
• (15) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  

Level 14: Maneuvers

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 16: Steamy Mist

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (17) Aegis - Psionic/Status Resistance
• (17) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
• (34) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
• (36) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  

Level 18: Gravity Distortion Field

• (A) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
• (19) Unbreakable Constraint - Hold/Recharge
• (19) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Hold/Recharge
• (31) Unbreakable Constraint - Accuracy/Recharge
• (34) Unbreakable Constraint - Endurance/Hold
  

Level 20: Freezing Rain

• (A) Touch of Lady Grey - Defense Debuff
• (21) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage
• (21) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
• (23) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• (31) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
  

Level 22: Hurricane

• (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
• (23) Dampened Spirits - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
  

Level 24: Hover

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
• (25) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)
• (25) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
  

Level 26: Wormhole

• (A) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
• (27) Absolute Amazement - Stun/Recharge
• (27) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
• (29) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (29) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
• (31) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff
  

Level 28: Combat Jumping

• (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 30: Tactics

• (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up
  

Level 32: Singularity

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Damage/Endurance
• (33) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (34) Explosive Strike - Chance for Smashing Damage
  

Level 35: Hibernate

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
  

Level 38: Lightning Storm

• (A) Apocalypse - Damage
• (39) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
• (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (39) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
• (40) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
  

Level 41: Frost Breath

• (A) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
• (42) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
• (42) Bombardment - Chance for Fire Damage
• (42) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)
• (43) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
• (43) HamiO:Centriole Exposure
  

Level 44: Tornado

• (A) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Recharge
• (45) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage
• (45) Expedient Reinforcement - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (45) Expedient Reinforcement - Endurance/Damage/Recharge
• (46) Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown
  

Level 47: Ice Storm

• (A) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
• (47) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
• (47) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
• (48) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance
• (48) Ragnarok - Chance for Knockdown
• (48) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
  

Level 49: Frozen Armor

• (A) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP
• (50) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
• (50) Impervious Skin - Status Resistance
• (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  

Level 1: Containment 

Level 1: Brawl

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Celerity - +Stealth
  

Level 2: Rest

• (A) Empty
  

Level 2: Swift

• (A) Flight Speed IO
  

Level 2: Hurdle

• (A) Jumping IO
  

Level 2: Health

• (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
• (37) Regenerative Tissue - +Regeneration
• (40) Preventive Medicine - Chance for +Absorb
• (40) Miracle - +Recovery
  

Level 2: Stamina

• (A) Efficacy Adaptor - EndMod
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

• (A) Empty
  

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

• (A) Empty
  

Level 4: Ninja Run 

Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Storm Elemental Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment 
------------

 

I'd like your opinion about it, thanks.

 

[Vulpoid]

How do you folks feel about  a Sudden Acceleration - Knockback to Knockdown into Singularity as well?

[Doomguide2005]

On 4/10/2021 at 2:38 PM, Akronos said:

 

I'd like your opinion about it, thanks.

 

     I'm not @Coyoteor @VV and have no internet outside this phone to look at or download the build but a few thoughts (and a question or three).

     Two big questions -> 1) what's your final hit chance in Mids with something like Frost Breath (no accuracy enhancement in the power itself)?  I'm thinking it's solid owing to global accuracy plus Tactics but ... and 2) What's your net endurance recovery (I'm seeing a lot of toggles with weak endred slotting.

    No expert on procs and opinions vary but I thought the consensus was procs in Freezing Rain was 'meh, not worth it'.  Owing in part to largish AoE and pseudopets yielding poor chance to proc (initial cast and once every 10 seconds thereafter).  I do know I'd want the recharge high enough to readily drop one on every spawn.

    Gale -> Perhaps a KB to KD IO in Gale (and how's its final hit chance?) in addition to the FF proc.

     O2 Boost -> if I'm not mistaken the Panacea proc is better off in an auto power (it's a proc120) while the Preventative Medicine special works in any power (it's kind of an odd duck conditional 'global' IO that doesn't act as a set bonus).  So probably 6 slot Preventative Medicine in O2 Boost and move the Panacea proc to Health.  But I could be mistaken and would recommend a second opinion on how the PM special in particular works.

     Maneuvers (and Steamy Mist, Tactics) -> toggles using endurance without endred slotted.  Can't tell if +recovery, +endurance is there to support the usage without Incarnate ability support or not.  Moving the Panacea to Health and adding a Performance Shifter proc to Stamina would help.  The 5th slot of Preventative Medicine also has a hefty endurance usage discount bonus.  I didn't mention it before but the Regenerative Tissue proc is of dubious value (more value in a higher health AT typically) and could easily be traded out for the Panacea proc so as to not use another slot.  Mids could give you a better idea on just how much regen it actually nets for the build.

 

The large yawns I'm developing tell me I should stop before I type something stoopid.  Back later.

     

[Coyote]

7 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

1) what's your final hit chance in Mids with something like Frost Breath (no accuracy enhancement in the power itself)?

 

For Frost Breath specifically, it has a 90% base chance instead of 75% (so effectively a 1.2 Accuracy multiplier). It's usually pretty accurate with Tactics and some set bonuses, by the time a character is high enough level to get it.

[Doomguide2005]

2 hours ago, Coyote said:

 

For Frost Breath specifically, it has a 90% base chance instead of 75% (so effectively a 1.2 Accuracy multiplier). It's usually pretty accurate with Tactics and some set bonuses, by the time a character is high enough level to get it.

     Thanks, I suspected it was not an issue.  From a glance @Akronos has ~54% global accuracy in their build and I probably missed a bonus or two.  Gale is less accurate but even there I'm thinking with Tactics running hitting shouldn't be an issue.  I'm less confident if they have to turn it off due to end running low however.  Dropping a Kismet in CJ might not be a bad idea to counter losing Tactics for whatever reason.  Endurance (and missing) on a team is also a bit less critical or likely as other buffs are more likely around.

     Other small stuff - I see 8 pts kb protection which I generally view as 4 pts too much or 4 pts too little.  I usually aim for 4 on my support AT's.  Doubly true when they have enough stealth to stand within a spawn without drawing attention which almost always includes my Stormies (Stealth IO + Steamy Mists is pretty much 'you can't see me' amounts outside special cases) which in turn means I get to decide who and what to hit with my alpha after which as a controller they aren't fighting back.  I'd swap out a -kb IO for a Slow resist IO.  Then again I build for lots of recharge on my controllers and view mez them first as my primary form of mitigation.

     Full disclosure it has been a long, long time since I used Gravity and never got them to 50 but does Wormhole actually benefit from KB to KD.  I see CoD has it listed as 14.54 mag kb but I don't recall see it flinging bodies everywhere.  More a relatively neat collection of stunned foes, I see it in VV's Wormhole as well so makes me curious if I'm remembering incorrectly or what's up.  On the other hand the AA to hit debuff proc IO is likely a waste.  Can't find the duration of the debuff but I'm almost certain it is much shorter than the duration of the stun especially vs minions and Lts that'll be subject to the Teleport.   Or maybe the Wormhole users I saw were just good about where they placed them, into corners for example.  And in the case of a Storm there's always the option to use/toggle on Hurricane for its debuff rather than worry about the AA proc.

 

Hope some of my meandering thoughts helps refine your build.

[Carnifax]

Yes, kb2kd makes a huge difference. Wormhole sends them flying away from you otherwise.

 

With a kb2kd it becomes a "I got you these" power for that Tank/Brute/AoE Death Machine on your team whom you have a crush on.

 

Plus it doesn't alert now either so you can throw other spawns into the mosh pit (really useful with debuff patches / Creepers / Rains / Oil Slicks) and be sure they don't go flying backwards out of it.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Carnifax

[Doomguide2005]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:01 PM, Carnifax said:

Yes, kb2kd makes a huge difference. Wormhole sends them flying away from you otherwise.

 

With a kb2kd it becomes a "I got you these" power for that Tank/Brute/AoE Death Machine on your team whom you have a crush on.

 

Plus it doesn't alert now either so you can throw other spawns into the mosh pit (really useful with debuff patches / Creepers / Rains / Oil Slicks) and be sure they don't go flying backwards out of it.

Good to know.  It was probably the way it was used by my team mates then.  Unless there's a hole in the graphics walls and corners  pretty much prevents further kb.